any disadvantages to any wing chun?

[foolinthedeck]

we can argue all day on what is the best way to train, or deal with grapplers etc.

what are the downsides to wing chun training?

1. maybe none?

2. it can make you a hunchback like yip man (allegedly)

3. it can make you really argumentative, political, and intolerant of other peoples opinions.

4. it makes it easier to learn other martial arts?

5. it makes it harder to learn other martial arts? (i've tried to pick up taiji, but its just too hard it seems to me once one has done a certain amount of wc..)

any more?

[Alpha Dog]

WC isn't very sexy. Hard to pick up girls in the YGKYM stance, even if you aren't slouching.

[foolinthedeck]

nice one alpha dog!

i also wanted to add:

*accidentally hitting the girlfriend (or anyone for that matter) in a playfight because your reflexes are too good

[reneritchie]

AD is correct. Also, you have to deal with a lot of WCK people, which can be unpleasant.

(edited to add: except for KJ, lest she grow wroth and smite me)

[OdderMensch]

Or newest member pointed out a realy good one in the 'realiity" thread.

WC doesn't translate well to ring fighting. The lack of articulation due to gloves, coupled with the restriction on targets/weapons, that might not be a big loss for other MAs can be really bad for a WC player.

Also even thou it is meant to be 'fast' to learn, they meant fast like 5 years or so, 5 years seems like a long time to people, they see kickboxers fighting the first week, so why does it take us so 'long'?

And as AD said, it's not very sexy, when people find out I do MA they say "cool, show me a neat move" I say "ok, check this out" extent my arm with my palm up and preform a slow, fully articulated huen sau :D boy do thay look confused ;)

Hmm and maybe it's not a disadvantage, but you do need a patner to prctice sensitivity.

[Atleastimnotyou]

Originally posted by foolinthedeck
2. it can make you a hunchback like yip man (allegedly)



I don't know where you got that, it has made my spine straighter

[russellsherry]

hi guys i agrree with the person whom, said wing chun sometimes, does not work well in the ring my first full contack fight was against a guy, from choy lay fut in one of william cheungs
tourments, this guy victor lo had about 40 fights and i was way outclassed but i felt resticted, becuase of the , gloves, becuse i could not use double hand techniques.
but i did my best , and did not get hurt that was the main thing peace russellsherry

[WCis4me]

WC isn't very sexy. Hard to pick up girls in the YGKYM stance, even if you aren't slouching.
Ohhhhhh I dunno about that, one look at my man doing slt and I was won over;)
A disadvantage to you men out there is that it is one of the few physical things out there that a woman really can kick your butt in:D

wcis4me ^5's KJ

[TjD]

its kickassness gives people delusions of grandeur.

all other disadvantages lie in the practicioner :D

[yuanfen]

IMHO- the disadvantages of wing chun lie with the practitoner
and his/her instruction- not with the principles of the art.

[kj]

Back @ you Vicky. ;):D
- kj

[bougeac]

because wing chun is so simplistic in its approach to combat (cutting out any extraneous fancy movements, just getting the job done), i now find it very difficult to look at many other arts without my mind rebelling as soon as i see a "combination" or set fighting application that contains more than i would consider is needed to do the job....

i recall a couple of years ago going to a jkd seminar in london held by a high ranker and although some of the stuff they taught seemed ok (ish) there was also many, many times that you were shown ridiculously long combinations of moves to deal with simplest of things (like a jab or hook) and when i had to then practice these moves with a partner i just found myself wanting to resort to wck and get the job done in a more efficient manner...

just my two pennys worth...

also, whats with the humped back thing???

ive always been taught to keep my back straight (my current teacher is a chiropracter and is mortified by some of the bad posture displayed by some notable wing chun people...)

[Unstoppable]

"they see kickboxers fighting the first week, so why does it take us so 'long'?"

thats crazy dude kickboxers train min a year before fighting for real

[shaolin kungfu]

thats crazy dude kickboxers train min a year before fighting for real

Thats more than likely not true. If kickboxers train anything like boxers, they're in the ring sparring at the end of a couple sessions.

[sticky fingers]

A problem I found is too much theorizing, not enough practice-especially against other styles.
for example, you always hear about 'my straight punch will always beat your round punch'. In theory yes, but in practice other factors like concentration , skill, fatigue etc come into play.
Many WC players get taken out due to their complacency.
As yuanfen said it's the practitoner's fault, not the art.

[black and blue]

... but with training and how some interpret it.

For example, trying to work sensitivity drills and partnering up with someone who just doesn't get it - blasting in as fast and hard as possible because they want to be seen to get a hit. Resistance and hard training I like... at the appropriate time.

I also find the same problem if I meet with someone from another lineage. Some people try so hard to prove what they're doing is effective or better, that it ruins the point of getting together in the first place. It becomes their mission to try and slap you senseless.

The art itself I'm completely happy with. And, luckily, 'most' of my training partners work out in a way 'I' consider to be appropriate.

[sel]

only problem i have with wing chun is that it's taken over my life!
lol, movies, parties..forget it, i'd rather be training!

[flaco]

its lacking adaptation. adapting to the way people fight today. wc was supposedly created to defeat classical kung fu. today, most schools hardly drill against grappling and boxing, and when they do, its usually with a wc guy trying to throw boxing punches, and a wc trying takedwons, and the other guy counters.
in the old daYS, many masters of different styles got together, and tested their stuff, and grew, and learned from the experience. this is lacking in most schools today.

again, before the wc cultist slit my throat, NOT ALL SCHOOLS ARE LACKING, AND I FOR ONE HAVE SEEN GARY LAM,AND OTHER WC TEACHERS TEACH VERY GOOD STUFF, AGAINST TODAYS FIGHTERS. but on a whole, most schools are lacking this. 99n percent of the fights in the street, will never have a straight punch thrown at you, but most wc schools continually drill defense against many punches, mostly straigh, and a few hooks.

one other weakness of wc, which i guess is what bruce lee talked about, is getting molded into the style.those of us that practiced for years and hard, actually became very structured,to the point where we were not natural. i have sparred with some guys who go wild, and those guys are hardest to stop sometimes. i was so structured in wc, that i rarely threw a wild punch,and it was a weakness. when you play with guys like hawkins, if he paks, he has no problem throwing like a wild hook and slapping you in the head.sometimes, one wild shot will be the knockout, as it was last night in th pre fight of gatti/ward.
for me, that was my weakness, afraid to lose my line,and just blast someone into outerspace with a wild punch, and i have seen it happen.

we need to BRING BACK THE HAYMAKER

[yuanfen]

Flaco- forget the cult business. Agree with you in part- disagree with you in part.

The shortcomings of wing chun are in some of the teaching and learning.When people dont know enough-they end up doing robotic imitation. The key is in learning good wing chun.

There is no problem in throwing a haymaker- if one has the correct timing... and there are good defenses against haymakers
too. Depends on the "moment".

Wing chun is for complete self defense development- not just against "classical" kung fu. There are all kinds of kung fu.
Top notch choy li fut people throw pretty good haymakers.

[OdderMensch]

i have sparred with some guys who go wild, and those guys are hardest to stop sometimes. i was so structured in wc, that i rarely threw a wild punch,and it was a weakness.

From my experiance he 'wild' ones are more often the simplest to stop. Not that I can always stop 'em :) Many of the wild ones I've fought have either burned out early, or ingored faceing and angleing so I could close quickly. Also the wild ones tend to come into you, so closing the gap can be less of a problem. Now maintaing your faceing and composure, thats a little trickier.


One disadvantage to WC can be fighting non-commited attackers, such as very skilled sparers, the only thing I can think to do is rush in and overwelm them, but I've gotta get the timeing down, also stop worrying about hurting the other guy so much. :(

[1renox]

It's NOT easy and it takes more than few years.

[HuangKaiVun]

The style doesn't emphasize projectile weapons, flexible weapons, non-standup combat, nor spinning/twisting/turning.

That's not to say that Wing Chun can't do those things. That's just what I've experienced in my training thus far.

Sometimes knowing those things can mean the difference between life and death on the street, particularly nowadays.

[Ernie]

flaco
again, before the wc cultist slit my throat, NOT ALL SCHOOLS ARE LACKING, AND I FOR ONE HAVE SEEN GARY LAM,AND OTHER WC TEACHERS TEACH VERY GOOD STUFF, AGAINST TODAYS FIGHTERS. but
thanks for the prop's but even i find that i have to step out often and get dropped by other stylest , then go back to gary for so good old coaching to feed off his actual fight experience and then go back and test the theory .
meaning if you don't lose you wont learn but most people's ego's are to fragile for that.
so many teachers might have the answers but perhaps there students haven't asked the right questions , to customize the wing chun to there body type and abilities .
all the answers are out there just simply get into uncomfortable water and find them for yourself .
wing chun is a great way to expose yourself to very good and effecient fighting concepts and tools . but no matter how well structured your hammer is it's useless if you don't hit as many different nails from as many different angles as possible.
so is it the ''art of wing chun '' that is lacking or the training methods that are out dated .

[EnterTheWhip]

Originally posted by OdderMensch
One disadvantage to WC can be fighting non-commited attackers, such as very skilled sparers Great! 'Cause that is not what Wing Chun is for....

[EnterTheWhip]

Originally posted by HuangKaiVun
The style doesn't emphasize projectile weapons, flexible weapons, non-standup combat, nor spinning/twisting/turning.

Sometimes knowing those things can mean the difference between life and death on the street, particularly nowadays. You're not too far from yuanfen. I am certain he would be very helpful to you.

[HuangKaiVun]

Perhaps.

Then again, I'm not going to say that Wing Chun DOESN'T do those things that I mentioned. I know better than to do that.

My comments were more an indictment of my personal training deficiencies than a criticism of the system.

[Ng Mui]

No one is perfect.
No martial art is perfect.
Having said that Wing Chun is close, still.............
Many Wing Chun styles have a weakness to overhead attacks, like the downward hammer fist strike. Most cannot grapple or keep someone from taking them down.

[yuanfen]

Ng Mui- good comments- some practitioners may not and dont know how to handle overhead attacks or takedown attacks- but the principles of the art when properly understood and better mastered
provides as good an answer to those situations as I have seen.

[EnterTheWhip]

Originally posted by HuangKaiVun
Perhaps.Then again, I'm not going to say that Wing Chun DOESN'T do those things that I mentioned. I know better than to do that.
My comments were more an indictment of my personal training deficiencies than a criticism of the system. So then... you're not too proud to visit yuanfen, and minimize those deficiencies...

[yuanfen]

Huang visited a class of mine once. Nice guy. I did not personally touch hands with him..though a couple of students played a bit.
Huang knows some wing chun but he is not really a wing chun person-
like some he is trying to make his own synthesis. Good luck to Huang in finding his niche.