Bruce Lee questions.

[rogue]

I've noticed that on the net many people refer to Mr Lee by his first name, Bruce. Were all these people that close to him?

Why are there still people that don't believe Bruce Lee was, and still would be today, the worlds greatest fighter?

When will the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences finally recognize Mr Lee's performance in Enter the Dragon with an award?

If Bruce Lee was still alive today what would you ask him?:confused:

[Serpent]

Jeeezus! Enough with the Bruce Lee sh!t already. He is probably about the most over-hyped and over-rated martial artist in MA history!

He was bloody quick, that's all. His form was bad, his fighting system incomplete and he was the worst role model due to his over-training, which eventually killed him.

He was a novelty, that's all. Sure, he did great things to raise awareness of kung fu in the west, but puh-leeeeeze!

[Ben Gash]

1, the price of fame
2, because there is no evidence to support this
3, because it was some terrible acting
4, do you think you missed the point?

[rogue]

Serpent, you really must read The Tao of JKD". Even Bruces notes show more insight into the martial arts than many grand masters. Also the commenteries are very good.

[shaolin kungfu]

Serpent, you really must read The Tao of JKD". Even Bruces notes show more insight into the martial arts than many grand masters. Also the commenteries are very good.

Hardly. It is a good read and he did have good idea's, but to say that he knows more than many grandmasters is false.

[rogue]

Ben, I'm talking about Bruces acting, not John Saxons.

[bung bo]

i think many many people refer to him as Bruce because Mr. Lee would be very confusing as Lee is a very common asian name.

the WORLD'S greatest fighter? that encompasses a lot of martial artists. Jkd isn't always better than any given classical style.

not to sound disrespectful to him or you

[Serpent]

Originally posted by rogue
Serpent, you really must read The Tao of JKD". Even Bruces notes show more insight into the martial arts than many grand masters. Also the commenteries are very good.

I own that book. In some ways it's very interesting, but I had issue with a lot of what was said. He was a great thinker and philosopher, he was a great innovator with exercise and anatomical training. But that doesn't make him a "great martial artist".

Over-rated in every way just about.

[rogue]

but to say that he knows more than many grandmasters is false You really should read "Striking Thoughts: Bruce Lee's Wisdom for Daily Living". It'll influence your life like it has mine.

Use 50 pound test.


Excerpted from Striking Thoughts: Bruce Lee's Wisdom for Daily Living by Bruce Lee, John Little. Copyright © 2000. Reprinted by permission. All rights reserved
The Mind


An intelligent mind is constantly learning. -
An intelligent mind is one which is constantly learning, never concluding - styles and patterns have come to conclusion, therefore they [have] ceased to be intelligent.


An intelligent mind is an inquiring mind -
An intelligent mind is an INQUIRING mind. It is not satisfied with explanations, with conclusions; nor is it a mind that believes, because belief is again another form of conclusion.


The qualities of mind -
To be one thing and not to change is the climax of STILLNESS. To have nothing in one that resists is the climax of EMPTINESS. To remain detached from all outside things is the climax of FINENESS. To have in oneself no contraries is the climax of PURITY.

You are the commander of your mind -
I've always been buffeted by circumstances because I thought of myself as a human being [affected by] outside conditioning. Now I realize that I am the power that commands the feeling of my mind and from which circumstances grow.

To free the mind -
In order that the mind may function naturally and harmoniously it must be freed from all attachment to oppositional notions. The mind should be freed from the influence of the external world. To let the mind take its course unhindered among phenomena. Not the cultivated innocence of a clever mind that wants to be innocent, but that state of innocence in which there is no denial or acceptance, and in which the mind just sees what is.

[Laughing Cow]

Bruce Lee.

He was a great Martial Artist, if he was the best or not is naturally open to debate.
To be honest I think he simply was something so new that hit the west that it took everybody by surpise.

I can't think any other great martial artist off-hand that went by the name of "Bruce" and reached similar popularity levels, thus the "Bruce" references.
Alos many people kinda idolise him and try to indentify with him thus "Bruce".

I don't think that he will ever be honored with an academy award, his Hollywood career was too short bad his movies and acting live a lot to be desired.

What would I ask him.

I would ask him about his youth and why there are so many conflicting stories about his early life and MA studies.

[Ben Gash]

Bruce Lee did have some interesting ideas. How ever, too often he added 2 and 2 and got 5. The thing that sums up Bruce Lee for me is this saying (from Tao of Gung Fu)
Before I started MA, a punch was just a punch and a kick was just a kick.
When I started martial arts a punch was no longer just a punch and a kick no longer just a kick
Now that I've done martial arts for some time, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick.

It is here that I think Bruce Lee missed the point. After only 5 years of patchy training and then working out on his own for a wjile, he decided that WC was a "classical mess", when according to this line of thought he just wasn't good enough at it.
His acting in ETD was bad, it only seems OK because the others were so bad.

[rogue]

I think his movies are greatly underrated. Many fly against the surf of the conventional movie, but if you look under the surface they sometimes touch the deep sea and you can net some insight into the man.

[Ben Gash]

wjile. You didn't know he was Dutch did you :D
Bruce Lee's films contained bad acting, dreadful stereotypes and often some pretty shabby fighting.

[Laughing Cow]

I compare his movies to the rest of the movies coming out of Asia at that time.

Considering that at the same time Jackie Chan and similar names were already in the industry.

As for his teachings and insights, to be honest, I find them not to be anything unique or unobtainable from other sources.
Many of the things he said kinda remind me of things we are taught in TJQ and other arts.
And there is still plenty more not revealed to me yet.

Like I said for many he was the first and thus holds an exalted position.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by rogue
I think his movies are greatly underrated. Many fly against the surf of the conventional movie, but if you look under the surface they sometimes touch the deep sea and you can net some insight into the man.

Give me a break. The most innovative thing he worked on was The Silent Flute (called something different in the US... Circel Of Iron or something like that?) Shame that Carradine ended up playing the teacher, but still a great movie. It would have been really interesting to see him in that role.

But I maintain - he's over rated as a martial artist, as an actor and as a philosopher, though his philosophy was probably his strongest attribute.

[shaolin kungfu]

I'm tired of people holding him up as the messiah, the savior of martial arts come to free us from "classical mess". He was very good, probably not the best, and had some nice idea's, nothing more.

P.S. While not the worst actor I've seen, he really isn't "award winning".

[PHILBERT]

If I could ask him one question if he were alive, it'd be "How'd ya get out of your grave?"

Second
"What did you think of that God awful Dragon movie they did on your life?"

[Serpent]

I'd ask him why he didn't do something about the headaches. Like quit overtraining.

[Repulsive Monkey]

You're joking right???
Bruce Lee the best fighter in the world, how droll.
He at one point was the most famous just because he broke Hollywood but he was never ever the best fighter, where did you get that idea from???

If I could ask him a question it would be :
Why did you make such a wrong turn in life (at the begining of it) by giving up internal martial arts and settling for what you ended up with, with it's limitations?

[Repulsive Monkey]

I've nothing against him, but I've read a few of his books and they're awfull, quite childish in parts and under researched especially the one where he talks about Taiji masters.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i think rouge has spunked his funny juice over all of you.

[cho]

Originally posted by Laughing Cow
Considering that at the same time Jackie Chan and similar names were already in the industry.

Although Jackie Chan was doing movies at the same time, he was only a stuntman. He became a star a few years after Bruce died. At first Lo Wei (crappy director for Chinese Connection) put Jackie through some awful films like "New Fist of Fury".

As a cma, I've never seen Bruce fight for real, but he is fast. As a movie star, well, I put Jackie above him. Chan at least did his own stunts. The part in Enter the Dragon where Bruce does the flips over the monks holding their hands is actually doubled by Yuen Wah.

[Mr Punch]

hmmmmmmm

mesmerised by Shaolin Kungfu's avatar...

WTF were you all blathering about...?

[Rurouni Kenshi]

my opinion is bruce lee can be considered as the best inovator in the domain of external martial art. and also nobody did as much reasearch as he did. however, bruce lee was quite impatient and energic character, he didnt beleived in internal power, and that's why he found some limit in wingchun.
he highly respected wingchun and his master, but when he had to fight in america to keep his dojo open, he saw that using his wingchum was too slow to end the fight and that he used too much energy, after the fight, he was exhausted.

that's at this moment that he begin to evolve toward totaly external art and study boxing.

however his work is incomplet, i think it is a great eye opener for any martial adept, internal or external because he was one of the most dedicate fighter of his time.

[chen zhen]

just to get away from the bashing..
Rogue, you study TKD, right?
then look at this picture, it's TKD grandmaster Jhoon Rhee, posing with BL. That might make you **** yourself in sheer happiness:p ;)

just playin;)

[rogue]

The Resiliance Of Lee's Legacy
Thanks chen zhen that is an amazing picture. I'm always taken by the resiliance of Lee's legacy. The man has been dead for decades but he is still a major influence on all martial artists, though some might not care to admit to it. Can anybody name another old master, which truth be told Bruce Lee is obviously one, who has come close to having a legacy like Bruce Lee's?

In regards to Bruce Lee only training in WC for a short time I think that worked in his favor. Training for a short time kept him from getting lost in the nit-picking of details that many in the art get lost in.

Serpent a book you might want to check out is "The Art of Expressing the Human Body, Volume 4 (Bruce Lee Library)". It gives many details of Bruce Lee's workout.

Use the 100 pound test.

Peace

[chen zhen]

Jhoon Rhee is credited for teaching BL the kicks he made famous in his movies, like the jumping sidekick, and the spinning hook kick. So your art TKD has also had an influence on the image of Bruce Lee.
:)

[Repulsive Monkey]

I can't give you any names who lived up to and equlalled Lee's legacy but the very least I can do is give you a list of people who surpassed his legacy:

Yang Lu-chan
Yang Chian-huo
Yang Cheng-fu
Fu Zhong-wen
Cheng Man-Ching
Chi Chiang-tao
Benjamin Pang-lo
Willian C.C. Chen
T.T. Liang
Chen Wei-ming
Tian Zhao-ling

do you want an exstensively list or what?

Even all of the above's minor student's have a greater legacy than Bruce Lee.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by chen zhen
Jhoon Rhee is credited for teaching BL the kicks he made famous in his movies, like the jumping sidekick, and the spinning hook kick. So your art TKD has also had an influence on the image of Bruce Lee.
:)


But... that can't be taekwondo. Jhoon Rhee has his hands up!

Sarcasm. It's what's for dinner.

[MasterKiller]

Rouge,

If your so sold on Bruce, why not study JKD instead of TKD?

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
I can't give you any names who lived up to and equlalled Lee's legacy but the very least I can do is give you a list of people who surpassed his legacy:

Yang Lu-chan
Yang Chian-huo
Yang Cheng-fu
Fu Zhong-wen
Cheng Man-Ching
Chi Chiang-tao
Benjamin Pang-lo
Willian C.C. Chen
T.T. Liang
Chen Wei-ming
Tian Zhao-ling

do you want an exstensively list or what?

Even all of the above's minor student's have a greater legacy than Bruce Lee.


By what criteria?

I'm not much of a Bruce Lee lover myself, but this list is a bit meaningless without criteria.

[rogue]

If your so sold on Bruce, why not study JKD instead of TKD? A while back I was lured, hooked and reeled into a bad school like a fish into a chum bucket. I'm not going to carp about it but I'm still learning what is useful.

I use the 100 pound test.

[Robinf]

Apowen said: But... that can't be taekwondo. Jhoon Rhee has his hands up!

Actually, that's Jhoon Rhee's style--upright, fists up by the jaw for protection, at all times. Jhoon Rhee is another innovator who developed his own system once he had learned the traditional system in Korea.

Personally, about Bruce Lee. I'd like to know what he would think of his own statements now. We all change as we get older. He was robbed of growing up.

I give a lot of credit to Bruce Lee for fighting so hard to make it in Hollywood and for opening his school to the public. I say I owe my freedom to train in martial arts in part because of his work.

I also give him a lot of credit for the movies he made--good action. He, unfortunately, perpetuated a stereotype of Asians being good for only one thing in movies--fighting with martial arts. He didn't open any dramatic or comedic doors for Asians in the movies. But, he did help break open a genre of movies that is enjoyable.

[apoweyn]

Robin,

Just to be clear, I was being sarcky. I trained in taekwondo for five years. And while I frequently ignored that advice, I was actually taught to keep my hands up when kicking.

:)

[Dark Knight]

Can anybody name another old master, which truth be told Bruce Lee is obviously one, who has come close to having a legacy like Bruce Lee's?

Kano.

Miyagi

Funakoshi

Their legacys pass Bruces substantially.

And as far as Bruce being the greatest fighter, who did he fight to prove this?

Dont forget that Gene Labelle took him down on the set of the Green Hornet.

(Add Gene to that list)

[KC Elbows]

Man Rogue, I'm absolutely amazed.

Let's see, longtime member, Bruce Lee thread. What could that mean?

Really, this is impressive in it's sheer repetition. And your posts are cracking me up.

Were I to judge this thread just on the first post, it would be a mere 1.0, but the consistency of your sarcasm, and the nature of your mock fan-boyishness is astounding.

GDA is absolutely correct.


As for overtraining killing Bruce, why is it that everyone's death/sickness must be somehow related to their training, and used to slam their kung fu? Might I point out that all the kung fu practitioners in the world are either dead or on their way to dying? Can't people just kick off without it being due to their "improper fa jing"?

But, more importanty, Rogue, can you tell us more about what you feel Bruce Lee contributed to the history of film?:D

[rogue]

But, more importanty, Rogue, can you tell us more about what you feel Bruce Lee contributed to the history of film?

I could go into how Bruce succesfully blended the story telling styles of Richard Brooks, Elia Kazan, Frank Capra, Michael Curtiz, Cecil B. DeMille, Edward Dmytryk, Howard Hawks, John Huston, Raoul Walsh and William Wyler with the pacing and cinematography of Kurosawa. The amazing thing is he didn't direct and managed this with just his skills as a thespian. Sometimes the actor just inspires the director to push his bounderies.

I could write more but it'd be very long and a little off of the threads main theme. I may post it on the JKD forum later.

[MasterKiller]

I hope he's joking.

He's joking, right?

C'mon, tell me he's joking.

[rogue]

Also, on page two I came up with a title I really liked and may use it on it's own thread. Does it read OK? :confused:

The Resiliance Of Lee's Legacy

[ZIM]

In regards to Bruce Lee only training in WC for a short time I think that worked in his favor. Training for a short time kept him from getting lost in the nit-picking of details that many in the art get lost in. Thats what he meant by the 'classical mess', IMO. I tend to think that, if he were still alive, many of his previous positions would be re-interpreted by him... so: 'classical mess' becomes: nitpicking, loiniage arguments, missing the point; 'take what works' would become 'simplify your techniques' a la internal styles, etc. BL would've prolly gravitated towards the internal as time passed. And I think he would've been good.

He would also now be a director...:)

[KC Elbows]

Yes, Rogue, an excellent title, just the way it is.

So, you don't see any influence of Orson Wells in BL's films?

[Robinf]

Apowen,

I know you were being sarcastic, but I wanted to clear that up for those who don't know TKD that Jhoon Rhee has his own style.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Robinf
Apowen,

I know you were being sarcastic, but I wanted to clear that up for those who don't know TKD that Jhoon Rhee has his own style.

Well, that was an education for me too. And I do (did) know taekwondo. So cheers Robin.


Stuart B.

[shaolin kungfu]

Noooooo! We've been trolled!

[chen zhen]

You can add Gin Foon Mark (SPM grandmaster) to the list, as you can among other things can see here:

http://www.members.aol.com/martyeisen/mantis/Lee.htm

[Ben Gash]

Wong Fei Hung
Chan Heung
Kuo Yu Cheong (who's descendant promted the development of JKD)
Tan Sam
Liu Yun Qiao
Bruce Lee was by no means the first or only person to teach non Chinese (and the fight with Wong Jak Man wasn't about that).
Kurosawa's cinematography? Now I know you're trolling.

[chen zhen]

Gin Foon Mark
Lee Koon Hung
Ma Xianda
etc etc
(other modern MA'tists who're non-CMA):
the Gracies
Cung Le, etc etc

hundreds of modern MA'tists are on (at least! and higher) as high levels BL was (can you even call him high-level? I dont think so), and they did'nt have to reject the so-called "classical mess".

i guess the point is understood, after all these posts:cool:

Ben Gash: what does Kuo Yu Cheong have to do with JKD?

[rogue]

Chen thanks for the picture of Lee and Rhee, it's now my wallpaper.

Sadly I think everybody is still trying to catch up to where Bruce Lee was when he died. He was the total package.

Shaolin kungfu, hooked ya!

[Ben Gash]

Chen Zen, Wong Jak Man is a practitioner of Kuo Yu Cheong's Bak Sil Lum.

[rogue]

Ben, are you familiar with an animal stylist named Hu Jak Man, and is he relatd to Wong Jak Man?

[Ben Gash]

Yes, his wolverine fist is superb, but I've not got the resolve to get the adamantium implants :D

[chen zhen]

I see what you mean now, Ben Gash, with the Kuo Yo Cheong.

Rogue: cool pic, huh? I'll try to find some more of those with Rhee and Lee.

[cho]

In America, at least, Bruce Lee is held very high. Come on, he's a "household name". Most Americans would think of kung fu when they hear "Bruce Lee", but how many know Cung Le or Lee Koon Hung.

Most Americans actually think Wong Fei Hung is a fictional character brought to life by Jet Li (which annoys the hell out of me). They say,"people can't fly!" or some other crap.

[rogue]

Thanks Chen, that'd be cool.:cool:


Most Americans actually think Wong Fei Hung is a fictional character brought to life by Jet Li (which annoys the hell out of me). They say,"people can't fly!" or some other crap. And that's where Bruce Lee has an edge, he wasn't some character in a movie. What Lee did was real.

[Ben Gash]

What Wong Fei Hung did was real. Rogue, I can't believe you're trolling like this.
Anyway, Bruce Lee was a character in a film: The man-the myth, the legend, Dragon, No retreat no surrender.

[rogue]

It's what happens when I'm working all these hours trying to get this project done.:D

We haven't had a good trolling here in a dogs age. :p I'll stop now.

[Ben Gash]

If you want to troll, go to the WC forum. The responses are so much more OTT :D

[rogue]

But the WC forum is easy and I wanted a challenge. ;)
I was shocked anybody took it seriously from the get go. Then even more shocked that nobody caught on even after I left all those subtle fishing clues about. I think it went wrong when ap gave an intelligent response early on.:p

[Ryu]

Ben Gash, your avatar is the best thing since sliced bread! :D


Now to the post.

ROCK ON!!! Another Bruce Lee argument thread!! :D
Well guys you all know I can ask the guy personally for you! :) We all remember my trademark phonecalls to Bruc....uh...I mean Mr. Lee :)

Just wait here.....I'll get him.


*Ryu dials up*

(Phone rings)
*ring ring ring...*

*ring ring ring*

(Someone picks up on the other line, Bruce's voice seems to be trailed off in the opposite direction)

Bruce: (faintly off in the distance) ....it'll be a minute. Yeah, you know man, it was rewarding, you know? Just hold on a second...
(louder) Hello?

Ryu: :D HEY!!!! Guess who it is???!

Bruce: (tone changes from happy to tired) Oh no....not you...

Ryu: Hey B...uh...Mr. Lee, we were wondering why some people still don't think you were and would be the best martial artist of all time? What do you think?

Bruce: Didn't you already ask me that kind of thing several times?

Ryu: NO! This time it's different. Well? :D What do you think?

Bruce: What does that mean? The best Martial Artist in the world? There is what? 4-5 billion people on earth at any one given time? People being born every 5-10 seconds? Man, its an illusion....it's something that the public calls you you know? Like the word, "superstar" man... it's a crystalization.
I'm not the best martial artist in the world. I'm the best martial artists Bruce Lee could have become. Does that settle it?

Ryu: Oh :confused: Well I suppose....are you sure you aren't the best fighter in the universe?? hands down??

Bruce: (snickering) I'm pretty sure I think...

Ryu: Okay, well let's talk about movies! Asian roles, Asian strereotypes, kung fu!

Bruce: (seems to get more serious and interested) Well you know, that was a big part you know? The Asian thing I mean...
You see, at that time, right...they uh... well Hollywood didn't really show anything...noble of the Oriental. I mean it was all pig tails and chop chop, bouncing around. The guys were all subservients...the girls..same thing, very docile....objects really. Hell, even in some Hong Kong movies! But here in the West...there was almost no other way of seeing them. I disliked that a lot....that was a big part of my acting. I wanted to show the Asian....the Chinese especially was just as good, strong, and deep as anyone else. I wanted to portray Asians in a different way....very strong. Very adapted to the western culture too. You know?

Ryu: Yeah. Wanted to really take out that docile kowtowing image in Hollywood. That's why the fighter role was so important to you, huh?

Bruce: Exactly man, but you know I think I accidently started another stereotype while trying to break up the others.

Ryu: The martial arts Asian, huh? :)

Bruce: (humourously) Yeah man...you know, now I can't even turn on TV without some Asian guy kicking around you know? But I think the stereotypes of Asians are coming back...

Ryu: I know what you mean. The MA Asian is a big one...some of the films are really treating Asian women bad too....

Bruce: I know. I've seen a few things. I really don't like it...it's unfortunate. Especially since in Asia there's really wonderful movies that have nothing to do with action, MA, or these other things...

Ryu: Hey, what do you think about your acting in your movies?
There's a lot of guys who say you weren't a good actor....

Bruce: (laughs) Well I wasn't that bad! Like I said, I had ulterior motives...I wanted my acting to mean something. I had a point with all the things I did. You know it was a good time. I enjoyed every minute of it. I admit that some of the films were somewhat amateurish..... my first one was not that good. It broke all box offices of course, but I could have done better. Enter the Dragon....was....well it was my first American film. I tried to do what I could to keep the stereotypes down, but.....Hollywood is hard.... I could have tried harder. Way of the Dragon was good though. That one was my baby!

Ryu: I like that one too! Hey, this conversation got a bit serious....huh....usually I'm bugging the hell out of you.

Bruce: You still bug the hell out of me.

Ryu: Okay, well I guess that's all I had..... OH OH wait.... I'm supposed to ask you something too.

Bruce: Ask me what?

Ryu: uh......... I don't know. "If he were alive, what would you ask him?" Well........ actually, I don't have anything else to ask. :)

Bruce: Don't always look for your answers outside of yourself, you know? Okay, well I've got to go. Tell everyone to stop giving me "parades" man... I hope....okay? I "Hope" ........that people can look past just my martial art. There's more to life than that.
We're human beings man...there's so many levels. I hope that people can at least.....see "why" I was doing what I was doing. My passions you know? Not just learning to fight.
It' like I say man....Jeet Kune Do is not for knocking the hell out of the guy in front of you.....it's for knocking the hell out of your own ego....your hangups, and such.

Ryu: Thanks Mr. Lee. I think that helped.

Bruce: Call me Bruce. Talk later. Bye.

*phone hangs up...*

[chen zhen]

.. But I don't think he was as modest as you portray him there.. he was bragging a lot of the time.
But as someone who knew him said, he never bragged about something he could'nt do:D

[yenhoi]

If I was going to judge bruce lee I would take a look at his students, and their kung-fu.

...but the only people I judge are those panzy-ass TKD peeps and pagan-ass grapplers.

...and I dont see how someone can spew off a random-ass list of random-nobodys that most of us havent even heard about, and say their legacy matches that of a pop-star. Its not true. Most of Bruce Lee is in his entertainment image - and if Ryu was here he would call bruce Lee and school you spanks concerning Bruce Lee and his goals as a martial artist and his very seperate agenda concerning his movie career and his on-going battle with racist white pigs like myself in America and the rest of the world.

:eek:

[chen zhen]

:(


kinda see your point..

[greendragon]

Something no one has mentioned so far on this thread is the context of the times. Go back over 30 years and take another look. MA movies were incoherent. BL was ahead of his time in the idea of cross training when everyone else still had the attitude of "my style is best - all others suk" and chinese schools were still secretive and 'closed' to outsiders. Both movies and MA have come a hella long way since then so don't judge the old school stuff by the new standards.
Serp, i think BL had excellent form. When he was in action it looked like KF not slop. As for 'complete' knowledge of a system, well jeez he was still young.
ChenZhen, thanks for mentioning GinFoonMark. BL stayed at his school in New York and picked up a lot of PMantis concepts there.
I liked his earlier stuff and he had a strong spirit.

[chen zhen]

GFM did a huge contribution to BL's development as a MA'ist.

I like his earlier stuff too, from the period he wrote the stuff that made it to the book "tao of gung fu"

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

not only did rouge spunk his funny juice on you's guys but he got it in your eye and gave you a pearl necklace all at once.

[Ben Gash]

"everyone else still had the attitude of "my style is best - all others suk" The whole Tan Sam/Kuo Yu Cheong collaboration, and the ethos of the Chin Woo, Nanjing Central Kuoshu Institute and Wutan international would indicate otherwise. Indeed, this attitude is most prevalent amongst western students and instructors. In China most practitioners are fairly complementary of other styles. It's also relatively common for people to cross train there.
"BL was ahead of his time in the idea of cross training " Chan Heung studied with 3 different masters to formulate his style. Wong Fei Hung and Lam Sai Wing absorbed large amounts from other styles into their Hung Gar. The list goes on.....
The evolution of CMA has always depended on the assimilation of new ideas and the results of experience. Again, it is this largely Western "purist" approach that is non-traditional.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
not only did rouge spunk his funny juice on you's guys but he got it in your eye and gave you a pearl necklace all at once.

Pearl Harbor 2: Pearl Necklace

[shaolin kungfu]

No, this is Pearl Harbor 2 (http://www.pearlharborii.com/)

[Serpent]

Well, of course he was trolling, but really. Who needs much of an excuse to point out once again that Bruce Lee was only the greatest at being hyped.

;)

[rogue]

Went fishing and caught me a Serpent!
Hehehehehehehehehehe! Bruce Lee is still king!:D

[Serpent]

Careful what you catch - it might bite ya!

[rogue]

Bite away my little worm, you're already in my chum bucket!:D

Though it was hard keeping this going since I mostly agree with you.

[Serpent]

:D

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i dont get the pearl harbor thing. pearl neclace ... pearl harbor ... slimy cummed up chest ... hawaiian boat thing .... nope still dont get it.

[Ging Mo Fighter]

on the subject of Bruce Lee, i think alot of people are missing the point, firstly JKD isnt a style, its just a system of thought and about finding the truth, where the person is more important than the style

indeed bruce was about adaptation and learning from all possible sources, to prepare for all possible attacks, he was about not limiting yourself, etc

i think its unfair to judge bruces fighting skills, seeing as he has passed away, but from what i have read, everyone who said he "wasnt a real fighter" got a smack in the head pretty fast, and that was the end of it

if he was alive today, i think that he would have developed a system of fighting that would have become very popular, no doubt due to his superstar status as well, but also because he was very open to western culture.. but i guess things wernt meant to be

respect though, for at the very least, a different perspective on martial arts

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i don't think anyone was calling bruce a pu ssy. it's just that some people are annoyed by hype.

[Ford Prefect]

Before I started MA, a punch was just a punch and a kick was just a kick.
When I started martial arts a punch was no longer just a punch and a kick no longer just a kick
Now that I've done martial arts for some time, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick.

LOL! Sorry, I'm just reading this thread and stumbled on this post. Very funny. He missed the point with this saying? I think you missed the point. It's an old Buddhist saying about how about the evolution of enlightenment, which is what he was trying to convey. (replace puch with tree and kick with mountain) That saying has nothing to do with classifying something as a classical mess.

[Ford Prefect]

my opinion is bruce lee can be considered as the best inovator in the domain of external martial art. and also nobody did as much reasearch as he did. however, bruce lee was quite impatient and energic character, he didnt beleived in internal power, and that's why he found some limit in wingchun.

Actually, I've read an article by Bruce about the many benefits of meditation. Your info is wrong. He was into meditation and believed internal arts were good for chi cultivation. He just didn't beleive in the use of chi in combat.

[Ford Prefect]

I saw a mention of Gene Lebell too. He wrote an article for IKF magazine about Bruce Lee and about how he thought Bruce was the best martial artist he ever met. I'm not saying he didn't hand it to Bruce, but that says a lot.

So much hating go on here.

[yenhoi]

Return of the Dragon (the one with Chuck Norris) was the first Hong Kong film filmed outside of Asia - in europe, Rome.

Enter the Dragon - first Hollywood-Hong Kong joint publication/production.

Accomplishments during the 60/70s.

:rolleyes:

[norther practitioner]

Wasn't he a dancer? Kind of like Zhang Zi Yi.....













:rolleyes:
















:D I'm just trolling now huh?

[rogue]

I love it when a troll topic takes on a life of it's own.:D

[chen zhen]

yes, Bruce was a cha-cha dancer while he was in Hong Kong. I think he won some dance contests too.
:)

It's kinda lol..:D

[Laughing Cow]

I think he was also a child actor at around age 4~5.

Teenage years: MA study and Dancing.

[chen zhen]

i think he was a child actor much longer.. age 3-11 or something like that

[diego]

Originally posted by Ben Gash

It is here that I think Bruce Lee missed the point. After only 5 years of patchy training and then working out on his own for a wjile, he decided that WC was a "classical mess", when according to this line of thought he just wasn't good enough at it.


I disagree, bruce never dissed wing chun or kung fu just the fakers who practise it....he dissed all the so called hong kong grandmasters with they big belly talking about chi etc when he knew chucky would have stomped em...so bruce just experimented with what worked to overcome bigger dudes then he......ip man william cheung and wong shun leung he never dissed but felt he could take em....and anyone else inhis wing chun classes bruce used to beat up, so i find it funny peeps saying what bruce knew in wing chun when he used to beat on they teachers!.

[diego]

Originally posted by Serpent


Give me a break. The most innovative thing he worked on was The Silent Flute (called something different in the US... Circel Of Iron or something like that?) Shame that Carradine ended up playing the teacher, but still a great movie. It would have been really interesting to see him in that role.

But I maintain - he's over rated as a martial artist, as an actor and as a philosopher, though his philosophy was probably his strongest attribute.

i don't know what your beef wit bruce is but i challenge you to a duel meet me at 3 fuqa:eek:

nah i think peeps taking it to far i mean my pops use to run with hells angels when bruce was kicking and my pops was a fairlybig dude into martial arts and weight lifting and all that and there was two peeps he looked up to as real men in pop culture bruce and arnie when he was mr universe....one in my arnie book he bigs up bruce's body saying he has better muscle quality then arnie inhis prime, and peeps saw bruce as a major icon for how he made a name for himself by mastering his body....so i dont think his acting etc is the issue it was his class that peeps saw like how he used his effort to make a name for himself......I honestly doubt yall here at kfo can do that......tops yall could be van damme leauge but yall ain't f'n wit bruce

































he's cooler than yall fuqz:)

[rogue]

See Serps, I told ya Bruce Lee was the ultimate fighter and would still be if his training regime hadn't killed him.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by diego


i don't know what your beef wit bruce is but i challenge you to a duel meet me at 3 fuqa:eek:


Look me up when you're next in Sydney and I'll whip you like I'd whip Bruce if he had the nads to show up.

;)

[Serpent]

Originally posted by rogue
See Serps, I told ya Bruce Lee was the ultimate fighter and would still be if his training regime hadn't killed him.

Yeah. It must be true, cos Diego's dad said so.

:)

[chen zhen]

article about gene lebell and BL's relationship (http://www.genelebell.com/stories.asp?d=21)

[chen zhen]

here's another:

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ray.d8/article12.html