Chum Kiu Body Mass/Pivoting

[marcelino31]

Where is the central axis when pivoting in chum kiu. How does the theory of pivoting relate to putting your body mass behind your movements?

[S.Teebas]

Where is the central axis when pivoting in chum kiu.

Its your centre of gravity. This spot varies from person to person because everyones body is shaped and weighted differently in different places.


How does the theory of pivoting relate to putting your body mass behind your movements?

That's the place to initiate your movements from.

[Alpha Dog]

Should you be leaning back when you pivot?

[Grabula]

dog runs with tail between legs ;) If you lean back when you pivot then you waste energy and your core is not as centered as it could be.

[Alpha Dog]

Originally posted by Grabula
If you lean back when you pivot then you waste energy and your core is not as centered as it could be.

Centered where?

What about Biu Ji? How do you shift there? Is the key to WC having a centered core? If so, how?

[Grabula]

Centered where?

thats the real question isn't it?


What about Biu Ji?

at some point you need to learn to do it well outside of the wingchun box. First however, you must be able to work within the box well.


Is the key to WC having a centered core?

one of many keys....

[Alpha Dog]

Originally posted by Grabula



at some point you need to learn to do it well outside of the wingchun box. First however, you must be able to work within the box well.




What is the Wing Chun box? Is Biu Ji outside of it? Wow, you are beginning to really impress me with your knowledge of Wing Chun!

[S.Teebas]

Why dont you tell us what you think alpha dog? Im interested in hearing your opinion.

[Grabula]

I call the basics the wingchun "box" because those basics are the most important aspects of wingchun. Those things we should develop first and foremost. Once those are established then you can wander outside of the box, free your mind so to speak "do it without doing it." ;)

[Alpha Dog]

Originally posted by S.Teebas
Why dont you tell us what you think alpha dog? Im interested in hearing your opinion.

Sure. Wing Chun doesn't fit into a nice neat little box.

Your turn.

[flaco]

some masters say that biu gee is used in emergencies, it means that you should be able to handle all situations with snt and chum kiu, but when you have lost your line, use biu gee to regain your line.

thrusting fingers is a fals representation, after all, you have a thrusting fingers strike in snt and in chum kiu

your questions and answers will vary from lineages, so im interested in hearing answers.

some lineages turn on the toes,the heel slides, and the toes are nailed to the floor, and one foot shifts at a time, other guys will shift on the heels, and the toes slide from side to side, these people will say that by shifting both feet at once, and on the heels, the central axis line is never lost,and the body turns as one unit,
the previous lineage will say that if you hit of push someone shifting on both feet at once, on the heels, that you can easily knock them off balance, and its better to shift one leg ata time.

so its a hard call, i personally practice both, and i feel that one way is better in some situations, and worse in others

[Alpha Dog]

Good reply, thanks.

I have heard people say that about Biu Ji, that it isn't "really" part of the core teachings. I don't believe it, though. In my mind, it is part of the system, and it dispells a lot of the so-called "truths" about WC you can hear/read about.

This isn't to say that people who don't know it aren't good or that they are incompetent -- I am only saying that WC is about principles, not mere techniques or didactic phraseology. Once those principles are ingrained in you, you can do whatever you want; to learn those principles, you have to be free of the mindset that says "WC is about learning these things -- learn them and you know Wing Chun."

I don't take credit for this idea. It's been explained to me. And I believe it.

[marcelino31]

Originally posted by S.Teebas


Its your centre of gravity. This spot varies from person to person because everyones body is shaped and weighted differently in different places.



Hello Teebas,

In chum kiu, the center of gravity (within the body) is what a beginner learns when doing chum kiu shifting, but as they become more advanced the central line extends outward further (outside the body) and its around this line that the chum kiu pivoting is performed.

regards..

[marcelino31]

An interesting example where is the center of gravity of a donut with a hole in the middle?

[S.Teebas]

Hi marcelino31,

I agree about what you said with regards to the advance stages of pivoting. I understand what you are staying. But I think you’re discounting the pivoting within the body to a degree.
The internal pivoting is still important to practice no matter what skill you are at. Why? Because as you progress in WC your body will change its shape constantly (not grossly, but it will change). Not just due to age and eating habits, but also in relation to skill. If your understanding of structure and relaxation increases; inevitably you will make slight/intricate adjustments. As your structure changes, so too will your centre of gravity.
This exersice will help you find you true (and new) COG.



An interesting example where is the center of gravity of a donut with a hole in the middle?

My guess would be where the hole is??

[marcelino31]

Correct, Good Guess!

[Grabula]

It sounds like Alpha Dog is finally starting to catch up!

[Alpha Dog]

Originally posted by Grabula
It sounds like Alpha Dog is finally starting to catch up!

Shouldn't you be out sparring? LOL

[Grabula]

I am! ;) Inside this little grey box. I like the "LOL" at the end though, good touch.

hehe, Bruce Alphadog sez - "You do not hit, IT hits." and "A wingchun man is not, and wingchun, is not." But may favorite from the "Tao of Alpha Doggieness: has to be "Wingchun is not skill, it just is." ;)

[Alpha Dog]

You don't have a clue, do you?

[Grabula]

I have one - "I am only saying that WC is about principles, not mere techniques or didactic phraseology."

but I am a slow learner, thorough to be sure but slow. Right now unfortunately I believe wingchun is like any other art a "system" of fighting. However the "Tao" of your oneness is slowly teaching me that wingchun is not or is it?!

[Alpha Dog]

Ask your Sifu, if you have one. Otherwise, keep sparring. You'll be better at that than Wing Chun for the rest of your life.

[Grabula]

ah but Sifu Alpha Dog, I learn much from the Tao of Alpha Doggieness! I must empty my mind and my body and become one with the wingchun, become nothing!

[Alpha Dog]

Originally posted by Grabula
ah but Sifu Alpha Dog, I learn much from the Tao of Alpha Doggieness! I must empty my mind and my body and become one with the wingchun, become nothing!

Become nothing? Who says you aren't already there? LMAO

[Grabula]

AHHA! I learn something from the Tao everyday!

[Alpha Dog]

Sorry kid, but real Wing Chun isn't for dummies. Stick to sparring.

[Grabula]

I see the wisdom, "sticking" to sparring...very subtle