Physical Culture & Dodge Ball

[Black Jack]

I had a topic like this a month or so ago but not in the same context with regards to sports and your martial art training.

20th century sport scientists in the now defunct U.S.S.R found that athletes could benefit from participating in sports other than the one in which is their main core. This is no suprise as the same idea was used in 19th century western physical culture in the pursuit of all around general vibrance.

By doing so, you could tap a broader array of physiological and psychological skills. For example, it was common in Moscow and other soviet cities for wrestlers, to play twenty minutes of basketball as part of the warmup for their day-to-day training sessions and that their volleyball players trained in soccer exercises and drills for conditioning. During certain periods of training they knew that other sports can be used to make their athletes, quicker, stronger and more flexible.

The same principle can be used for martial training.

As an example last weekend I joined in a game of dodge ball at my gym, yep dodge ball, except this game was composed of athletes like college football players, this gym has a serious sports performance divison, as one of the owners is a college football coach, and they do all sorts of off the cuff biomotor training for strength, speed, agility, and quickness, which means they called it a sports ball reaction drill, but I am still calling it dodge ball. :D

The goal of the drill was to improve visual stimuli response and total-body quickness. From a martial standpoint you could see how this also translates to footwork, evasion skills, fast changes in direction, first step quickness, and so on.

Just food for thought so get out their and play some sports ball reaction drills-ummm-I mean dodge ball.

Cheers!

[ewallace]

I thought the clinton administration had made dodge ball illegal because some kids got their feelings hurt after not moving out of the way of a large ball traveling rapidly towards their their head. :)

[chen zhen]

I can imagine dodgeball being a good warm-up. gets your heart-rate up:cool:

[Oso]

Dodge ball is a regular drill in my kids class.
In the beginning it's for everything you said above.
Later I limit them to specific stances and methods of movement they have trained in. They are 'out' if they get hit OR if they don't user proper movement to evade.

I like raquetball as a crosstrainer.

[Black Jack]

ewallace- Ohh man I forgot all about that. LOL!

Dodge ball is banned in a ton of middle and elementary schools. Talk about PC run wild. Man it makes me hate stupid people all the more.

Back to topic-

Think of other sports not as a straight out exercise but from the martial perspective, with basketball you work on transition between skills and cutting angles, with soccer fast change of direction, flexibility in hips and footwork, take a look at sports training and striking mechanics.

Guohuen- Medicine ball rules! Its a field mine of plyometric drills.

Oso- Raquetball is a good one.

[shaolinboxer]

Dodgeball is now ILLEGAL (yes, you heard me right) in NYC public schools. It was decided over much debate that it leads to childen learning that the strong can pick on the weak.

Although I have fond memories of dodgeball, as I surveyed many of the people I know about their experieces, many showed signs of anxeity at the mention of the game.

Personally, I love dodgeball and always have.

But it's food for thought.

[Suntzu]

Dodge ball is banned in a ton of middle and elementary schools. Talk about PC run wild. Man it makes me hate stupid people all the more. school sucks more than it use to… dodge ball COULD be bad for the self-esteem...yeah all of that self esteem is really gonna come in handy behind the counter of Burger King…
Dodgeball is now ILLEGAL (yes, you heard me right) in NYC public schools. It was decided over much debate that it leads to childen learning that the strong can pick on the weak. that's bullsh!t… he\\… I was one of the smallest kids in class and dodgeball was one of the great equalizers… I loved taunting the similac kids and watch them get pis$ed b'cuz they couldn't hit me… now when football season came around… I kept my mouth shut...

[Oso]

It was decided over much debate that it leads to childen learning that the strong can pick on the weak.

but that's life and the truth. not saying it's right but it is reality.

I think it's a crime not to prepare children for life after our PC driven educational system.




strictly talking about old grade school games...what about that game where you formed up lines and linked arms and then clotheslined people from the other side as they tried to bust through your line?

that was cool.

illegal now I'm sure.

[ewallace]

Some activities of my youth that have helped in the later years:

- Throwing tennis balls at cars: taught me how to hit a moving target, helped me get used to adreneline rush...boy one pizza guy got really p/o'd and chased me thru a couple neighborhoods.

- Iceball fights (snowball held under a water spout): taught me the need to avoid hard objects attempting to make contact with body.

- Ding dong ditch: taught me that sometimes running is the best way to deal with a potential violent conflict. This applies to the tennis balls at cars exercise too.

- Throwing hershey chocolate syrup bottles at cars: taught me to know who the fu*$ you're dealing with, it just might be a cop at 2 in the morning.

- Smear the queer: Not everybody will like you, and most people just don't like queers. If you choose this path, get used to it.

[Lisa]

Dodgeball's illegal in some places?? Maybe they should just try using different balls. I remember getting hit with the balls we used in elementary school used to sting a bit if they hit your bare skin, but it was never that bad. If a kid got hurt, it was usually from either falling over or running into another kid, which could happen in any sport.

Back to the original topic, my class sometimes plays dodgeball as a warm-up.

[Lisa]

"strictly talking about old grade school games...what about that game where you formed up lines and linked arms and then clotheslined people from the other side as they tried to bust through your line"

Red Rover? People ALWAYS got hurt playing that one at my school. Being the shortest kid in class, I always got hit pretty high and rarely made it through. I hated that game.

[SaMantis]

dodge ball COULD be bad for the self-esteem...

Yeah it can be, in a middle school environment with all the issues of puberty at work, including low self-esteem thx to changing bodies, pimples, etc. Kids are trying to find their place in the pecking order and IMO nothing cements that order, for right or wrong, than the weekly dodgeball game.

Dodgeball, even in a well-supervised environment, is purely weak vs. strong. On paper it looks great, but when you hand a volleyball to a 13-year-old and tell him to go bean someone with it, the exercise shakes down to its lowest common denominator.

And dodgeball in my middle school wasn't supervised at all; the coach tossed a couple volleyballs onto the court, told everyone to pick sides and disappeared into his office for a wee drop. What happened? Negative ****, basically. Picking teams took on sexist, racist and bullying overtones. Weaker kids were stuck on the "nerd" team and just got whomped by the bigger kids.

Dodgeball may improve agility, but its negatives (often compounded by the school environment) far outweigh the benefits. There's little teambuilding, there's little chance to build self-esteem, and the game makes weaklings the object of ridicule (or subject to MORE ridicule than usual). In its basic form, sport is meant to improve the individual physically and mentally, regardless of his or her aptitude for it. Dodgeball is marginal in these areas and it makes a point of picking on weaker players.

I'm not totally slamming the activity -- I played sandlot dodgeball after school with friends and it was fun. But in a negative environment it's a horrible sport.

[ewallace]

The game's not about team unity or self esteem, it's about getting out of the way of a ball that's coming towards your head, and helping others do the same. :)

[Black Jack]

ewallace- no more true words have been spoken!:cool:

People that think dodgeball should be banned are not getting the point. Its about dodging the f@ckin ball. Tough crap if some little kid feels like he is not as fast as some other kid. That's the way of the world. It makes me sick that certain sectors of society believe that life should be a perfect straight line and that nobody is better than anybody else.

[SaMantis]

and helping others do the same.

But that's the problem. You can't really help others get out of the way except to yell "Look out!" And middle schoolers who actually help each other are fairly rare (or they were in my day).

The trouble is, at that age, team-building and self-esteem should be the paramount issues addressed in every part of the school day, including gym. Middle schoolers are painfully aware of "real life" and the fact that the strong pick on the weak, they deal with it in the school corridors and on the street (and sometimes at home).

So a structured physical program, at this age, should emphasize teamwork and teach the strong to help the weak.

[ewallace]

and teach the strong to help the weak.
Gotta disagree there. This is not the responsiblility of educators. That is a parent's responsibility.

By helping others I mean that after they get hit in the head a few times they will learn to avoid it.

[Chang Style Novice]

I think Terrifica is onto something here. In elementary and middle school, dodgeball just encourages bad stuff. School should be about building good traits, not bad ones. Not to deny the effectiveness of dodgeball at developing speed, eye-hand, alertness, etc. But those can also be taught in other sports that don't encourage a "Lord of the Flies" type scenario.

[ewallace]

School should be about building good traits, not bad ones.
Gotta disagree there too. School should be about education. Parenting should be about building good traits.

I understand your point of view (CSN and SA Mantis), but the only part I would give in to is that if a child doesn't want to play they shouldn't have to.

[rogue]

Competition of any kind shows that weakness is bad. What we really need to do is have activities where everyone can excell and be their best. Golf is a great example of this by having three sets of tee's, handicapping better players and emphasizing that you're playing against the course and not really the other players.

[Chang Style Novice]

Well, speaking as someone who spent too much time in middle and high school suspended above toilets and inside lockers (it wasn't much time, but any is too much.) I can say with some certainty that parents sometimes and even often fail to impart morality onto their kids. If it doesn't happen there, and it doesn't happen in school, it better happen somewhere, and it better happen early.

[Black Jack]

Maybe we should make every kid a homecoming king, queen, and valedictorian and class president so no one will feel inadequate.

Better yet, lets ban hopscotch because some kids parents might be drunks, and the name might be upsetting.

Total bs-its socialist garabage-with the kind of thinking that goes along with banning dodge ball, tag, and even duck-duck-goose all America will be doing is breeding wimp p-u-s-s-i-e-s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ewallace]

Better yet, lets ban hopscotch because some kids parents might be alcholics, and the name makes them thirsty.
That was freakin hilarious! :cool:

[Becca]

I don't remember dodge ball being all that bad, and I did suck at it. It has every thing to do with the teacher/instructor controlling the attitude of the class. Any child, no matter how well disciplined, will act out if they are allowed to. And they are usually more than willing to behave if they are encouraged to. You're putting blame on kids and a simple game when the blame should be on the kids' supervising adualts, both at home and at school. Remember the old saying, "It take a village to raise a child."

[Chang Style Novice]

Jesus, BlackJack, get a grip. I think dodgeball sucks, yeah, but I also think wrestling, boxing, and judo should be offered as intramural sports in every school from kindergarten onward. And I think they should be required up til sixth grade.

Don't tar me with that brush, got it?

[KC Elbows]

Dodgeball was for the weak anyway. It doesn't even teach "the strong should outdo the weak" properly, due to it's ineffective team structure.

Scatter is superior. No artificial team structure, the only rules are that you get three steps, and then you better bean someone, and everyone you take out gets to come back in if you get taken out. It teaches you to avoid being the straggler, and if you are the straggler, to be the vengeful vicious straggler who is alone because the rest fear you. It teaches you to watch out for your enemies getting the upper hand. Any aliances are transitory. It is much truer darwinism than dodgeball. Usually, the best at scatter are not those wussy jocks who freak out if they have to wear last years jeans, but the burnouts who have every intention of talking the teacher into using one of those fearsome burnt-orange balls so that they can exact a quick revenge on a comprehensive list of classmates, one broken nose at a time. These are the same burnouts who later form productive ventures while the rich kids are busy piddling away mom and dad's money on out of state colleges they select by their partying potential, whereas the burnout is usually already bored with that or dead by college age.

Dodgeball is and always will be one sad step above red rover in the grand sceme of things.

And school is about 1) socialization, and 2) education, always has been, always will be. It's a herding process. Teach everyone to get along and know their place, first priority. Once priority one is satisfied, then priority two, education, can be done that much easier.

The only thing dodgeball teaches you mentally is to be herded. It has nothing to do with strongest vs. weakest, because the weak on your own team are sheltered from you, not to mention that if a ruthless math game were also so standardized, the strongest would likely be an entirely different group. It's meaningless, because the people who dominate probably aren't the winners in life in the long run. They're just on the winning dodgeball team.

Methinks the Morgan's had the child killed who dared throw a ball at their precious, but weird, JP. I'd estimate he probably saved the jobs of a horde of dodgeball winners. Not out of any kindness, just to show them who's boss and all. Course, he still died ugly, but I digress.

So, for reflexes, scatter is superior to dodgeball, because you need to watch your friends as well as your enemies, thus developing better situational awareness.

[ZIM]

WRT Dodgeball teaching "bad values": it doesn't really matter if they banned it; the same principle moved to TV- Survivor, Big Bro., MTV's Real Life, et al., are all "dodge ball" & they are both popular and influential to young mush-filled brains.

Everybody expects that a 10 year old is gonna be a self-centered pr!ck, but they also expect that they'll grow out of it. The horrible fact is: some ppl grow into it. I think parking your child in front of the tube does that pretty well.

BAN EVERYTHING!!!! :p Nah, not that- but at least if you're playing dodge ball for real it gives you perspective & experience NOT to be a pr!ck when you grow up... [hopefully]

[SaMantis]

Becca, you're right, that's exactly what can make dodgeball a bad game: lack of control on the teacher's part. (It can make any game go bad; it just happens faster in dodgeball.)

BlackJack, I don't subscribe to socialist bs anymore than I believe everyone should be homecoming queen/king. There's always going to be winners and losers even in the fairest sport (even in golf, handicaps and all). But lumping abuse on the losing side, or on the weakest kid, teaches all the wrong lessons to both sides.

School should be about education. Parenting should be about building good traits.

Unfortunately it's never going to be as easy as that.

[MasterKiller]

First of all, we are talking about the State-sponsored dodgeball created in the early 50's, which standardized the rules and replaced the martial aspects with neo-hippy rules of teamwork and togetherness.

Real dodgeball is only practiced in secret sandlots throughout the mid-West because the moves are too deadly for public knowledge.

[Robinf]

foot baseball works well, too, for TKD. Pitch a nerf or paper tape ball and use your feet as the bat.

[ewallace]

You mean kickball? :)

[Robinf]

Nope. Footbaseball. TKD uses kicks at or above waist level. It's challenging to hit a small, moving ball with your foot before it hits the ground.

Kickball is a different game where the ball is rolled and only used a soccer type frontkcik.

[Robinf]

Also, dodgeball wouldn't be so controversial if teachers would stop using basket balls and soccer balls. Get some nerf and hold up the rules of no head/face beeming.

[ewallace]

That sounds pretty fun.

[MasterKiller]

We played dodge ball with those softer, red, bouncy balls. They still hurt when you got hit, but they would rebound like crazy, making multiple shots possible.

[SaMantis]

Our coach used to let about half the air out of 3-4 volleyballs and put all of them into play at the same time. No rules about beanies to the head/face/groin areas. Those things hit hard and left welts.

[KC Elbows]

We never recognized multiple shots. It was sort of like "If it was a rock, it wouldn't really take that other guy out, too, would it?" sort of thing. What you were practicing was false gym sports, not traditional.

We used the oversized burnt orange ones, which were worse than basketballs, volleyballs, etc, due to the added mass. Mostly they were used for kickball, but we'd convince the teacher to let us use them for scatter and dodgeball. They threw pretty well, if you were a good thrower.

[MasterKiller]

By multiple, I don't mean ricohet shots. I mean you could hit a loser, and the ball would bouce back to you, so you could quickly hit another loser.

In our spare time, we played a game called wall-ball. We would stand about 25 feet back from a high wall (usually a church, as the parking lot was big and empty). We would take turns throwing a handball at the wall. Once it hit the wall, it was allowed to touch the ground once before someone caught it, at which time it was their turn to throw the ball.

However, if you dropped the ball during an attempted catch, or if it accidentally touched you on the rebound, you had to run and tag the wall before someone else could pick up the ball and bean you with it. If you touched the wall, we started again, but if you were beaned before reaching the wall, you had to stand face-first against the wall while everyone else took a free shot at you with the ball from 20 feet out.

That was a great game.

[KC Elbows]

You have dominatrix numbers on your speeddial, don't you?:D

[Shaolin-Do]

I used to get in trouble for throwing the balls to hard and hitting people in the head. I have good aim. :)

[Oso]

There are some new types of balls out there...'Gator' is one brand name but there are others. They are light foam cores but with a rubbery skin that is dimpled somewhat. The 6'' round ones weigh maybe a couple of ounces but due to the dimpling will track straight when thrown. The can be thrown with good speed but, having no mass to speak of, will not cause injury or even knock down a 5 year old. The first time I introduced them to class I had a 5 year old bet nailed right in the chest with a good audible 'swack!'. It took a second for the kid to realize he wasn't hurt and hadn't gotten knocked down. They are pretty sweet. You can get them as small as 3'' and up to 12''. The 3" ones are good for older kids and even adults get a kick, and a workout, from it.

With adults I like to toss 3 balls into the circle and if you get hit you have to drop for 5 or 10 pushups and then get back up and go at it again.

I'm not an advocate of injury but as many have said it's a metaphor for life, especially the 'Scatter' version of it.

We are insulating our children under a false sense of protecting them. As the PC attitudes have swelled since the middle of the last century I think the incidents of maladjusted people has increased. Who the crap cares if David said or did a mean thing to your Johhny. It's going to keep happening to him throughout his intire life. The ONLY difference is that all to often it will not be right there in your face but some sort of back stabbing event at work.



so, you see, we really need to institute a non-lethal form of dueling in grade school. Let the offended kid make a complaint to the principle. The principle contact the families of both kids and set up a wrestling/judo type match and let the kids muck it out. The stronger kid will win and the weaker kid will either get stronger or not. Social Darwinism at it's finest if you ask me.
:D ;)


The strong should alway win, it's the way it's been forever, if h o m o sapian sapian hadn't had what it took to excell then we wouldn't be here as we are now. We are weakening the gene pool day by day and that will be the true death of us.

[Oso]

I almost forgot about the best 'metaphor for life' ball game...

"Calvin Ball" as seen in the comic strip "Calvin & Hobbes".

Almost anything goes and the rules keep changing..............

[shaolin kungfu]

so, you see, we really need to institute a non-lethal form of dueling in grade school. Let the offended kid make a complaint to the principle. The principle contact the families of both kids and set up a wrestling/judo type match and let the kids muck it out. The stronger kid will win and the weaker kid will either get stronger or not. Social Darwinism at it's finest if you ask me.

I'm not sure if you were joking,but this seems like somewhat of a good idea. The kids have to learn that mommy won't always be there to make everything ok. If the kids really don't want to fight, they will appollogize(sp).

[Shaolin-Do]

I think that the high school police officers should double as referees, and always carry around a pair of boxing gloves and a whistle. Let the kids put on gloves and duke it out. That would be great... funny stuff... ha... ha....
:)
Im still really tired, and my stomach is still VERY unhappy with the cheap tequila I drank last night.

[Black Jack]

No Chang I don't ......"got it":rolleyes:

Banning dodgeball is straight up tarded. With that in mind lets put the kids who hoop and hollar on the special bus in the regular school bus if we are going to go all the way with this thinking.

Next lets ban jump rope because some kid might use it as a thugge strangling device or make all kids in the same class wear diapers because little Joe still likes the feeling of taking a warm crap in his britches and gosh darn if we don't want him to feel as special as he wants to be.

Don't you just love the power of democratic mob rule.

btw- nice ability to keep it on track people....keerist on a snickerbar talk about some contributing.:D

[KC Elbows]

You don't have the kind of post count it takes to talk smack to us, Black Jack. So when we say dodgeball is the strong picking on the weak, and that it has to go, you just better agree, capiche?

[KC Elbows]

:D

[Chang Style Novice]

Black jack -

**** you and your straw man argument. Don't put words in my mouth, ever.

Got it?

[ZIM]

Not everyone knows how to evade the censoring software on the boards, so that will just have to go. :D

[SaMantis]

Dam, CSN & BlackJack are gettin' their blood up ...

Meet in the schoolyard at 3 p.m.? :D


MasterKiller, I remember wall ball ... learned it in Texas as a kid. Would you believe no one back east has ever heard of it?

[Chang Style Novice]

I'm sorry, usually Black Jack is a pretty good guy, but when the topic turns to anything remotely political, he argues against what he wants to think his opponents believe instead of what they actually say. It's annoying, uninformative and basically completely useless.

[Daredevil]

Man, this thread makes me SO happy I don't live in America.

Anyway, I love dodgeball, was always good at it even when really young and not at all that good at other sports.

As for crosstraining in other sports, I definately think it's beneficial. If not directly in relation to your chosen area of expertise, but to -- as the thread already mentioned -- to make you feel generally physically vibrant.

[MasterKiller]

MasterKiller, I remember wall ball ... learned it in Texas as a kid. Would you believe no one back east has ever heard of it?

And they call us uncultured....;)

[Black Jack]

I will do whatever I want.........."got it"......."got it"........."got it".........."got it"........ woooo......man with all those got it's I think I just got so scared I craped my britches like little Joe.

You seem to be finding something I stated to be directed at you or as you put it I am inserting words into your mouth. That can only be the case if you find that dodgeball is not evil and that it should not be destroyed and I am saying you said it is.

I find it pretty funny you are so bent out of shape.:p

[Shaolin-Do]

I never get bent out of shape. I try to eat enough chocolate ho-ho's to keep myself nice and round.

[Black Jack]

I found where you thought I was saying something to you. If it was the make every kid a valedictorian than that was to SaMantis otherwise I don't know what the f@ck you are talking about.

Either way with that kind of attitude you can go get bent. No Christmas card for you spanky.

[Badger]

On the next Oprah: Adults who were affected by Dodgeball as Children....


Audience Guy: "Get over it & Toughin up ya Wussies!"

[SaMantis]

I never get bent out of shape. I try to eat enough chocolate ho-ho's to keep myself nice and round.

Mmm ... don't forget the beer ... ;)

[Shaolin-Do]

God no. Im not drinking for at least a week. I can handle my alcohol like a f*cking crazy fat alcoholic man (im a skinny non alcoholic) But that 13$ bottle of tequila... ta-kill-ya I mean.... Had me pukin yellow sh!t up this morning... eww. I havent had to yarf from drinking in like 1 1/2 years... Till that **** evil "montezuma" .... I should have expected "montezuma's revenge" when I found that the bottle was still full for some reason....

[SaMantis]

LOL@Masterkiller! :D

Trying to explain wallball to a bunch of reservists:

ME: "So, you throw the ball against the wall --"
THEM: "Against the wall?"
ME: "Yes, and if you drop it, you try to touch the wall before you get beaned."

THEM: [collective] "Er..."

ME: "Oh, f*ck it. Let's play dodgeball, everyone." :D

[SaMantis]

yah, I don't do tequila anymore. that stuff just encourages you to be irresponsible ...

YOU: "Hey, I wonder what tinfoil tastes like?"
TEQUILA: "Go ahead! Try it!"

[Becca]

Originally posted by Badger
On the next Oprah: Adults who were affected by Dodgeball as Children....


Audience Guy: "Get over it & Toughin up ya Wussies!"

I think it has les to do with dodgeball and more to do with boardom and too much pent up anger...:D

[Chang Style Novice]

Tequila drinkers:

Your mistake is getting the cheap stuff. If you get good, expensive tequila

a - it has way fewer of the really brain-owifying poisons.

b - you won't drink it all at once since it costs so much

I recommend Herradura and Chinaco.

Black Jack -

Okay, fine. Do what you want. But you ought to know that when you make arguments like the one you made upthread, you look like an idiot with no reading comprehension.

[Shaolin-Do]

When I buy liquor I buy-
Tequila-Patron, Cabo wabo, Sauza Gold, El Tesoro
Whiskey - Makers mark, Crown royal
Vodka- Belvedier, Gray Goose
Rum- Gotta go with filthy ol' Captain Mo's and Bacardi
Dekruypers are the only "flavored liquors" that I buy.
Dont really drink gin.
Last night I just didnt feel like drinking beer, and I found a big full bottle of really cheap tequila. And it found a big empty stomach, and later I decided to go yell in the porcelin mic.
YOU: "Hey, I wonder what tinfoil tastes like?"
TEQUILA: "Go ahead! Try it!"
lol
Thats just nasty.
:)

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
...you ought to know that when you make arguments like the one you made upthread, you look like an idiot with no reading comprehension.

There is a tradeoff between dodgeball skill and reading skill. One must make sacrifices for their art.:D

[Chang Style Novice]

"Tesoro"

Um, I hate to break it to you, but that's unleaded gasoline. Man, you must have one amazing hangover.

[MasterKiller]

As important as reading skills are, the old temples taught that if a person goes to gradeschool and learns little more than how to read, he was not educated.

If you are a young person in school, do not sacrifice dodge ball for reading; even if you learn to read, a tool with a dull edge is a dull tool of limited use.

[KC Elbows]

MasterKiller, could you make that into a school house rock song?

[Shaolin-Do]

El tesoro is pretty good tequila actually....
I tink I be spellin it wrong tho.
anyhow, patron and cabo wabo are my fav., but god ****ed patron just costs waaaay too much.

[shaolinboxer]

You may find it interesting to note that at some public schools (in NYC) running is illegal. Yes, as in what comes after walking when you want to move quickly. A kid ran on the playground and split his skull open on a pipe. The famility sued the school, and now there is no running.

Absurd, but true.

[fa_jing]

I played dodgeball a couple times in Gym class, and as one of the 3 most picked-on kids in the class, many more balls came my way. I don't think we realized it was a team game, either.

But it does look like fun and a good drill, now. I think the problem of teachers letting kids get harassed on a daily basis is a serious one - but there is a lot of worse sh!t I went through than dodgeball. I mean, I was in 13 fights by the time I finished elem school. And verbal taunting was probably worse.

My parents sent me to school lookin like a fool, though. Fricken home haircuts, old-ass clothes etc.


Now for a happier subject: Liquor. Rum = Barbados English Bay, Jamaican White rum, Colombian Rum (Ron Tres Esquinas, Ron Medellin)

When I was in Panama, they had a great gin "Gin Caballito"

I like tequila, too. But my buddy WaterDragon said the same thing, he only drinks $30 tequila and up.

[Shaolin-Do]

Old clothes eh?
I **** near set a f*ckin trend wearing clothes from "thrift town"
Play your cards right and you can make anything look cool.
:)
especially if you wear you "cool" glasses.:cool:
Kids up north must be really mean or some sh!t. We always picked on several people, that way no one person got the brunt of it.
I actually went to this kids house 1 year ago and apologized for all of the grief I caused him, cause I heard that the poor kid kept getting picked on through highschool and tried to kill himself. I hadnt seen him since my cruel days of elementary school, but I felt hella bad none the less.

[Chang Style Novice]

a confession: I bought a 1.75 liter bottle of vodka called (I think) "Texas Pride" at Costco this weekend for <$12.00. So I'm not really one to talk about avoiding cheap liquor. I was just making vodka tonics with it, so I didn't figure there was any serious need for the $$$$ stuff.


"Texas Pride" vodka - that's gotta be one for the record books, tovarich.

[fa_jing]

Man, you wouldn't make it through a public elementary school in Philly even if you went now, I can see that.

[KC Elbows]

I'm absolutely amazed it took kids so long to start gunning each other down with assault rifles, considering grades 6-12. I remember one guy at our school getting put in psychiatric care after stabbing another kid with a pocket knife. He was hounded, seriously hounded for years. Nowadays, they'd just napalm the area.

[Shaolin-Do]

Sheeot...
I dont want to sound snobby, egotistical, ect, but Ive never had a problem being "popular". I never really liked all the "popular" kids tho... I would go to their parties, but I always hung out (and still do) with the stoners. They just tend to make better friends.
I bought clothes from the thrift store all the way from middle through high school.... In elementary, in all honesty, I was always in the fly gear like the newest air jordans, and nike apparel....
By the time I was in 9th grade and in full filthy stoner mode, I had almost nothing but thrift store clothes. No one ever said anything besides "hey dude, thats a bad ass shirt! whered you get it?"
"Thirft town, mo****a"
They have hella cool t-shirts... Get down on the button downs on occasion too. Always buy nice pants tho.

[Shaolin-Do]

On a side note : children are very very cruel people, most havent really established "empathy" yet. I taught elementary school a couple years ago... Those kids are pretty mean to each other...
Was a PAL in middle school... (peer assistance leader)
Would have been one in highschool but the spanish teacher sent the PAL coordinator a nice 2 page long essay on my hyjinx throughout the year....
b!tch.
:)

[Ford Prefect]

Dodgeball is one of the best games for seperating the athletically gifted and aggressive from the weaklings and wimps. You just couldn't help but nail that nerdy kid so hard that it was like you hit him with a grenade because glasses and shoes went flying off. Every once and while it was worth getting called out for nailing some oblivious player with a head shot. Greatest game ever. If they had adult leagues, I'd play.

[ewallace]

What HS did you go to?

Philly kids aren't mean, they just aren't very bright. That's how they raise them so they can cheer athletes when they get seriously injured. :)

[Shaolin-Do]

Went to macarthur, decided to smoke lots of weed and stopped going to macarthur Jr. Year. Luckily I had enough credits to transfer to ACE, and graduate on time.
:)

[fa_jing]

SD: yeah, sure lots of trendy stoner save-the-whales types were at my highschool (magnet), but elem school was a different matter - you had to be ready to fight and if you were reluctant as I was, you fought more. Plus I was tall and uncoordinated at the time so I made a nice target.

One of the biggest busts around that time was "your mama shops at Kmart"

You probably don't remember that time, you know right before people started wearing ripped clothes as a fashion statement and such.

[Shaolin-Do]

I never tried to save the whales, and thought holes in your clothes were tacky.
I just bought lots of funny t-shirts, and some cool ... wtf are they called... waiveras?
4 pockets on the shirt on the front?
Dont know how to spell it....
Was the first white dude at mac to have dreadlocks... :)
least in recent times.
Never really jumped on any trends.... Set a few... never followed tho. Got pizzed when people started doing what ever I do. Lots of preps started buying dugouts after I showed them all my nifty "stoner toy" and now all the f*ckers i know want to go to the same place I do to buy pipes... But I dont tell them where it is :)
And all of my bad ass t-shirts have been stolen since highschool.... I see my friends wearing them on occasion....
:D

[MasterKiller]

Went to macarthur, decided to smoke lots of weed and stopped going to macarthur Jr.

My school was called MacArthur as well. Just another piece of evidence in my hypothesis that SD is really bizarro me.

[ewallace]

I wonder if your Mac sucked in sports as much as the one here. :)

[Black Jack]

Some of you people really have a talent for f@cking up a good post topic. Makes me wonder if what Shooter said about this place is on the money.

[rogue]

If Bruce Lee played dodgeball, he'd be the ultimate dodgeball player. And he'd make some wicked good movies about it too.

[ewallace]

You just couldn't help but nail that nerdy kid so hard that it was like you hit him with a grenade because glasses and shoes went flying off.

Never got the shoes to do that.

[MasterKiller]

I wonder if your Mac sucked in sports as much as the one here

My senior year, we lost the Oklahoma 4-A State Football Championship game 44-3.

:(

My last real game, and it sucked.

[Shaolin-Do]

Real men play dodgeball with those spiney fruits that only come in during the end of the summer.
Or play hacky sack with rocks.
MK-You may be right. Im good looking to.
:eek:
:D

[Shaolin-Do]

Theres only one way to really know....
which foot do you wear your left shoe on?

[MasterKiller]

MK-You may be right. Im good looking to.

Piece of evidence #3,401: SD lies all the time, whereas I seek truth.

;)

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by Black Jack
Some of you people really have a talent for f@cking up a good post topic. Makes me wonder if what Shooter said about this place is on the money.

Um, BJ, you helped hijack your thread on the first page. Now put the pipe down and tend to your thirty kids before they trample the plants.:p

[Shaolin-Do]

lofl
Piece of evidence #3,401: SD lies all the time, whereas I seek truth.

But what about piece of evidence #2,407?


MK's crusty socks. He wears black socks, cause they never get dirty, and the longer you wear them the stronger they get.

[Ford Prefect]

If Rogue was any more correct, he'd have to change his screen name to Mr Correcto.

[Shaolin-Do]

Sounds like some type of wierd geeky teacher porno.

[Shaolin-Do]

"Ill fix that right up for you... just let me get my... sharpie...."

hehe
anyways, Im off of work.
So goodbye.
Have a nice day.
See you all tmorrow.
PEACE!
SD

[Chang Style Novice]

The movie is one of those lurid '70s spectacles in the tradition of a James Bond thriller. It has an extravagant villain and involves international skullduggery at a dodgeball tournament on an island fortress near Hong Kong. (Lee, who was born in San Francisco but grew up in Hong Kong, speaks with a beautiful Hong Kong English accent.)

The villain, Han (Shih Kien), is a ``renegade monk,'' as the movie has it, from the Shaolin Temple who now runs an international drugs and prostitution ring. Lee (that's his character's name, too) is the temple's leading dodgeball practitioner and is recruited by an international intelligence agency to stop Han.

While the James Bond ambience is clearly present, and there is some of that sex play, none of it involves Lee, who is nothing if not spiritually focused. Instead, John Saxon stands in for the playboy adventurer type, and there is an African American competitor played by dodgeball champion Jim Kelly. Also reflecting the era in which the film was made, Kelly is presented as a Black Power figure.

There are several tournament dodgeball games, a cat-burglar sequence in which Lee is so charismatic that he steals a scene from a snake, and the climactic hall-of-mirrors showdown with Han, when Lee stealthily approaches, his advancing image reflected again and again across the screen.

Somehow, I'm just not seeing it, Rogue.
:p

[Black Jack]

KC

Dude I don't know if your combover lets the sun in so much it scrambles your brain but I brought the subject right back on topic on the first page after a brief laugh with ewallace.

It was others who decided they had to voice their concern over the psychological dangers of dodgeball. I admit that I did post after the first page on the new hijacked topic but at that point it was a lost cause IMO.

[KC Elbows]

BJ,
The fault lies not with my combover, but with the belief that a topic, once hijacked, especially by it's originator, can somehow be returned to it's origin with one offhand comment. Since you've been here quite a long time, I just can't believe you don't know this. When combined with a thread about dodgeball, you're talking high risk of the kfm effect.

Anyway, threadjacking is the memberships way of saying "We like you, but your topic sucks". :p

Although thanks for bringing up my combover. It's almost like having a full head of hair.

[CrippledAvenger]

Okay Black Jack, I'll bite.

Dodgeball aside, what games would you teach children or classmates to help them warm up and develope certain skills? My list would go as follows:

For pain resistence and staying on your feet: Rugby, hands down. There's nothing like it on this earth for teaching you how dangerous it is to get brought down in the middle of a fight, especially after someone cleats you in a ruck. Also teaches you to keep your head up.

For handspeed and hand accuracy: handball (yeah, I know it sounds dirty). Just watched some film footage of Harry Greb training for a fight and the first thing he would do every morning is play a few games of handball with the owner of his gym, Philedelphia Jack O'Brian. Gonna start adding it into my workout as soon as I finish my finals, I think.

For sheer agility, I'd argue soccer, especially if you're playing as a striker. You have stay light on your toes, control the ball, stop on a dime, cut directions. Excellent workout too.

For leg strength, I'd also argue soccer. Learning how to swing your weight through a kick to give it distance is one of the first things any good soccer coach will teach you.

For sheer lungs, I'd say swimming. Those guys are freakish.

And as far as dodgeball goes, I don't ever remember it truly being painful until we started playing with those minature novelty basketballs that they'd give away as promotional items. Those things left some nasty welts.

[KC Elbows]

**** straight on the handball thing.

Rugby and football are both okay, although if I'm sparring a lot, I doubt I'll add another high injury activity to my routine. I'll just spar more.

Wrestling is good.

For the hippies, hacky sack is good for foot coordination. Plus, it's fun to wathc people who don't know what they're doing.

There, I did my part to avoid BJ having a combover too.

[CrippledAvenger]

Originally posted by KC Elbows
**** straight on the handball thing.

Rugby and football are both okay, although if I'm sparring a lot, I doubt I'll add another high injury activity to my routine. I'll just spar more.

Wrestling is good.

For the hippies, hacky sack is good for foot coordination. Plus, it's fun to wathc people who don't know what they're doing.

There, I did my part to avoid BJ having a combover too.

Fair enough on the hard sparring. I was thinking that Rugby should be more of a sport taught to high school kids without any martial training "per se". I certainly don't think it'd be a good idea in gym classes though. the liability would be through the roof (esp. considering that my rugby team lost about 7 of us to bad injuries this year).

Never really got into hackey sack, though, but I can see it having some effect on coordination.

What about squash or an another indoor game like that for working on agility and hand-eye coordination?

[KC Elbows]

I don't see anything wrong with that. I'll bet jai alai(sp) would be mad good for hand eye coordination, also, if anyone knew how the heck to play it.

[rubthebuddha]

dodgeball was good for a ton of reasons -- one of the better ones being awareness. just cause giant lad #1 has a ball and is aching to give you a welt with it doesn't mean giant lad #2 isn't just outside of your peripheral vision and wanting to pelt you even harder than his pal. you have to be quick, aware, agile, willing to take a dive, willing to take a shot, and willing to give one back when you get the chance.

you also gotta be willing to run away like a nancy boy when giant lad #2 gets upset over the fact that you just burred the word "ba-den" into his face with your well-placed toss.

and if you're just a nancy boy by default, you can at least use other talents. as long as you can position yourself so someone else is between giant lad #1 and you, you're safe for a bit. play your cards right, and while you may not get 34 "kills" like giant lad #1. you may just get only one -- and that would be giant lad #1, after he's nixed everyone else. last man standing wins, no matter how he gets there.

it's like auto racing. sure, the dude who leads the most laps gets five points. but if the winner gets 1,000, who gives a fock who leads any lap but the last?

[Black Jack]

You are right KC I should know of the kfm effect. It's not a rare event. Not as rare lets say as a turd in the shape of a praying christ.

It goes something like....post a topic on shrud and you get 10,000 hits....post something about martial arts and you get maybe 100 hits.....unless said post is hijacked in which you can score the 10,000 hit mark.

At what point though does this become retardare?

Has anybody taken notice of late that a lot of the old timers who liked to talk martial talk don't come by that often anymore?


Avenger- I was writting about what adults can do to increase their combative skills via cross-training in modern sports and not kids.

But for kids your list was good except I doubt you could find a parent that would let their precious play Rugby.:D

It's almost as dangerous on a physical level as Dodgeball is on a emotional level.

[CrippledAvenger]

BJ--

I think that most of the same would hold true for adults playing sports as it would for children. The only real advantages younger children have over adults (I think) in cross training sports are less fixed patterns of movement, increased flexibility, and quicker healing. But I still see playing games as both a viable training method for adults and a pretty accurate barometer of one's improvement.

Annecdotally, after only two (well, more like one and a half with my former injury) seasons of rugby I'm finding it much easier to keep my balance when rough-housing with my cousins. So, it's not like you magically can't get skill from games as you get older-- it's just possibly a slower process to get good at games and to move in unfamiliar ways. Hell, the first time I had to tackle a 205 lb back was a real wakeup call as to how lots of mass and momentum can be surprisingly difficult to overcome. Now? At least I know enough to use his center of gravity against him (not claiming I'm great at the tackling yet, you understand ;) I'm just a lowly winger) by getting lower and driving up through him.

It's a shame this thread got side-tracked, because I think this is a pretty interesting subject. Would instructors be better off teaching some core principles of movement through games as opposed to drills?

edit: god, I can't believe I misspelled around thirty words. embarassing.

[CrippledAvenger]

Originally posted by Black Jack
....But for kids your list was good except I doubt you could find a parent that would let their precious play Rugby.:D

It's almost as dangerous on a physical level as Dodgeball is on a emotional level.

That is so true. I don't want my kid growing up to think it's okay to go out, play an intensely violent game and leave the aggression on the field to go out for brats and beer with his or her opponents! No sirree! That's just asking for trouble!

;)

[KC Elbows]

BJ,
That's because there's only so much that can be said about any one topic, but there is no end to stupidity.

[ewallace]

Eventually it would become two-hand-touch rugby anyway to satisfy all the wussy kids' parents. :)

[Shaolin-Do]

I still play hacky sack.
And frisbee golf
and basketball....
Thats about it. Footbal on occasion.
Wall ball would be good for hand eye however.
And 2 hand touch rugby would be for nancy boys.
:)

[Becca]

Hacky sack is cool! I'm trying to teach my oldest boy how to play. Hasn't dawned on him it is more than a game yet. You get extra work out when you throw a 15 month old into the mix. Every time we drop it, he picks it up and runs, wildly giggling.:D (His favorite game is "Chase The Baby".) We also do "family Jump rope-a-thons", and Skate boarding to practice ballence. It never dawned on me to try dodge ball with him. Even the baby could get in on that, if we're carefull.

[Shaolin-Do]

Hacky sack is fun :)
So is frisbee golf.
Woohoo!
Boss just brought in free tacos!
:)

[Black Jack]

KC you are right on that mark.

This could of been a good topic on games and drills....something which has not been talked about much here in detail.....come to think about it, I should of put it on the training forum, and I doubt I would of had these problems.

Me thinks I should pay more attention to the specific forums.

[guohuen]

This tread should go to the Smithsonian as a prime example of why Johnny Can't play dodge ball anymore.:D If I were to buy into this protective parent/government psycobabble Id be out there circulating a petition to ban stairs because people get hurt on them. It's funny. Occasionaly I have memories of being beaten as a child. Sometimes I relive combat in my dreams. Yet as many times as I've been knocked off my feet with a soccer/basketball/medicine ball ect. I don't feel the need for therapy or firearms.:p I discovered at a young age how to develope compromises with overprotective parenting. At four years old I as climbing a tree and my mother said to get down this instance. I said no. I got down after I picked the fruit I climbed up to get.:p

[Chang Style Novice]

You guys ever done any Shuai Chiao-type bag tossing? That's a pretty good drill, and it seems like it could be made into a game with no t much trouble.

[rubthebuddha]

we could have pickup dodgeball games. it'd be like fight club, but for l'il kids.