MA and the Law.

[Laughing Cow]

Hi.

I know this is an often discusses topic.

In a few places where I lived the following rules/laws applied:

1.) If 2 or more people are fighting EVERYBODY is arrested and treated the same.
Regardless of circumstances, minimum charge will be "causing a disturbance" or similar.
2.) If a 3rd or "uninvolved" party incites a person to fight he can and will be legally prosecuted.

I am not going into weapons as the topic and views are too diversified as they are all based upon local conditions and personal experience.

Personally, I like the 2 above laws as they tend to make people think a bit more before getting into fights and similar.

Cheers.

[Becca]

Yep, very good laws, for the most part. I was working at a pizza joint part time and had the pleasure of seeing the 20 year old manager get into a fight with some former employee who came in to start something. I have never seen a cat fight quite that nasty before. Both got ticketted, but the one who came looking for a fight got hammered, as she had no other reason for being anywhere near the store.

I also get a kick out of the "Cop Talk and Police Blotter" in my local paper. Some woman picks a fight with her segnifigant other, looses, then calls the cops, claiming he hurt her. They must be idiot to think the cop is going to side with them when the guy has a bloody nose and black eye, when all she has is a slight rug burn from him pushing her away.:rolleyes:

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i still dont understand why necrophillia is illegal. frowned upon sure, but where are my rights???

[joedoe]

Do you prefer them still warm, or cold? :D

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

both.

[guohuen]

I view them as ignorant sissy laws instituted by those worms that like to give rather than recieve. Also further evidence that most of us live in only semi-benign police states masquerading as democracys.

[Oso]

I view them as ignorant sissy laws instituted by those worms that like to give rather than recieve. Also further evidence that most of us live in only semi-benign police states masquerading as democracys.

SWEET !

I've said it before...give me the Arthurian 'might makes right' every time.

I'd still take our semi-benign police state over some others that are out there, past and present.

[Unstoppable]

"give me the Arthurian 'might makes right' every time."

who is ARTHUR??????

[Becca]

King Aurther. You know, Camelott, Knites of the Round Table...

I like those laws because they encourage people to just walk away if they can. Some people jsut don't care enough to do the right thing unless someone makes it clear that they better or ELSE.

[Oso]

"give me the Arthurian 'might makes right' every time."

who is ARTHUR??????




cretin !!!


;)


*edit* quote didn't work correctly

[Judge Pen]

I think the law charging everyone involved in a fight is unfair in that it doesn't account for the possibility of justified action through self-defense. Of course, there is a difference in being charged and convicted.

[Shaolin-Do]

There were almost 5 fights at the river yesterday, but none of them went for it.
All people fighting were my friends.
I planned to stand and drink a beer, eat some chips, and watch the fights. I wouldnt jump in unless my friend was getting hurt, or jumped. In which case, I think it would be crap for me to get in trouble. But its crap any time I get arrested.....
:D

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
I think the law charging everyone involved in a fight is unfair in that it doesn't account for the possibility of justified action through self-defense. Of course, there is a difference in being charged and convicted.

There are 2 reasons for the law:

1.) To get the involved parties out of the street to a police station, where the situation can be sorted out.

2.) In those countries you are considered guilty of a crime until prooven innocent. Very few false arrests do happen in those countries though.

Said that back home where those laws apply, you are also required to carry a First Aid Kit in your Car/Bike and MUST give assistance in case of any accident.
First Aid training is compulsory and part of the process to get your drivers licence.

:D

[Fred Sanford]

I think it's your responsibility as a would be martial artist to know the local laws regarding fighting and use of force.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by Fred Sanford
I think it's your responsibility as a would be martial artist to know the local laws regarding fighting and use of force.

No argument there. A friends of mine got involved in an altercation in foreign countries and learned it the hard way.

As a general rule if you are a foreigner they will be harder on you.

[Diu Sao]

I'm a bouncer at a bar in Los Angeles and I have to say that the law, while practical in most situations is b*tch for me. There is usually one or more violent episodes where I work, luckily most of the people take off before the police are called. The main problem is that I don't get home until sometimes 5 or 6 in the morning, then I train until 3PM-9PM then right back to work at 10. This is a big problem because the court times are always at 8 in the morning. Not to mention the people you ended up beating the shizzle out of get to see your face in a well lit courtroom, hear your FULL name and they already know where you work! Not cool at all in Los Angeles. Anyway, I am all for the law I just feel that the police have to apply certain bends in it in order for it to be truly practical.

Sam Tripp

[Becca]

They even arrest bouncers?!? Glad I don't live in L.A. Here in Colorado they only charge private citisens. Bouncers are security personel, and can only get in deep sh!t if they use excessive force. They are consitered a vital part of public safety, and DO NOT get ticketed.

[Diu Sao]

Yeah we can get arrested, not to mention I had the police telling me to use lethal force against the guys (wich I totally didn't want to do even though it would have been easy). The most complicated part was trying to describe the techniques I used on the guys to the cops, they either: didn't understand or didn't believe me. They were like "there's no way you threw that guy, etc.." It's pretty messed up. Plus LAPD, sh*t, you gotta be super careful dealing with these guys, especially the Hollywood division.


Sam tripp

[Becca]

:( That's sad. Rules on self defence should protect you even if you aren't given some leaway as a security profesional.

That is one thing I give the local cops kudos for, though. They know the diference between a self inflicted wound and one that isn't. A freind of mine had a pscycho ex-wife who strangled herself almost to uncontiosness then tried to say he did it. She went to jail for false reporting.:)

[Fred Sanford]

sorry to disappoint but unless the laws vary wildly from state to state, security personnel are private citizens. When a security officer arrests someone it is under authority of a citizens arrest.

and starting sometime in 2004 in the state of California bouncers (and all in-house security types) are going to be required to get guard cards and actually get a little training. LOL.


Anyway, I am all for the law I just feel that the police have to apply certain bends in it in order for it to be truly practical.

no offense, but most bouncers don't know squat about the law as it is.

[Becca]

The laws are the same here; it is a courtacy given to security personel.

[Diu Sao]

It's true, the average bouncer couldn't contend with a doorknob in a spelling bee. I know the law and regardless, it needs some renditions.



Sam tripp