fear -- is it rational?

[rubthebuddha]

a recent discussion with a friend -- who has an unholy fear of sharks and, thus, won't get wet in puget sound with me even though the biggest shark i've seen in the sound in my 25 years is a 14-inch dogfish -- made me think about fear on a broader level.

anyhoo, do you consider fear to be a rational thing? fear of heights can be useful, since it would keep us from playing around on less-than-solid cliff edges, but it may inhibit us from other activities.

or more social fears, such as the fear of being attacked. while it may keep you from dark alleys in downtown, it can make a coward out of someone just as easily and keep them from making him or herself more confident and able to protect them and their family.

please discuss. the subject is currently bouncing around in my head with little direction. i'd like to hear what you folks think.

[Suntzu]

fear is rational...... some peoples responses to them my not be, tho...

[shaolin kungfu]

Fear is completely rational. Fear is your mind telling you something might be dangerous. Some people do over react to it though.

[Oso]

wouldn't it depend on whether the fear was innate or learned?

I will use my father for example, I don't think he'll mind.

He was in Vietnam and had two separate incidents with snakes.
One was on a night patrol and he and a buddy were laying prone on a hill and a large python slid accross their legs...and stayed there all night. For obvious reasons they couldn't just shoot it. So they had to lay there with this snake on them all night untill it moved on in the morning.

The second was when he stepped on a 'bamboo viper' (his words) while on patrol and he had to stand there until someone came up and cut it's head off.

Now, he has a morbid fear of snakes from learned experiences. He said that he had always messed with them as a boy. He cannot control his fear and will not get within 100' of a snake if he can help it.

Now for me: I have a fear of heights. No reason that I can think of. I just get all jittery above 40'. But, I was a verticle caver for 4 years and my work over the last 8 years has had me doing things like hanging head first over the edge of a 3 story building's roof as I hammered guttering back on. Irrational fear overcome by rational thinking.

Not sure what either mean, though. Just the thoughts that hit me.

[Starchaser107]

some Fear is normal and a healthy response. :( Other fears are irrational and crippling. What I dont understand is, why are so many people on this island Afraid of small lizards that are harmless?
To the point they ransack an entire room searching for the thing to kill it. :eek: I mean..lizards are kind of like natures pest control they eat mosquitos and stuff............. I dunno, I never fully understood this intense fear -that turned into bitteer hatred for lizards.??? I guess people dont like ugly?

Anyways more related to martial arts , I find that some people are reluctant to spar because of the fear of being hit. So they do thier forms and stuff and think its ok. I always think this is self sabotage. in order to learn how to fight one has to fight. Ive heard that fear is a mind killer , i think someone said that in dune or something , anyways its true. Once people submit to thier fears then improving themselves is impossible.
just remember what yoda said about fear leadingto the darkside ;)

[David Jamieson]

The manifestation of fear is often irrational. But fear itself as an emotion is quite natural.

To fear a spider simply because it is a spider is irrational. To have a fear of venomous spiders is natural.

Fear is an emotion. It has different levels of manifestation from avoidance to hysteria. You cannot stamp it out. Use it to benefit you.

If you are void of fear entirely, it is likely that you have been completely desensitized through some activity or practice or you are a sociopath or a psychopath :)

I hope no one here is the latter two.

cheers

[ewallace]

Some types of fear are actually results/symptoms of more serious disorders such as OCD.

[Former castleva]

Fear is nothing but normal and important.
One can ask oneself the question-"Why Did Fear evolve?"
Why am I hardwired to fear?
Because fear is useful,it was useful and was/will be selected for.
Some of our fears may not make sense in this biological sense,arachnofobia (fear of arachnids,as previously mentioned) as an example,reasons for such can be found from western culture,we are conditioned to fear such a usually harmless and useful non-insect.
Of course fear can overdevelop at a time or two,as we can see in ever increasing amount of anxiety disorders etc.
As in fear and various human emotions and defense mechanisms of us,a lot of it is extremely useful while some of it has not quite had time to adapt into our modern enviroment.This may cause additional problems.

[Laughing Cow]

Fear is normal and good.

"Fear of the unknown", IMO, does not exist, this is more anxiety labeled as fear.

Certain fears and reactions to those fears can be taught or instilled by surrounding people.

Fear is an alarm bell to watch out similar to pain.

Cheers.

[Christopher M]

Love yer dog, Former C! Is it yours?

[Former castleva]

Oh,just your regular Alaskan Malamute (if polished)
Not mine just,so,yet at least.I´m thinking of affording a dog like this if I dare.

[Christopher M]

I spent a couple years next door to a Malamute when I was younger... really great dogs, them.

Some day when I have a decent yard and am staying in the same place for a few years, I'm gonna get a couple nice dogs like that. One like this (http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/alaskanhusky.htm) or this (http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/saarlooswolfhond.htm) or maybe this (http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/czechoslovakianwolfdog.htm).

[Former castleva]

That´s cool and might be good too,for you.

Alaskan husky is a bit controversial dog,sort of a hybrid being in a case or two.They have received some ill fame due to their loosely produced nature.

Around here,there´s currently re-running this tv-show "White Fang" based on Jack London´s famous work.
It´s a bit juvenile in character,those tv-series but I really love it.
My heart sank rapidly under a week ago when I noticed that I had missed the first chapter.

But to get back to business as expected,here´s a good site on this breed;
http://www.malamute.org/

[Christopher M]

I don't know much about the Alaskan Husky actually. What are the problems? Hip dysplasia and such?

... just reading stuff on the web now... I guess it's not an official breed; I didn't know that! I knew they can have a distinct look compared to other huskies, but I didn't realize it was from mixed breeding.

[Becca]

Alaskan Huskys are not always good people dogs, either. You have to be careful not to get one that "acts wild." They can have the same problem with noise and being penned up as wolf mixes.

[Becca]

back on topic:

Fear is good, so long as it doesn't control your life. I used to have no fear what so ever of spiders, even the poisonous ones. Then one day I got pinned in a bathroom by one of Hawaii's famous Bigg Friggin *uckers. I think they are called Bananna spiders. Nothing like standing on a toilet for 2 hours stairring at a 12" spider to make you leary of them. Every time I tryed to get out, the sucker would move to intercept me.:mad: I didn't know at the time that they wern't poisonous. I actually threw a dictionary at one once. I swear the dictionary moved, even though I hit it dead on!

[taijiquan_student]

I like the way my teacher characterizes fear: Fear is not being in the moment. That's all it is. If I'm in a fight, and I'm scared, it's because in my mind I'm already getting hit. And that's when you really do get hit. So basically, you can really reduce your fear enormously if you can just stay in the moment. If you can do that, then you won't be afraid, because your mind won't be thinking up horribly painful scenarios when you should be dealing with what's going on around you.

I'm extremely afraid of bees. I don't know why. I have no problem getting hit in sparring or anything, but bees just freak me out. It's weird 'cause I know they don't hurt that much if they sting you, and usually they don't care about you at all (though my fear is mainly towards those big, long, noisy-as-shi.t black wasps and those kinds of bees/wasps--regular ole honey bees don't really freak me out that much anymore). But when I think about times when I've been buzzed by a wasp or a bee, and been scared, basically what's going on is that in my mind I'm already stung. In my mind, I'm being descended on by this buzzing, evil, stinging messenger of Satan who's sole purpose in life is to sting the shi.t out of me. If I could just not be dumb like that, then my fear would be gone. Once I realized that bumblebees don't give a dam.n about no one, my mind was cool when I was around them.

Anyway, I'm starting to ramble. Sorry for getting off the topic of dogs. I like dogs. I have a dalmatian. But yeah, that's how my teacher talks about fear, and I've always "seen" it and been able to apply it to my life (god-dam.n bees. I'm such a poon).

[Former castleva]

Chris.M,
Yeah,what Becca said.
I´m no cynology expert but I think they are being bred with wolves more or less randomly in order to increase their desired characters,this has it´s downsides.

[Becca]

Don' know if they are breed with wolves, but I've owned both, and IMO, both have the same tendoncy to really not like being fenced or leashed and don't like crowds. In the case of the Wolf mix, I made my ex get rid of her, because I almost got bitten trying to feed her. There was no way I was willing to have a dog like that around my then 3 year old. Kiko, my Husky was ok so long as we kept her put up when strangers were around. But they realy aren't good city dogs. And in some cities they are banned, just like wolf mixes, because they are so similar in temerment. You really don't want to get animal control involved. They are constantly on my a$$ because of my Pitt Bull/Lab. I didn't even know he was a Pitt mix when he was given to me. But he is a good dog. Very smart and never barks, never messes in the house, very good with my kids (especially the baby). But he has the hyperness of a Lab and the health problems of a Pit.:( I usually get mixed breeds to avoid health problems and behavural issues. I think I will go back to pure breed labs when Smokey dies (he's 8, getting old for a Lab.)

[Former castleva]

Yeah.Malamutes are "part wolves" and wolf is an essential part of the dog.
But wolf "of" malamute is of quality character,they are very friendly and definitely not agressive as far as I know,.They can be pretty independent,harder to train and dog agressive though. :o

"my Husky was ok so long as we kept her put up when strangers were around. But they realy aren't good city dogs. "
I assume you´re talking about Alaskan rather than Siberian husky´s if I read you carefully enough.Wolves can be hard on strangers (assuming someone figured out that it´s a good idea to keep one as a pet,might be inherited)

[Becca]

Yep, she was an Alaskan Husky. Wolf mixes and Huskies of all kinds are very common in Wyoming, where I grew up. And I have seen many good wolf mixes and almost pure wolfs. But as I stated earlier, you've go t to be careful with them. Some People hear "wolf" and say "I gotta have one!" But they have no idea how to take care of them. Dogs have had over 6,000 years of domestication to breed out their more agressive traits. Wolfs have not, and that needs to be taken into count.

[Former castleva]

Come to think of it,I´m not completely aware of how long doggies have been running down our feet.It may be 12-5000 years,yet it can even be up to 100 000!

As far as my understanding goes,having a wolf as a pet is basically nuts.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by taijiquan_student

I'm extremely afraid of bees. I don't know why. I have no problem getting hit in sparring or anything, but bees just freak me out.

Dude, me too. I was just going to make a post about that. :)

IronFist

[Former castleva]

What if you spar someone who stings like a bee?