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Suntzu
06-02-2003, 09:16 AM
what i just said...

Ford Prefect
06-02-2003, 10:39 AM
I like Grappler's Toolbox, but I thought Zdoryve (or whatever) was one of the biggest rip-offs. I hear warrrior wellness is along the lines of the Zdoryve stuff.

Suntzu
06-02-2003, 11:13 AM
how do u think it was a rip off... besides costing too much...

Ford Prefect
06-02-2003, 12:11 PM
No real new information. It was stating the obvious:

1) Work your ROMS (arm circles, shoulder circles, etc)

2) Stretch

3) Core strength

4) General Physical Preparedness

It had a few cool drills for some of this stuff, but definately not worth the price of admission. There were some funky breathing drills he did too, and I honestly tried to apply them to submission fighting, but they didn't do anything for me after a month. Doing different types of cardio and wind sprints worked better.

yenhoi
06-02-2003, 01:50 PM
There was a guy toteing warrior wellness as the wave of the future, Im sure there are some leftover posts.... might have been before the forum move, tho.



:eek:

Kempo Guy
06-02-2003, 06:45 PM
I've found the Warrior Wellness series to be great! I think it's very important to understand that Warrior Wellness series are not workout programs in the traditional sense, i.e. it does not show you calisthenics exercises, nor traditional strength and conditioning routines and such. If you are looking for these types of publications I urge people to look at Pavel or Scrapper's material.

This series about "joint health" (increasing your ROM), dynamic relaxation, flexibility and strength. These tapes are "follow-along" type of tapes, which is a deviation from Coach Sonnon's usual material (with the exception of Be Breathed). Much of the material has been taken out of Zdorovye series, but put into a 'coherent' series of exercises, which builds progressively from the first tape through the third. To be honest, after viewing these tapes my understanding of how to use Coach Sonnon's other material became much clearer.

Tape one starts off with pretty basic material to recover your ROM. It starts with neck exercises, then to shoulders, elbows, wrists, fingers, chest, spine... you get the idea. Tape two and three becomes increasingly more sophisticated in it's movement (patterns) and I would say that most people would probably not get to these two tapes unless they've really internalized the material on tape one by daily practice. All of these exercises carry over to Coach Sonnon's other material (fisticuffs, shockability etc.)
FWIW, I used WW tape 1 for about four months of almost daily practice before moving on to tape 2. In these four months I recovered near full mobility in my shoulders (I've had chronic injuries in them for years). I use the WW material as a supplement to my other conditioning (such as Kettlebells, bodyweight workouts etc.) as they are not intended to be used in place of them.

I am a big supporter of Coach Sonnon's material and own quite a few of his tapes, including Zdorovye, Warrior Wellness, Maximology as well as his more fighting focused tapes such as fisticuffs, grappler's toolbox and shockability. There's really too much material on each tape for an individual to absorb and requires diligent study of a few of the exercises for probably a few months for it to have any value. I do know that GTB, Fisticuffs and Shockability series have had a big impact on my fighting ability and have aided in greater understanding of movement principles, breathing and flow-state performance. If you are looking for technique oriented instruction, I would NOT recommend these tapes.

Hope this helps,
KG

Suntzu
06-03-2003, 06:09 AM
Thanks… I'm trying to absorb Leg Fencing right now… a lot of material… his stuff is quite expensive… but for the $$$, u do get A LOT of info… next on my list was either IOUF or Fisticuffs but I am curious about the WW… might go on my wishlist…

Ford Prefect
06-03-2003, 06:22 AM
IOUF isn't bad. It's actually a refreshing view on throws and the like. Fisticuffs is even worse than Zdorvye.

Suntzu
06-03-2003, 07:10 AM
I have my doubts about Fisticuffs… I really only want the Performance Spiral video and the upper body movement exercises… does IOUF have many drills or is it mostly concepts?

Ford Prefect
06-03-2003, 07:47 AM
Concepts. Some interesting new looks at unbalancing and collapsing. Typical sonnon stuff with "movement vectors" etc. I guess a lot of sonnon's stuff is good if you're not too well-read about strength training and fitness. It's just you can get a lot more material than he covers for about $1.50 in late charges at your local library. Guess that's true about most of these fitness guru's nowadays though. It's really a good racket. I think I'm going to change my name and say I trained in some Eastern block country.

Kempo Guy
06-03-2003, 10:32 AM
FWIW, I rather enjoyed fisticuffs... :confused: The movement drills in the first tape (prime you bioenergy) are great drills. Again, I have to state that the exercises shown in the tape should be done for the sake of movement... you're not supposed to 'extrapolate' striking combinations and such while doing them.

As for IOUF and Arthrokinetics (I have IOUF and a couple of the Arthro tapes), they are great. I've successfully used principles from IOUF and GTB in competition (gi grappling) and am working on priciples of Arthro with some law enforcement officers. I also use principles of fisticuffs and shock absorbtion in my mma training with great success.

As Ford mentions, Sonnon's material are all about force vectors, biomechanics, breath, the reduction of fear-reactivity and dynamic relaxation. Once you practice and understand it, you can apply it in any endeavor. Obviously the titles mentioned above are specific to martial arts, but many of the principles work as well in other sports.

Suntzu,
You mention the performance flow spiral, and the upper body movement exercises of fisticuffs. I think what ties this all together is his second tape in the series... but performance flow spiral tapes are really good.

All of Sonnon's material are principle based. He shows 'tricks' to explain some of the principles, but what he is trying to do is allowing you create your own expression of fighting based on the principles. I haven't seen legfencing (although IOUF touches briefly on this subject), but I would imagine it's set up similarly as his other tapes.

All of his tapes have drills/exercises, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by 'drills'?

In any event, I feel his tapes are well worth the price. But it requires a lot of time and patience in order to become well acquainted with the material, starting with the exercises (movement, breathing etc.); on to soft-sparring /soft work (in order to reduce fear-reactivity and achieve relaxation during a conflict); and finally to hard-sparring using the principles set forth in his material. Some of his tapes go very well together, for instance Shockability and fisticuffs; IOUF and Arthrokinetics (and/or GTB); Leg fencing and fisticuffs and/or IOUF etc.

Having said this, if someone is interested in stand-up fighting and clinch work, I'd suggest people start with Shockability and Fisticuffs. If for instance you're looking for stand-up grappling (and ground engagements for that matter) I'd recommend IOUF and Arthro.

Like I mentioned in the other post, this material is not for everyone. And yes, a lot of this material can be found in various books on biomechanics, kinesiology, yoga and perhaps some martial arts books. However, the ROSS material ties it all together and Coach Sonnon has made it easier and more accessible for us to enable our growth as martial artists.

BTW, I am not a member of the ROSS tribe, nor am I an expert with this material. So, all I can really comment on is what I've seen and attempted to study and integrate into my own practice. I do train in Systema occasionally, but most of my training revolves around grappling and MMA.

Edit: Perhaps someone who is a ROSS member or Coach Sonnon (if he reads this) can straighten some things out (in case I've mis-stated things).

KG