When is enough, enough?

[Shaolin-Do]

Hopefully I can get some good answers to this one....
Im just curious, what will it take to provoke most of you to fight?
When is it too much, where do you draw the line?
Lets try to keep this one on topic... if at least only for the 1st page... :)

[Becca]

I draw the line at someone seriously threatening a child. My skin is tough enought to shrug off the taunts of someone small-minded enough to pick a fight. But going after a kid, no matter what the reason or who the kid is, gets my goat. Or someone who goes after any one with a weapon. They don't have to intend to hurt someone to actually do it. You don't fool around with weapons, and I don't fool around with people who do.

[00SS]

when i feel that my family is in danger.. it doesn't take much.
myself, if i feel that they are physically gonna put a hand on me.. then it's time to not be nice.

one step further .. how do you determine wether they have had enough.. ie. they are un-consious, something is broken.. they tap or say i've had enough.. or try to run away :)

[Becca]

As soon as they brake it off. I don't turn my back on them, but I don't further it. And I usually don't attack. I'll defend or block, but I don't retaliate unless forced to. That's why I like my style so much. Sifu preaches the idea that if you train well, a simple block will discourage an agressor. If the block hurts like He!l then what's the punch gonna feel like? (Never mind that it's easy to block and people who focus on inproving their blocks don't often hitt hard.)

[Oso]

if they just look at me wrong then it's on.

[chen zhen]

"Don't tuch da hair!"

:D

for me, when the threatening individual in front of me starts getting physical, you know, pushing and getting close to you in a threatening way. If he strikes, then it's on.

[Oso]

just kidding.

personal space and what you are doing in mine.

my home, vehicle, body, my loved ones bodies, that's a little funny:)

these are my demesne and no one is allowed to do anything within those borders w/o my permission.

I will be nice to them twice, verbally forceful once, physically nice twice and then they will probably get a little hurt.

[Ford Prefect]

When I feel threatened. I've been lucky enough to feel threatened often, so I've been able to test my kung fu and know it's the real deal. I've sent a few people to the hospital. I've even fought in these bare-knuckle tournaments where the only rule is no weapons.

[Liokault]

SadLy it turns out in very easy to provoke into a fight.

I would like to think that I could only be provoked into fighting in life or death situations but it is not so.

[chen zhen]

I've been lucky enough to feel threatened often..

Oh, lucky you:D

[Oso]

I feel threatened every time my girlfriend get's that look in her eye...but that's another story:D

[MasterKiller]

I feel threatened every time my girlfriend get's that look in her eye...but that's another story
Sorry, I was aiming for her chin.

;) :D

[Oso]

I said 'look' not..............

so much for kung fu improving your accuracy

[SaMantis]

Name-calling won't provoke me to fight ... if someone is actively going out of their way to provoke me I won't laugh it off, but I won't start swinging either. But then, I haven't dealt with a situation like that since the army.

How far to go in a fight? Personally I'd prefer not to have to plant someone's face in the ground in order to prove a point. The best way to do that is to stop the fight before it starts (see above). If one does start, I hope I'm not the one to start it -- that would mean I've lost control. But if they throw the first punch my objective is to control them down to the ground in a sincere attempt to end the fight with minimal injury. If they still do not believe my sincerity then I'll make sure they stay on the ground.

That's my philosophy, anyway. Real life doesn't adhere to principles so strictly. So if I can't gain control of the other person quickly in a fight, then I need to get on out of there.

[kwaichang kaned]

First time post so be gentle.
When do you strike?
The minute it looks like getting physical.Name calling don't mean sh*t and when it does"kick off" i am to leave the other in a position where i can walk,not run away.

[Shaolin-Do]

Ah, a newb. :)
Welcome to KFO, beware of trollers.
(I would never troll...):rolleyes:
Anyhoo, Unless Im in one of those "quitting cigarettes had a stressed out week trying to get bills paid Ive got road rage and some old dude just threatened me" kinda days, It takes a whole hella lot to get me to fight. If someone wants to give lip, Ill talk sh!t right back, but until someone else makes a move, I wont.
Or until someone pulls a knife or something, and I see the opprotunity to remove the threat without any personal risk.

[MonkeySlap Too]

I find misdirection to be the premier strategy for preventing or diffusing conflict. And if those options do not work, misdirection helps to bring the sorry punk into the battlefield of my choosing.

[ewallace]

Did misdirection bring that punk to your car to steal your underwear? :)

[Becca]

He still hasn't said why all his undies were in his car.:D

[MonkeySlap Too]

My wife thought t would be nice to pack my things and load my car for a long business trip. She put all my underwear in my favorite gym bag, and put it in the back seat.

Today, I start de-pantsing people just to see who might have my underwear.

No underwear, no peace!

Seriously though, I prefer to be robbed in person, that way it can be more of an...exchange.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

im a little guy so i try to avoid fights if possible. i came to the realization a while back that no matter how hard i can hit, no matter how many people i feel i could put down in a couple strikes, it will never effect the amount of damage ill take from someone 3 times my size drilling me just as hard.

that being said i've been calm and slightly witty during the **** talking phase. if their **** talking i tend not to take them seriously ... i figure if they wanted to fight they'd be swinging not sitting there running their mouths.

if my family is threatened in any remote form then someone's gonna have a rabbid little wolverien trying to remove their eyes for them. if its just me i have to really feel threatened to take first swing. i have actually never felt that threatened. if they take first swing whatever happens to them is their fault.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too

Seriously though, I prefer to be robbed in person, that way it can be more of an...exchange.

This sentence comes up during a topic in which taking other people's underwear is the focus?

EEEEWWWW! :eek:

[red5angel]

If I think you are going ot hurt me or one of my loved ones I will do my best to destroy you. If you are hurting someone out of maliciousness, crime or other nefarious reason, I will hurt you.

[Oso]

wuz up dude?!?

[red5angel]

wazzup!?!?! how you been brother?

[Oso]

good enough, how is your new training going?

[red5angel]

good actually, I have been quite a few times to a couple of local places to fight open ring night. Mostly getting beat up but I have had a few good ones to my name as well. Getting noticeably better although the grappling I need a lot of work on still.

[Oso]

good to hear. I hooked up with a karate school that offers a separate jujitsu course (japanese not brazilian) and if all works out, I'm going to a tourny in Oct with them.

got tired of only teaching so I found the best place in town {besides myself, of course;) } to work out at.

[red5angel]

Awesome! What kind of karate is it? I sit a good school?

I may actually be cooling it on the kali and stuff that I Was working on for a short time. I got a very cool offer to learn Praying Mantis from a guy who comes with some great credentials. 5$ a week and I can train with him twice a week for 3 hours at a time. It's an art I have always been interested in so it may be too good to pass up!

[Oso]

The karate is pretty good. The sensei who teaches most of the classes is hell on wheels, we've touched hands only once but he's dang fast. I only do the jujitsu class. For once in my training career I'm working out with people my size or bigger on a regular basis. They are part of a large group. I'll PM you with their website.

who is the mantis guy?

[red5angel]

a guy by the name of Jack Spizale who has spent the last 20 years or so learning and teaching under Master Gin Foon Mark here in St. Paul.

[Oso]

ohhh, Southern PM.

one of my brothers is supposed to be training with GFM now. A guy buy the name of George Arms. He's a good fighter. Strong and fast.

I did a looong 2 day seminar with a SPM guy from CA. Can't remember his name now, something hispanic. He really drilled the crap out of us those two days. Very reminiscent of my hung gar stuff from long ago.

[Laughing Cow]

Back to topic.

It takes a lot for me to get into a fight, most of the times I can de-escalate or re-direct into more peaceful waters.

Normally I wait for the first punch and try to get the person into a lock or a throw and than over him the choice if he wants to continue or be buddies.

I found that once you show your intent and capability to fight most of them are not that eager anymore.

If I am or my loved ones are being attacked in a crime the situation differs and I will go far.

Stolen goods, good ol' Insurance foo works best.

Cheers.

[Oso]

LC, have to disagree on two points:

1 - sometimes, if intent is obvious, it is better and safer to pre-emptively strike. Metaphoricly, that is. If I can use a non-striking method to prevent said person from further violating my space then I will.

2 - these days, at least in the states, one too many claims and you no longer have Insurance Fu.

ok, 3 points


3 - I believe in the sanctity of property and whatever I consider my own personal space. I personally am not greedy and am willing to allow for the ignorance of others. But/So, when the line that I set gets crossed, it's by just a half step, cuz he/she won't get to finish taking that step.

[Laughing Cow]

Oso.

I split it up into 2 categories:

First comments were about fights like pubs or similar.

Second was for a situation where I am being attacked without provocation.

A few comments.
1.) Pub fights and similar don't cristalyse themselves out of thin air, there is something that went on before that provoked the altercation.

2.) Unproboked attacks like muggings and similar IMO in 90% of all cases are preventable by being "aware".

Problem with your point 3.

You said you set the line is that in accordance with common accepted rules and the law or not.
Alos do you let people know where that line lies.

Just some random thoughts, still sipping the first cup of coffee and the brain is still slow.

[Oso]

1.) Pub fights and similar don't cristalyse themselves out of thin air, there is something that went on before that provoked the altercation.

basically I agree. To clarify, I'm talking about my rules and not rules I set for everyone else. I don't start fights, never have. So, someone will have to provoke me by getting into my space. As I said, I allow for the ignorance of others so I will forgive a lot. But, only so far. Then, as I stated above: 2 nice verbal, 1 firm verbal, 2 nice physical, then whatever seems appropriate.



2.) Unproboked attacks like muggings and similar IMO in 90% of all cases are preventable by being "aware".


Truth. Most people walk around in a cloud.



Problem with your point 3.

You said you set the line is that in accordance with common accepted rules and the law or not.
Alos do you let people know where that line lies.


actually, I didn't say anything about common rules or law. just mine own.

yes, I let them know during the '2 nice verbal' phase.



Just some random thoughts, still sipping the first cup of coffee and the brain is still slow.

:) still sipping the first gin and tonic and the brain is still slow

[David Jamieson]

generally, when the first punch* is thrown (not mine), that's what it takes.

cheers



*punch in this context means - verbal assault and aggresiveness towards my wife or family members or friends or myself, any form of physical violence, any form of abusiveness will be dealt with to the best of my abilities.


**But, all donewith as much common sense as I have. Like if there is drinking involved, what level of abusiveness, what sort of person, who is the person, etc etc.

[No_Know]

Don't get me angry. You wouldn't like me when I get angry.

Relevant to a line from a years ago television series. In light of the movie comming out soon, if not already, relevant to the series concept. Might be at least similar to something you read in a Marvel™ comic book.

Have a Hulk of a gook thread.

Hopefully, I cannot be Made to fight. Being aware that you are goading me tends to curb me from being drawn in. -ish

I hopefully do not hold on tight enough To enough to be baited into getting hooked to fight. -ish

[Oso]

I hopefully do not hold on tight enough To enough to be baited into getting hooked to fight. -ish

that's the secret. nicely said.

[Shaolin-Do]

Hmm..
Good interesting replies.
Seems that the line for most people is personal threats, or threats to family.
Muggings arent really a problem down here... Think thats something most of us 'round hur take for granted.
"cristalyse" crystalise? :)
I think I may just say F*ckit and move to russia and change my name to Ikan Cuttchou and start teaching knife fighting classes.

[bodhitree]

When It is obvious someone is going to be violent! This weekend I was at a campground and someone was obviously going to attack this poor guy who didn't want any part of it. I got in the middle and luckily some other people came over to help calm the situation down and it didn't escalate into anything. I would have attacked that aggressor and was getting ready to, he was tring to start with an obese man who was in bad physical shape. To me words mean nothing, I dont care what leads up to a situation but it should never turn physically violent!@

ruguo ni neng kan zhege keneng shi zhongguoren

[Shaolin-Do]

Actually, as passive as I am in most situations, If I see something like that, Ill be more than happy and act on the part of the "agressee" and beat the hell out of the "agressor".
But most of the time you see someone trying to beat on someone who doesnt want any part of it, its some macho sorry mofo who needs a proper azz whoopin anyways.
:)
Holy jesus... Ive posted like 20 times today, and only 1 or 2 off topic. Whats wrong with me?
:eek:
:cool:

[red5angel]

I have been learning and will continue learning wingchun for a while. Paying mantis sort of fell into my lap so I am going to go give it a try and see how it goes.


As for how far to go: I don't mind taking someone out to stop them from hurting me or someone I care about. threats are enough, you shoudln't be saying them if you don't mean it so I have to assume you mean it. I have no problem with pre-empting either. If I think you are a threat I may pop you.
For home or family defense, if you are in my house late at night and not supposed to, or you are threatening the health of my family in anyway, I don't have a problem dumping your body in a dumpster or wooded lot and letting the police find you sometime down the road. I'm not learning the martial arts for spiritual reasons. You make a bad choice by threatening me or my loved ones, thats your problem not mine, My only problem is finding a bag big eough to put you in.

[Becca]

Originally posted by red5angel
You make a bad choice by threatening me or my loved ones, thats your problem not mine, My only problem is finding a bag big eough to put you in.

:D :D :D

[red5angel]

It's true, I made that decision along time ago and I am comfortable with it. It doesn't mean I am going to go out and pick a fight. I am not a vigilante by any means, however I believe the most important law is survival.

[Becca]

Wasn't trolling. I just loved the way you put it.:)