kenneth cheung

[flaco]

has anyone touched hands with him? all i hear is how he has the internal stuff mastered, and he can control people easily in chi sau. i have never met him, so im interested in peoples experience with him

[kj]

Originally posted by flaco
has anyone touched hands with him?

Yes. Ken is my teacher.


all i hear is how he has the internal stuff mastered, and he can control people easily in chi sau. i have never met him, so im interested in peoples experience with him

Neither Ken nor Wing Chun traditionally make the internal/external distinction, although sometimes others qualify it that way. I feel that Ken's Wing Chun is phenomenal, an opinion which is both well informed and naturally biased. :)

If you're just looking for general information, you can find various articles, essays, bios and background at each of the following sites:

Bay Area Wing Chun Students Association (http://www.bawcsa.org)
Stanford University Wing Chun Student Association (http://www.stanford.edu/group/wingchun/)
Rochester Wing Chun Student Association (http://www.rochesterwingchun.com)

These should get you started, and also provide access to additional links.

First hand experience speaks far truer than anything I or others can write on the internet. You might consider arranging a stop by one of his classes some time. There is also the opportunity of the annual Wing Chun Camp. The first and last websites above have information on this year's camp, which was held in May; I hope to have information on next year's camp posted as soon as few details are firmed up. The camp is open to anyone in Wing Chun, and people from all families are encouraged to participate.

There are a few people on the board who learn from Ken directly, and quite a few more who learn from his students. Many others here have had varying degrees of experience or exposure to Ken. Other than what you've already heard or find in the linked articles, let us know what else you'd like perspectives on; I and no doubt several others will do our best to assist or at least provide our viewpoints.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Zhuge Liang]

Hi flaco,


Originally posted by flaco
has anyone touched hands with him? all i hear is how he has the internal stuff mastered...

Don't say that to his face. =) He would never admit to it.

But I would say that a lot of our training overlaps with training that may be considered "internal." Recently, I visited the Taiji and Chi gung teacher of a friend of mine and had a nice discussion with him about kung fu in general. He does not know Ken personally, but has seen a tape of him doing Chum Kiu. After chatting with him, sharing ideas and concepts, some chi gung demonstrations, and a little sticky/push hands (where he was able to off balance me quite easily), he classified our particular Wing Chun as an "internal art". He use to do Wing Chun himself (way back when in Hong Kong) and he knows one or two local Wing Chun people.

We don't talk about chi or internal vs external in our training. The way Ken teaches, it has always been about optimizing yourself. According to him, he does not like all that "chi gung mumbo jumbo" because he feels it can be misleading.

Regards,
Zhuge Liang

[yuanfen]

kenneth cheung
has anyone touched hands with him?
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I have not touched hands with him but have seen him deliver explosive but relaxed power at close quarters. And- he has a specific approach to the development of that power which he teaches.

[reneritchie]

I've had the honor and pleasure of touching hands with Chung sifu. He's one of the rare few who's walk matches his talk (not only is he excellent, but he is excellent in the way he teaches his students to be excellent). Relaxed, smooth, skillful, minimalistic, and good natured.

[Phenix]

Certainly, Ken has indepth mastering about Jing.

[kj]

Originally posted by Zhuge Liang
We don't talk about chi or internal vs external in our training. The way Ken teaches, it has always been about optimizing yourself. According to him, he does not like all that "chi gung mumbo jumbo" because he feels it can be misleading.

Impeccably put.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by Phenix
Certainly, Ken has indepth mastering about Jing.
Hi Phenix,

That's an understated way of putting it. :D

Regards,

[Phenix]

Originally posted by John Weiland

Hi Phenix,

That's an understated way of putting it. :D

Regards,



:D :cool:

[cha kuen]

I had a chance to meet Ken back in 2001 on one of my visits to California. I was a little ****y at the time because I thought that I knew my stuff. We talked a little bit and I asked if I could touch hands for fun.

He was soft and seemed to know my next move. I couldnt' do anything because when I tried something, there was his hand infront of me just waiting. At times he used more of his power and it is inspiring! Feeling his power makes me go home and work harder!

I hope to train with him one day.

[MustafaUcozler]

Ken's Wing Chun can only be called *excellent*...no doubt about it. It's best that you go check him out yourself. He is extremely knowledgeable and his "whole body sensitivity" (not just arms) ist superb.



Also...he is a pretty good dancer, too, especially after a beer or two...hehe. One of his specialties is the "Wing Chun" dance to bongo drums and middle eastern fiddle....hehe. :)

Anyway...his last name is "CHUNG" not "CHEUNG"....just to clarify.

I see you're from New York.....I have a gut feeling that you are Danny from Long Island....it's been a while since we spoke. Hope you're feeling better...

Contact me at mustafa@yongchunguan.com so we can catch up. A lot has happened since we last spoke.

Take care,

Mustafa

[flaco]

thanks for replies, i study xing i with li tailiang, who is an internal master, and i do not see many teachers doing relaxed internal wc.

i dont want to get caught up in the chi thing either, so i understand. but as wc should be practiced in this way, very few do it. so i was very interested in your comments, i thank you. i am in ny, and it will be hard for me to hook with ken. i will be in cali in july, and already made plans to visit augustine fong in arizona.

i would hope to meet ken in the future, and if anyone ever wants real xing i or bagua, give me a e-mail, and i can reccomend li tai liang and tell him if you want lessons. he accpepts only a few studnts these days.

[A.C.]

I also have seen the video of kenneth chung peforming cham kiu, it looks very slow like tai chi form. perhaps he has introduced tai chi principles to his unique form of wing chun?this video is real funny looking wing chun. just wondering.

[yuanfen]

"Funny looking"? Strange comment A.C. You apparently just registered yesterday so I dont understand your perspective. Funny compared to what? It would help if you provide a frame of reference for your chum kiu... compare and contrast in an understanddable way perhaps?

[planetwc]

No he has not introduced Taiji principles into Wing Chun, but perhaps you have a specific defintion of what Taiji principles are.

I would group Taiji principles to be around P'eng, dan tien rotation and the linkages developed in Silk Reeling, coupled with power generation from Cannon fist. I have not seen such elements in Ken's Wing Chun.

I think what you *might* notice is a solid ground path connection, which is maintained throughout the movements of Chum Kiu.

Additionally, the ability to generate relaxed power during the turns in Chum Kiu without any loss of balance, center or structure.

I will also say that being able to hold those stances during the pai sau/bong sau stepping can be excruciating. It is part of the bitter of what Kung Fu is.

Some things to check the next time you watch the video...

During the movements, do you notice a lack of balance, wobbly center, bobbing up and down of the body, do you see "pumping up" the upper body/tensing the chest or over-rotation during the turns? I doubt it.

Consider what it must take to be able to do the form slowly and precisely and NOT have those characteristics. It is why along with training Bil Jee in a similar fashion that Ken can enter you and disrupt your structure "merely" with displacement, that in itself is a strike before the hands come into play and eat you alive.

I would imagine, if you didn't like Ken doing Chum Kiu, then you probably would hate what he does in Bil Jee. :P


Originally posted by A.C.
I also have seen the video of kenneth chung peforming cham kiu, it looks very slow like tai chi form. perhaps he has introduced tai chi principles to his unique form of wing chun?this video is real funny looking wing chun. just wondering.

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


The first few times I met Ken I really didn't appreciate what he was doing! I thought that the rumors were true (like AC is stating) but after having my eyes openned thru a different path I can appreciate Ken's WC very much. He is very good at what he does and unlike many his WC very subtle. His approach is a bit slower than most but in the long run I think it will do more for you if you follow it. He is probally the best YMWC I have seen.


Regards,

[kj]

In addition to David's spot-on post, here are a few additional thoughts for consideration:


To move slowly, fluidly or gracefully is not the equivalent of Taiji.
The Chum Kiu reference above could be to the film of Ken from the Lily Lau event in the late 90's.

I have not seen that film yet myself, but have heard numerous second hand accounts from viewers, and about Ken's own comments on it, all of which indicate that Ken may have been performing in a slightly stylized fashion, rather than in our routine way of practice. He performed at that function upon request, and not for the purpose of teaching Wing Chun. Knowing Ken, I also would not be surprised if he was perhaps entertaining and flirting just a little bit by varying his performance for an audience unaccustomed to the visual blandness of our practice. This may in part explain some of the viewers' perceptions. One of these days I will have to see that clip so I can speak to it with less conjecture.

Lastly, here is a short FAQ (http://www.rochesterwingchun.com/RWC_files/pages/readings/FAQ_Ken.htm) for any who may have interest.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[reneritchie]

Sigh, and when I recommended the bullet time butterfly kicks, all y'all were so quick to laugh... :p

[cha kuen]

VIdeo has funny looking wing chun?

Wing chun is a funny looking style to begin with, regardless of lineage.

Mustafa,

Sorry I am not Danny... =]

[MustafaUcozler]

Cha Kuen,

I know who you are :D. I was refering to "flaco".

As to Ken doing taiji....nope....but to taiji and other (once) good martial arts have things in common? Yes. Did the vast majority of current Wing Chun (and other martial arts) lineages and schools/styles/branches lose those fundamental aspects of certain chinese martial arts such as rootedness, a certain kind of power generation, body positioning...a certain way of moving? Most definitely.

No wonder, when someone sees high quality Wing Chun for the first time, they think it must be something else....LOL. It's a sad, sad martial arts world....

Mustafa