Shaolin Gong-Fu- A Course in Traditional Forms by Liu Baoshan

[jackiech]

Has anybody read this book?
Which is better choice...if I order wing lam's Shaolin kung fu series (videos) or if I order this book series?

[Yuen]

Generally forms are easier to learn from videos, rather than from books. However this depends on the person. Maybe for some people it is easier to follow from a book. By the way, where are you planning to buy them from?

[jackiech]

From http://www.superiormartialarts.com
It is a good page

[XiaoLong]

The books are very good. Shows you the original Shaolin forms as they are trained in and near Shaolin village by thousands of people. The only thing, you can't learn the forms from the books. The books are well detailed (drawings, good described) however you need to study them from a real instructor. I would defenitely go for the books (I also have them). If you still need to buy them or the video's please consider using this link (so I can earn some commission :) )
Superior Martial Arts (http://www.superiormartialarts.com/cgi-bin/affiliate/tracker/affiliate=103)

[GeneChing]

I was the first to import those books for WLE. I had met the author, Liu Haichao, at Shaolin in '95 and got some of the first copies hot off the presses, dedicated, autographed and chopped by him. BTW, the website above is a drop-shipper for WLE - better to go direct. Even better to get them from Taguo, they're much less expensive.

As for the books, they're a fascinating reference, a must-have for shaolin aficionados. Very difficult to learn from though, and not without it's share of Chinglish and errors, but you get used to that in CMA research.

I met with Liu Baoshan, Taguo's grandmaster that oversaw publication of the series, again a few weeks ago. He seems to be doing well and was very kind. No word on if they will be adding more books yet...

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

[Royal Dragon]

Gene,
Just so you know (since you took my order personally), I have'nt had any problems learning the forms directly from the texts. Infact, I thought they were broke down in such small steps, that it was easyer than other texts I tried to learn forms from.
I'm just curious as to weather or not thos forms are legitimately "Traditional" or modern Wushu versions of "Traditional" forms

Royal Dragon


"Chi is Chinese for Spinach"

Check out the Royal Dragon Web site

http://www.Royaldragon.4dw.com

[GeneChing]

Took your order personally, did I? Those were the daze.
I'm impressed you could learn from those books. You know, I know some of those sets so I use it for notes a lot and I can't always decipher it. Maybe that's just me. There is some variations between the different schools at Shaolin, and that always trips me up.
Those are traditional sets, not contemporary wushu - no flips or aerials - straight forward forms that walk the line...

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

[beiquan]

i'd be careful with those books, like Gene says they are very informative and a good reference...i tried a couple of the qigong exercises in the 5th book, however, and noticed pretty quickly that in a lot of places the English instructions were less detailed (sometimes actually very different) from the Chinese instructions... even to the point where the Chinese would say "right hand" and the English would say "left hand"!

[XiaoLong]

In 1993 I have met Liu Haichao with the books. However he only had the first 3 ready. It won't be possible to learn the forms & the applications in a correct way from the books, even if you have 10 or more years Shaolin experience. Use them after you have mastered the forms (learning from a real master) :D

[Royal Dragon]

You took the order for the first three, as I ordewred it almost as soon as you got the first shipment in. The other two, I got later and someone else took that order.

Anyway, I learned Shou Hong Chuan from my old Sifu, but I had not done it in such a long time I had gaps in the movement. I used the form in the book to fill those gaps. I know the Shao Hong Chuan I do now is a mix of the book and what I was taught, and probually unique to me, but I kinda like that.

RD


"Chi is Chinese for Spinach"

Check out the Royal Dragon Web site

http://www.Royaldragon.4dw.com

[GeneChing]

xl: You had an edition in '93? I knew it was completed in '93 but I thought it didn't go to press until '94 and wasn't released to outside of Taguo until '95. Was the version you saw in '93 like the one that's currently in print? Books 4 & 5 didn't come out until later, thus the different cover design.

rd: That's cool, I'm honored you remember me taking that order.
I always try to get a quick XHQ pointer from diferent monks, videos and books and I always get contradictory, yet valid advice. As they say, it takes a superior mind to hold two contradictory bits of info in your head and proceed. Wish I had that superior mind, because it's kind of messed up my XHQ. Although I must say, I reviewed it with my master (who taught it to me originally) and wasn't too harsh on the pointers. He actually seemed pleased, which surprised me since my XHQ has decayed to my mind, especially with all of the contradictions. Anyway it was encouraging and has renewed my interest in that set. It's such a great set.

BTW, watch for our JAN/FEB 2002 issue. I've put together a little thing on XHQ/DHQ applications.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

[Royal Dragon]

I have a question,

Are the Martial Monk forms in the Tagou books from the Northern Louhan style? I heard this once, and I would like some confirmation.


"Chi is Chinese for Spinach"

Check out the Royal Dragon Web site

http://www.Royaldragon.4dw.com

[G-MA]

Hello, I'm interested in buying the Taguo Books and was wondering if you have the books can you please give a list of these 54 forms in contains.:):):)

[Royal Dragon]

http://www.martialartsmart.net/bslx115.html

[G-MA]

Thanks, but its out of stock.:eek:
I'll just get it from Wing Lam.:D

Can you tell me many of the forms it has or a link that gives a list or that type of information? I Thank you for your help!

[G-MA]

I've noticed that the form names are different in the books and wanted to know if anyone knew the "real" names of these forms.

great and small straight line arms form
great and small power forms
connecting form
always keeping the will form
great, small, and refined martial monk form
plough form and plough mantis
16 types in 5 stances

[Jingwu Man]

Yeah, I have these books too, and the translations are a bit wonky.

great and small straight line arms form These are Big and little Tongbi

great and small power forms Big and small Paoquan (cannon fist)

connecting form Lianhuanquan, continuous fist

always keeping the will form Changhuxinyimen, Long protect heart will gate

great, small, and refined martial monk form This Luohan

plough form This is Seven star fist. I guess they tried to say big dipper, but it came out as plough....:confused:

and plough mantis Shaolin seven star mantis form, basically bengbu with a shaolin twist.

16 types in 5 stances This is the literal translation of the form
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_MJEVX_SGA

[G-MA]

Thank you, you're a big help. I've always seen bad translation from Chinese to English because I have a translated training book which had some old shaolin monk stories in it and one of them said "the monk then beat off the robers".
After reading that I was suprised that in many other places in the book it constantly says other weird stuff.:D

[Shaolin Wookie]

Beat off the robers.....hahaha.....

[GeneChing]

On sale for a short time - we're clearing some shelf space. Get them while the sale lasts. ;)

[Sal Canzonieri]

If you want to buy the set from me, I have a full set of all 5 volumes that I am looking to sell.

[richard sloan]

Thank you, you're a big help. I've always seen bad translation from Chinese to English because I have a translated training book which had some old shaolin monk stories in it and one of them said "the monk then beat off the robers".
After reading that I was suprised that in many other places in the book it constantly says other weird stuff.:D

those goddam robers!!

coming in here wearing their robes!

[GeneChing]

I found these wacky images of a Taguo performance practice session off Reuters


Student takes part at Tagou Wushu School (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//100730/ids_photos_wl/r3750082537.jpg/?.src=news)

A student takes part in a practice session of a stunt performance at Tagou Wushu School in Zhengzhou, Henan province July 29, 2010. More than 1,500 students from the school will perform at the opening ceremony of the upcoming Asian Games to be held this November in Guangzhou, local media reported. Picture taken July 29, 2010.…
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/rids/20100730/i/r3750082537.jpg?x=400&y=280&q=85&sig=kwiJRnSUqfPD2bsjAXFRGA--
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/rids/20100730/i/r3451388305.jpg?x=400&y=272&q=85&sig=ZUHUNF7hALH9uMdwJVxXcw--

P.S. The Taguo books are still 50% off. (http://www.martialartsmart.com/shaolin-books-scroll-posters.html)

[RenDaHai]

Yeah, if you go to shaolin now you can't miss this massive scaffold. Its really tall. They flying up and down it all day. Its located at the old school by shaolin rather than in dengfeng. It kind of ruins the scene on the way to shaolin. In the top picture you can see wushu guan in the background.

[Crosshandz]

Thought I'd give this thread a "bump" as I'd be interested to know if there's anything else out there in the English language that comes close to these books or whether for the Anglophone Shaolin enthusiast they're "it"?

[Sal Canzonieri]

Thought I'd give this thread a "bump" as I'd be interested to know if there's anything else out there in the English language that comes close to these books or whether for the Anglophone Shaolin enthusiast they're "it"?

The series of booklets in English and Chinese that the Shaolin Abbot is publishing blows away anything out there in English concerning Shaolin.

Each booklet has step by detailed step on how to do the forms correctly. Much research was done to correct past errors and the make the forms as traditionally correct as possible. There are about 16 of them so far.
Eventually, there will be 365 routines shown, both empty hand and weapons.

[Crosshandz]

The series of booklets in English and Chinese that the Shaolin Abbot is publishing blows away anything out there in English concerning Shaolin.

Each booklet has step by detailed step on how to do the forms correctly. Much research was done to correct past errors and the make the forms as traditionally correct as possible. There are about 16 of them so far.
Eventually, there will be 365 routines shown, both empty hand and weapons.

Sounds like a charm. Can you point me in the direction of a reputable vendor Sal?

[rett]

Beat off the robers.....hahaha.....

You used to be able to say that. Alas, no more.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Sounds like a charm. Can you point me in the direction of a reputable vendor Sal?

Well, you need to read Chinese but there is some English there.

I got all of mine from here:
http://www.frelax.com/en/

Go to Categories, and then scroll down to the characters for Wushu.
Or paste in: 少林
where it says title and then keep looking.

If someone here can give you the Chinese character for the Abbot's name, then you can paste that into the author area and it will find it much faster!

Sorry I couldn't be of better service.

[sha0lin1]

I have to agree, I have picked up a few of these books during my visits to the Temple. They are nicely done. But the versions that are in the books may have a few different movements due to the many variations between the forms.

[rett]

Thanks for the tip, Sal.

Wikipedia had the following characters for the abbot's name: 释永信

Edit: but I've only found a hit on the shaolin search under wushu category for: 釈永信



Well, you need to read Chinese but there is some English there.

I got all of mine from here:
http://www.frelax.com/en/

Go to Categories, and then scroll down to the characters for Wushu.
Or paste in: 少林
where it says title and then keep looking.

If someone here can give you the Chinese character for the Abbot's name, then you can paste that into the author area and it will find it much faster!

Sorry I couldn't be of better service.

[rett]

Okay, if I've done it right, here is a list of the 32 books authored by the Shi Yongxin available at Sal's link. I've marked the large and small red fist (as best I can tell)

Any further tips on contents and what could be worth ordering would be a great help.

LD00340794 老刀-少林寺拳譜(漢英対照) 　[釈永信 主編] 1730円 河南人民出版
MGGS328383 民国国術期刊文献集成(全31册) 　[釈永信 主編] 294000円 中国書店
SLSQ353443 少林寺拳譜-三路梅花刀 　[釈永信] 1730円 河南人民出版
SLSQ354021 少林寺拳譜-二路梅花刀 　[釈永信] 1730円 河南人民出版
SLWC358214 少林問禅-机鋒辨禅 　[釈永信 主編] 1920円 国際文化
WXZD359308 我心中的少林 　[釈永信] 3200円 上海錦綉文章
ZGFJ378789 中国仏教医葯全書(全101册、含目録索引1册) 　[釈永信 主編] 1200000円 中国書店
ZSLS354498 在少林寺听講座(精編本) 　[釈永信] 2530円 上海交通大学
ZSLS354497 在少林寺听名家講座(上中下) 　[釈永信] 11340円 上海交通大学
SLSH340797 少林焼火棍-少林寺拳譜(漢英対照) 　[釈永信 主編] 1730円 河南人民出版
SLWC313728 少林問禅-机鋒辨禅 　[釈永信 主編] 2110円 金城
SSQ0340796 十三槍-少林寺拳譜(漢英対照) 　[釈永信 主編] 1730円 河南人民出版
WXZD355382 我心中的少林 　[釈永信 著] 2530円 上海錦綉文章
XHQ0205464 小洪拳(英漢対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 1290円 河南人民出版 [xiao hong quan]
YLMH340798 一路梅花刀.英漢対照-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 1730円 河南人民出版
CLJ0193422 禅露集(三) 　[釈永信 著] 1100円 宗教文化
CLJ0193423 禅露集(四) 　[釈永信 著] 1230円 宗教文化
WXWF240821 我心我仏：釈永信方丈禅語録 　[釈永信 著] 1290円 華齢
BQ00261673 炮拳(英漢対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 1860円 河南人民出版
CHXY255154 長護心意門拳(中英文対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 2460円 河南人民出版
DHQ0261591 大洪拳(英漢対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 1860円 河南人民出版 [da hong quan]
DHQ0238822 大洪拳(俄文)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 編] 3120円 河南人民出版 [da hong quan]
ELRQ261619 二路柔拳(英漢対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 1860円 河南人民出版
MHQ0261624 梅花拳(英漢対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 2290円 河南人民出版
SLGF216433 少林功夫 　[釈永信] 2340円 華齢
SLLH258253 三路羅漢拳(英漢対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 2400円 河南人民出版
SLSL175146 少林寺旅遊手册 　[釈永信 編著] 1290円 当代中国
SLSQ261551 大通臂拳(中英文対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 1860円 河南人民出版
XHQ0238817 小洪拳(俄文)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 編] 1730円 河南人民出版 [xiao hong quan]
YLRQ261494 一路柔拳(英漢対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 2290円 河南人民出版
YLTB261495 一路通臂拳(英漢対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 2290円 河南人民出版
DHQ0205665 大洪拳(中英文) 　[釈永信 主編] 1290円 河南人民出版 [da hong quan]

[wenshu]

Some are repeated.

大/小洪拳：not red, literally means flood, also a Surname.

Appears to be in Japanese so some listings use different character variants.

LD00340794 老刀-少林寺拳譜(漢英対照) 　[釈永信 主編] 1730円 河南人民出版 Lao dao
MGGS328383 民国国術期刊文献集成(全31册) 　[釈永信 主編] 294000円 中国書店 people's national martial arts periodical compendium???
SLSQ353443 少林寺拳譜-三路梅花刀 　[釈永信] 1730円 河南人民出版 third road of mei hua dao
SLSQ354021 少林寺拳譜-二路梅花刀 　[釈永信] 1730円 河南人民出版 second road of mei hua dao
SLWC358214 少林問禅-机鋒辨禅 　[釈永信 主編] 1920円 国際文化 Chan Questions???
WXZD359308 我心中的少林 　[釈永信] 3200円 上海錦綉文章 Shaolin in my heart (Yong Xin's autobiography)
ZGFJ378789 中国仏教医葯全書(全101册、含目録索引1册) 　[釈永信 主編] 1200000円 中国書店 Chinese Buddhist medicine compedium
ZSLS354498 在少林寺听講座(精編本) 　[釈永信] 2530円 上海交通大学 lecture series
ZSLS354497 在少林寺听名家講座(上中下) 　[釈永信] 11340円 上海交通大学 "
SLSH340797 少林焼火棍-少林寺拳譜(漢英対照) 　[釈永信 主編] 1730円 河南人民出版 Shaolin Shao Huo Gun
SLWC313728 少林問禅-机鋒辨禅 　[釈永信 主編] 2110円 金城
SSQ0340796 十三槍-少林寺拳譜(漢英対照) 　[釈永信 主編] 1730円 河南人民出版 Thirteen Types Spear
XHQ0205464 小洪拳(英漢対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 1290円 河南人民出版 [xiao hong quan]
YLMH340798 一路梅花刀.英漢対照-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 1730円 河南人民出版 first road of mei hua dao
CLJ0193422 禅露集(三) 　[釈永信 著] 1100円 宗教文化 Chan Dew 3(poetry)
CLJ0193423 禅露集(四) 　[釈永信 著] 1230円 宗教文化 Chan Dew 4(poetry)
WXWF240821 我心我仏：釈永信方丈禅語録 　[釈永信 著] 1290円 華齢 Chan Sayings??
BQ00261673 炮拳(英漢対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 1860円 河南人民出版 Pao Quan
CHXY255154 長護心意門拳(中英文対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 2460円 河南人民出版 Chang Hu Xin Yi Men
DHQ0261591 大洪拳(英漢対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 1860円 河南人民出版 [da hong quan]
DHQ0238822 大洪拳(俄文)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 編] 3120円 河南人民出版 [da hong quan]
ELRQ261619 二路柔拳(英漢対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 1860円 河南人民出版 second road of rou quan
MHQ0261624 梅花拳(英漢対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 2290円 河南人民出版 meihua quan
SLGF216433 少林功夫 　[釈永信] 2340円 華齢 Shaolin Gong Fu
SLLH258253 三路羅漢拳(英漢対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 2400円 河南人民出版 Third Road of Luohan Quan
SLSL175146 少林寺旅遊手册 　[釈永信 編著] 1290円 当代中国 Shaolin Tour Guide Book
SLSQ261551 大通臂拳(中英文対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 1860円 河南人民出版 Large frame Tong Bi
XHQ0238817 小洪拳(俄文)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 編] 1730円 河南人民出版 [xiao hong quan]
YLRQ261494 一路柔拳(英漢対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 2290円 河南人民出版 First road of rou quan
YLTB261495 一路通臂拳(英漢対照)-少林寺拳譜 　[釈永信 主編] 2290円 河南人民出版 first road of tong bi
DHQ0205665 大洪拳(中英文) 　[釈永信 主編] 1290円 河南人民出版 [da hong quan]

[rett]

Thanks for the translations:)

[wenshu]

SLWC358214 少林問禅-机鋒辨禅 　[釈永信 主編] 1920円 国際文化 Chan Questions???
This one is actually "Chan Debate" I think.

I got the fist and weapons forms but there are other members here who could give you much more complete and accurate translations of the other listings.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Thanks for the tip, Sal.

Wikipedia had the following characters for the abbot's name: 释永信

Edit: but I've only found a hit on the shaolin search under wushu category for: 釈永信

Their search engine isn't working right.

[Sal Canzonieri]

I have to agree, I have picked up a few of these books during my visits to the Temple. They are nicely done. But the versions that are in the books may have a few different movements due to the many variations between the forms.

well, the thing about these versions are that the Abbot gathered as many as of the old timers from the countryside together and they detail by detail made corrections to the sets so that they would be as close to the original ways of doing the sets as possible. It can be done, and I really like the way they are done in these books, the postural movements make much more sense.

[rett]

well, the thing about these versions are that the Abbot gathered as many as of the old timers from the countryside together and they detail by detail made corrections to the sets so that they would be as close to the original ways of doing the sets as possible. It can be done, and I really like the way they are done in these books, the postural movements make much more sense.

Sounds interesting. Hope this gives a nice picture of the unwushuified forms. I've ordered the xiao hong quan book to take a look. Really appreciate the tip.

[Crosshandz]

Thanks for the heads up guys. :) These books sound like they're gonna be awesome.

[Royal Dragon]

Sal,
Do they have

1. Lao Hong Quan
2. 32 Posture Tai Tzu Chang Chuan
3. At least 3 of the 6 roads of Da Hong Quan,
4. Xiao Hong Quan?


Also, do they have accurate and authentic applications for each move?

[Matthew]

Thanks for the tip, Sal.

Wikipedia had the following characters for the abbot's name: 释永信

Edit: but I've only found a hit on the shaolin search under wushu category for: 釈永信


Their search engine isn't working right.



Hey rett,

it seems this is an issue of Japanese Characters- the Shi character in Chinese being "释" while the character "釈" is not Chinese- I cannot read nor write Japanese Characters- but often the Chinese were simplified differently into Japanese Kanji from what I have read.

It seems there are several examples of this on the Frelax website that I have found in my search for ShaoLin.

Hope this helps

[rett]

Yes, it definitely helps, thanks!

[Fa Xing]

In the second volume, is "The snapkicking form with ten sections" a Shaolin version of Tan Tui? I would be surprised if it were, considering that it is from Chinese Muslim kung fu styles.

Thoughts?

[RenDaHai]

In the second volume, is "The snapkicking form with ten sections" a Shaolin version of Tan Tui? I would be surprised if it were, considering that it is from Chinese Muslim kung fu styles.

Thoughts?

Yeah, there are several Shaolin Tantui sets, usually 24 lines. Though in SongShan they are not that commonly practiced, just a few clans.

Not all Tantui is Muslim, there are multiple versions, some may be completely unrelated. The story I heard is that it was originally from LongTan Temple (Temple of the dragon pool) and so is called TanTui (Pool/pond legs). It seems more likely it is the name of a family. Some people change the Tan to 'flick'. Its old enough that there are countless versions in clans across China without a very clear origin.

Shaolin temple is in a constant state of flux with regards to monks so there is not a very consistent syllabus. Rather anything ShaolinPai traditionally practiced in the Song Mountain area, in the many villages and townships and temples, is 'Shaolin'. Much of this Shaolin is imported from other styles over centuries but retains a common SongShan flavour and technique base.

[Fa Xing]

Awesome, thank you!

[Fa Xing]

Another question: it mentions the term 'wintersweet' for a dao form and mantis form, is there a better translation for that term, it seems to be Chinglish?

[RenDaHai]

Another question: it mentions the term 'wintersweet' for a dao form and mantis form, is there a better translation for that term, it seems to be Chinglish?

Its just an unusual translation of 'MeiHua' more commonly translated as plum blossom.

[Fa Xing]

That explains a lot! Thanks!

[Djuan]

ok good news is, I only need vol.1 m I found vol.2 for 50.00 thru abebooks ;) ......any one have a volume one for sale or trade for other books lets talkabout it!


Amituofo

[Djuan]

10710

this volume will help some, with understanding some the forms from the written side,
and probably send me on more hunts for translations.
10711 like the TOC is already a handful to read. :p

great for the collection either way, & all I need is vol 1 now, if any one knows where to find one for less than 500$ lol.

I know some of you OGs have poured through these volumes already, so if you have any pointers on how to put the poems to sense when need be, ANY help is welcome.
"learn to teach and teach to learn!" the scholarship must forward on!

Amituofo