do they have drunken mantis in wah lum?

[Shaolin Dude]

no message

[SaMantis]

why not? :D

actually, I'm not aware of drunken mantis being in the formal curriculum, but I don't have that list in front of me so I could be wrong. Anyway, I'm a long way from learning drunken anything. (At least in the kwoon. Getting drunk I can do on my own.)


Many additional forms are on the list that are NOT part of the curriculum but are taught (often as seminars).

[SolarStance]

Hi Guys!

Drunken form is listed in the handbook under "advanced hand forms."

I don't know it, though. I have enough trouble with the sober ones...

)))Solar Stance(((

[CLFNole]

I remember seeing Tracy Fleming do this set a number of times back in the 1990s. He was very good at it and did at the grand opening of our school.

Peace.

[Jack Squat]

Yes, WL has drunken forms in the system. Yao Li used to do one, and later so did TF. TF was much better IMHO. I think I remember Dale H doing a drunken gim set, but can't say for sure. I do know that there are also other drunken forms as well, ie. drunken broadsword, etc., but I haven't seen any recently.

[Siuhoimoon]

I may be wrong, but I think the drunken broadsword form is a seminar form, not part of the regular curriculum.
And the drunken gim sifu DH performs seems to me like a shaolin form, propably he learned it at one of the China trips. Anyway, it's a very interesting form! :)

[NorthernMantis]

Well the question was is there any drunken mantis forms int the system not drunken forms. To my knowledge I havent' seen any but there could be.

[18elders]

Tf made that form up, DH may have learned from SC who learned the drunkedn gim form Jiang bing dao in china.
MC did teach a drunken broadsword form that is pretty good

[4 Dragons]

I don't know about Wah Lum but I have been told that traditional mantis does not have any drunken forms. It belongs to wu shu only.

[Tainan Mantis]

4 Dragons,
The oldest known book on Shaolin empty hand fighting contains Eight Drunken Immortals.

[4 Dragons]

Hi Tainan Mantis,

Is Eight Drunken Immortals in Praying Mantis?

4 Dragons

[Tainan Mantis]

4 Dragons,
Eight Drunken Immortals is not part of PM.

I don't know this style only have the old book.

Some people know the style or form, but if it is related to the old Shaolin is another question.

[Shaolin-Do]

8 drunken immortals-
Li tung ping : A goverment official during the Tang dynasty who received the Scholary and Martial Complete Talent award

Li tie kuai : A cripple with an iron crutch who has a bad temper and an abrasive personality

Chuang kuo lao : An eccentric delighting in eccentric pastimes such as riding his donkey backward and carrying a bizzare musical instrument

Chao kuo Chiu : A ruthless imperial official who carries a rattle or an imperial tablet

Hang yang chie : A gentle mountain recluse who plays a jade flute

Lan tsai ho : An amiable madman with a basket of flowers

He hsiang ku : A woman of great wisdom and discipline who carries a lotus

Hsianh chung li : A former Han dynasty official who taught Li tung ping and carries a fan or peach of immortality

Each immortal has something like 10-18 forms, empty hand and weapons.
Several animal styles also have their own "drunken" sets, although not related to the drunken immortals.

[Skarbromantis]

Originally posted by 4 Dragons
I don't know about Wah Lum but I have been told that traditional mantis does not have any drunken forms. It belongs to wu shu only.

The late master WHF, published a book on the Drunken Form, for his 7 star clan, and he was considered The Mantis King of Hong Kong.

Skard1

[4 Dragons]

Well, looks like I was either given misinformation on perhaps I understood wrong. The person I asked is a Tai Mantis master so maybe he was just referring to Tai Mantis. Sorry.
4 Dragons

[mantis108]

Hi 4 Dragons,

May I ask which Tai Mantis master did you talk to? Just like to point out the Tai Mantis is an association under the direction of Sifu Kam Yuen. It is not a style per se. In the west, there are Sifu Ilya Profatilov and others plus GM Chiu Chuk Kai (CCK TCPM) most if not all collectively goes under Taiji Praying Mantis (TJPM) banner. Drunken Boxing is definitely not within TJPM curriculum(s) as far as I am aware. In 7 Stars, that's a different story.

Regards

Mantis108

[4 Dragons]

Hi mantis108,

I was being lazy when I wrote Tai Mantis. To be specific this master is in the lineage of CCK TCPM. I hope it is OK to say because I really don't want to regret it but here goes...Hung Chiang disciple and son of Sifu Huy Chiang one of the 12 disciples. Once again, I could very well have misunderstood what was said to me.

4 Dragons

[Skarbromantis]

4Dragons......

nope we are both right, Tai Mantis, doesn't have it...

7Star does,

what about the other styles of Mantis, do they have Drunken?

Mantis108 thanks for the info.

Skard1

[MantisifuFW]

Originally posted by 4 Dragons
I don't know about Wah Lum but I have been told that traditional mantis does not have any drunken forms. It belongs to wu shu only.

4 Dragons,

You are right in many respects. Even among Qixing families, only the HK version has drunken sets. I have researched with Qixing Tanglang instructors in most of the major lines in China and they consider the Drunken sets a completely different category of art form. I have not met any traditional Tanglang practitioners on the mainland who practice the drunken techniques, even as a separate discipline, though I would not be surprised to find that there were.

For HK mantis, I do not know the reason that the techniques were added to the system. No doubt some of my seniors would.

However as a HK practitioner, I can say that the drunken sets both function as part of the Qigong training and part of the fighting technique. The Ditong (ground rolling and falling) aspects of the drunken sets augment Pai Da body conditioning training.

Additionally the drunken sets help develop greater body control where, for example, in the Drunken Luo Han set, (the one in the WHF books), one is required to "appear to go left but go right" by shifting the body's center of gravity in one direction while appearing to be going in another.

In fighting there are "emergency techniques" where one injures the opponent even as one goes to the ground or where one throws or even locks up an opponent from the ground as he attacks.

The drunken techniques were added to the system after LKY arrived in Hong Kong as a new development in his approach to Tanglang. As far as I can tell from my research, no other branch of Tanglang has added it to their system. (I can always be wrong though).

Hope it helps,

Steve Cottrell

[Brad]

Well, the drunken forms I've seen done by Wah Lum in torunements were the mainland wushu drunken forms, and didn't apear to be mantis.

[woliveri]

Do drunken sets usually have an animal/insect characteristic?

Or

Are drunken sets just what they are: drunken?


I can't remember ever seeing a drunken set with an animal characteristic but it's been a while since I saw any kung fu.

[MantisifuFW]

woliveri,

I have heard of Drunken techniques being associated with the Monkey style but, that's really beyond my experience.

Mostly it seems to be associated with figures of myth and religion. Sifu Carl Albright's line of HK Tanglang has several Drunken forms. He would be a good one to research this with. Or perhaps one of his students on the board could comment.

Sorry not to be of more help,

Steve Cottrell

[4 Dragons]

I think Eagle Claw has a drunken set.

[MantisifuFW]

:You are absolutely correct. Now that you mention it I remember Sifu L. Lau once described the set to me after seeing me do the Drunken Luo Han in China. She laughingly offered to get me a video of it so I could attempt to learn it but after hearing her discription I declined because I knew it was beyond me.

Wow, I can't believe i forgot that. A mind is a terrible thing to lose.

Steve Cottrell

[yu shan]

18 Elders is correct from I remember.