To the grapplers on the forum

[Ryu]

I am really focusing on clinching, takedowns, and pummeling with strikes from mount and knee on stomach.
Now obviously skill in how to keep mount, reversals, and proper weight distribution, control, and transitions are the attributes you want to develop from a ground standpoint, but do you think that from a self-defense standpoint (no guns and multiple opponents here guys...I only care about two combatants right now..and there's a lot of fights like that) that these three developed skills, clinch, takedown, mount (and punches) really are close to a "street effective system that can be learned in a short period of time"?
Looking back over all my challenge matches and little "fight club" sparring sessions with people from different backgrounds, I have almost always gone for mount. And been successful.
In my many rolling matches at different dojos I have gotten mount a lot, and was pretty good with it, however I did get reversed here and there.
Do you find that people in self-defense situations cover up and "freeze" when you are mounted and throwing punches at them? Or do they try to buck and escape with great fury?
I guess it depends on the person since I've had people do both...
But what are your thoughts?

Sorry, my questions are a bit jumbled tonight. :)
I'm doing some training with the above strategies.

Ryu

http://www.jkdu.co.za/pics/logos/jkduhpma1.gif


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[chokeyouout2]

Those are all perfect techniques for a streetfight.Except for the clinch.Getting to the clinch is kinda iffy for me.I no like being slugged in mouth.From the clinch it's randori time.But getting there with a good striker you might get jab crossed.I'll get back to you with more detail, but i'll leave you with something some judoka said somewhere.

NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU PUNCH OR KICK; THE GROUND ALWAYS HITS THE HARDEST.

When you'r telling one of your little stories, here's a idea; Have a point, it makes it so much more interesting for the reader.

[KnightSabre]

Hey Ryu,

In a one on one situation I think that the clinch,take down and mount with punches or submission is the most effective way to fight.In most of my challenge matches as well as real fights I almost allways ended mounted and punching.
The clinch is extremely effective to neutralize a good striker,most strikers do not practice the clinch range and this can save your but if you are being outclassed with strikes.

"You're Good Kid Real Good,But As Long As I'm Arround You'll Always Be Second Best See".

[Ish]

even if theres a one on one situation i would still try to keep the fight standing. who knows what your going to be rolling asround in. If your example now extends to a clean floor with no broken glass then mabe but i train the way i want to fight and thats standing up.

[Merryprankster]

Ryu,

A strategy that works for me! I like what you've got written down.

I realize that many people disagree with the clinching cause they're worried about getting hit, but the bottom line is, in a fight, it doesn't matter how good you are, or how drunk the other man is... you WILL get hit, bumped or bruised. Your goal is harm reduction.

One suggestion though: Instead of mount, go to knee on belly... same striking options, most of your submissions are still there, and the lack of control is made up for in mobility (pretty easy to follow someone who rolls away, no?) in case you have to bail for some reason.

[KnightSabre]

The advantage that a good grappler has is that he will mostly be ontop,so if the terrain is dodgy the apponent will be taking the brunt of the broken glass stones etc.

"You're Good Kid Real Good,But As Long As I'm Arround You'll Always Be Second Best See".

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Do you guy's want to go to the ground in a street fight? The pavement is alot harder than the mat and less forgiving.

"Life's a great adventure, mate."
Jacko Jackson

[krome]

RYU- if you are in a street fight I would suggest using a loose mount when you are throwing punches, so you can quickly stand up and throw a soccer kick to their head. You will find untrained ppl cover when being mounted and hit. perfect time to stand up and stomp or soccer kick. You'll and end the fight quick.

Use what works not what looks pretty.

[Ryu]

testing

http://www.jkdu.co.za/pics/logos/jkduhpma1.gif


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Ryu]

I couldn't find this on the board at all.
I thought it got deleted.

Nevermind :)


Thank you for all the replies guys.
Ryu

Just for the record, I have grappled on floors, concrete, etc. before. I personally didn't think it that much a difference.

http://www.jkdu.co.za/pics/logos/jkduhpma1.gif


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[ying jow]

My personal experience on the street has been when people are mounted (either full or cross) and they are taking punches that they roll to thier stomach. A trained person would know never to do that but in the street if you start to feel them trying to go to thier stomach take some weight off of them and let them roll and finish them from there.

[Grappling-Insanity]

I agree with going to knee on belly instead of full mount for the street. You gain alot of mobility and as someone already said you still have mostly the same striking/sub's.

I like going to clinch on the street. Most untrained people are weak and can be thrown around in clinch. Plus add some knees and elbows to that bad boy and clinch is not so bad.

[BaekHoKwan]

Agreed Grappling Insanity.

Most people either freeze, try to pull away, or start pushing from the clinch. We work extensively on striking, sweeping and trips from the clinch, and it's paid off.

Ryu, it appears that you train positions, and skills, in cycles. Does this stem from training in JKD? I'm familiar with the way that Paul Vunak advocates the developement of attributes, and I've been teaching and training using this method. We've enjoyed a great deal of sucess pressure checking skills at specific ranges in order to develope combat ability.

I also prefer to use the knee on the belly for fighting, but then again I'm a striker who is learning grappling, so it's preferable for me to stay up where I can strike and move back to my feet.

C. Martin
"Pain is Neccessary!"

[LEGEND]

Do you find that people in self-defense situations cover up and "freeze" when you are mounted and throwing punches at them?

"Some will freeze and cover up especially if they're hit directly in the face."

Or do they try to buck and escape with great fury?

"YES! Most will do this...however if u FEEL them do this...you can easily stop them by GRAPEVINING their legs then restablish mount and attack again. Another option is using KNEE ON THE BELLY."

Do you guy's want to go to the ground in a street fight? The pavement is alot harder than the mat and less forgiving.

:Do you guy's want to go to the ground in a street fight? The pavement is alot harder than the mat and less forgiving.

"Most grapplers will be ONTOP...so the one feeling the PAVEMENT is the guy on the bottom being victimized. In terms of less forgiving...I can say that grappling is less forgiving cause of the lack of damage one can attain in a ground fight! Standup fight means absorbing blows...while trying to go for a KO UNLESS u have the rare ability to intecept ala BRUCE or ALI."

A