Knees

[Judge Pen]

My fears happened last night. I have a knee injury. I came down awkardly on a kick and my leg jammed a bit and something just felt "funny." I finished class without any real problems but when I got home my knee was killing me. This morning, I can barley bend it. I guess I'll go get an MRI and see if surgery will be required.

Has anything ever happened to you guys? If so, how long before you were back to training? Any residual effects?

[Sho]

My knee is busted too. I accidentally slammed it with a staff yesterday. :mad:

[shaolin kungfu]

I tore some ligaments in my knee a while back. Doctor said 4-6 months for healing, but it only took about two until I could do almost everything. For a while afterward the knee hurt because of bruises on the bone, and the leg was weaker after not moving it much, but other than that everything turned out fine.

Edit: What you described feeling is kind of like what happend to me. It felt mostly weird, but there was definitely pain. A few hours later it had swolen and was hard to move. The more time that passed, the worse it got.

[Unstoppable]

:(

[MasterKiller]

That's my worst fear...I'm not very flexible anyway, and I am afraid a knee injury could happen very easily.

Sorry to hear that, Judge. Hope it's not serious.

[rogue]

Mine are iffy from age and bad genetics.

[Oso]

rogue, are you saying you were genetically engineered??? :D


has anyone ever trained hard and not mucked up something?

my hips are probably only a few years away from being replaced.

I'm going to try and hold out for bionics.

[shaolinboxer]

I have a tear in the meniscus of my right knee from excess training. At one point the pain was complete debilitating. I saw two doctors. One immediately recommended surgery. The other, an althetic injury specialist, told me to try to control it first since once you get cut, the pain goes away but you lose something ("we treat people, not injuries").

So anyway, I can no longer use many of the kicks I spent about a decade learning. I'd say it took away 30% of my martial vocabulary...mostly wushu kicks and such (hook kicks, roundhouse kicks blah blah).

Stretching, meditation, and re-learning how to use my body more effectively and gently has reduced the pain to a slight reminder maybe once every few months. But understand, I had to completely change my training, which is an interesting process.

[Oso]

SB, yep. I'm kinda a big guy so my kicks have never been anything pretty to look at but I could surprise a few people who didn't expect me to have any high kicks at all...but in the last 3 years I've had to adjust as well. I just can't get the feet up there as fast anymore and so don't risk it.:( and, I only had a few good tricks as it was:( :(

[ewallace]

I have heard that the less it hurts, the more serious it is. Hopefully that is true in your case. Good luck.

[Judge Pen]

We'll see. It's been pretty tight today, but it feels some better. I'll give it until Monday and if I don't see any improvement then I schedule a visit with a doctor.

[JAZA]

I have an MCL injury, one year with crutches( two, then one) because I could'nt take the full rehabilitation program in the right time.
You need RICE( Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation), one month with inmovilization, a plaster or a brace. Then you got to develop the surrounding muscles like vastus medialis and quads. The strong you get it, the fast the rehabilitation.
Now I have some meniscus hassles, and have to use a brace when training.
Hope it isn't too serious to you.

[dragon797]

I'd see an sports orthopedic doctor first. Most orthos have some type of acute injury walk-in clinic so you don't have to make an appointment weeks down the road. A specialist can do several manual tests in their office to determine what the injury may be (without ordering a $1000 MRI) that general physicians are not really trained to spot. With the swelling, something tore, but it could just be a sprain that wouldn't require surgery. Even if it feels better in a few days, I'd still want to eliminate a torn menisucs (cartlidge) or an ACL injury that could come back to haunt you down the road.

Say, are you with Master Mullins?

[Former castleva]

Problems of bipedalism,I tell you.
I´m all too weak for knuckle walking though.

[Stacey]

had a bad knee, Sifu set it using some kind of kung fu sportsmedecine..it was fuct up and the doctors were gonna do surgery. Now...its great.

[Sho]

Originally posted by ewallace
I have heard that the less it hurts, the more serious it is.If you have a broken leg or any other bone, it doesn't hurt so much at the beginning, because the body tries to kill some of the pain by itself by becoming numb. Later on it'll hurt like hell though. But of course, if you step on the foot when it's broken it'll cause a serious stinging pain.

[African Tiger]

Judge, don't let those expensive "Quacks" cut your knee open! You will regret it for the rest of your life, bro.

I'd say, have your MRI/X-Ray so you know exactly what's there. But find yourself a wholistic practicioner of any variety (Acupressure, acupuncture, rolfing, etc) so that they will help the body heal itself.

I suffer from extremely painful tendonitis in both knees, and thanks to my demanding training schedule (kung fu/qi gung, mountain biking, running, and 100 push ups each day), I think I have torn the meniscus (sp) in my left knee.

When the last Ortho doc told me that the best they could do for me was to cut the tendon and restretch it, I knew I was going to lose full extension of both knees....I left skid marks out of his office! :o

Unfortunately as we get older, the best you can really do is to manage the pain. I use heated Dit Da Jow every morning on both knees - before I train, and after I train. I can tell you honestly, I have seen better results from that, than any medication I have taken.

Mainly just stay active. You'll have to cut out the kung fu for a while, but you could always walk or swim. Even a little bicycling can help.

Good luck, bro. :D

[Ben Gash]

Take 2-3 weeks off training. DON'T try to "test" the leg during this time. Take Glucosamine, Chondroitin and Omega 3, along with Ibuprofen 400mg three times a day (with food) for the first week. Then do plenty of static stance work and some light stretching to build up the muscle around the knee. Then try to do some light, controlled kicking and stepping. If it's still a problem seek help.

[Ben Gash]

Also, see if you can walk in a tight circle. If you can't, you need to see an orthopaedic surgeon.

[R]

Hey if you can't walk the walk then perhaps you can at least talk the talk. These guys have some good general info that might come in useful.

http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/


Cheers, R :D

[Former castleva]

"Judge, don't let those expensive "Quacks" cut your knee open! You will regret it for the rest of your life, bro.

I'd say, have your MRI/X-Ray so you know exactly what's there. But find yourself a wholistic practicioner of any variety (Acupressure, acupuncture, rolfing, etc) so that they will help the body heal itself. "

Sorry but in order to save someone from being mislead,I´d like to say that they are "wholistic" (holistic) practitioners that are generally recognized as quacks.

[African Tiger]

Sorry but in order to save someone from being mislead,I´d like to say that they are "wholistic" (holistic) practitioners that are generally recognized as quacks

You say Tomato, I say To-mah-toe. How many D students are practicing medicine nowdays? How many people slept with their teachers in order to pass and become surgeons? How many "doctors" learned how to practice medicine from correspondence courses, or bought degrees from online degree brokers, or read a few books a la "Good Will Hunting", and decided that they knew enough to start practicing medicine.

Don't assume that a piece of paper makes any Western Medicine-style doctor better than a holistic practicioner. (Thank you for correcting my spelling). Most of these doctors see pain as something to throw an expensive bottle of pills at, and once that liver-destroying **** is proven ineffective, they start with the cutting.

How do I know? Experience, my friend. Everytime the tendonitis flared up and I went to see one of those overpaid *******s, they did just what I described. Until one day I got so sick from taking that new Celebrex bull**** (the commercial with the older woman doing Tai Chi), I finally woke up and decided to see someone who could REALLY help.

Don't be sorry - your opinion is a valid one, but from my experience it's complete bull. My mother and my sister are both healthcare practicioners, and they now use herbs and holistic treatments in their regimines. But ask yourself why everyone thinks holistic healers are quacks. Is it because the AMA says they are, and their word is law? Is it because the FDA takes years to approve herbal remedies, but pushes the latest pharmaceuticals upon us without adequate studies? Oh wait, you're not from the U.S.....

...nevermind :D

[Former castleva]

Oh.Yeah,yeah? Is that so? Now I really have to let you know how...

"...nevermind "

OK. :D


On a more serious note,I understand your opinion but I think you´re being excessively hostile towards medical science.
But since you´re laying your experiences on the line,there´s nothing I can say about that.

[monkey mind]

I tore the lateral meniscus in my right knee a few years ago playing ultimate. After 6 months or so the pain was just getting worse & I went in for surgery. Looking back on it, I wish I had tried an alternative treatment first, but I can't say I'm sorry I had surgery. It took me over a year before I could do most everything I wanted (not the 2 months my surgeon predicted). Also, I had to scale way back on my bagua & taiji practice because it aggravated the knee pain (the weird & problematic thing was that I never had pain during training, but as soon as I would stop the knee would hurt like hell). Now my principal art is Arnis, but I have been doing extensive internal training as well. My teacher gave me an herbal formula that has dramatically reduced the lingering pain I still experience on occasion.

The only advice I can give is to explore all your options & go with what feels right to you. There are fundamentalists of all stripes when it comes to health care. But it's your body. And don't forget that with holistic & allopathic medicine, it's not necessarily an either/or thing. Try to find sources that are familiar with and respectful of both. Good luck.

[Empty Fist]

I had Osgood Slater’s Disease (technically a syndrome not a disease) when I was younger. My knees have never been that strong. I had various problems such as my knees giving out on me. Several weeks ago I slipped and wound up putting all my weight on my left knee. Hurt like a mother f**ker. I thought I tore the meniscus or something. Knock on wood my knee has gotten better. Could have been a lot worse. I attribute my fast recovery to my Tai Chi Chuan training, which has help build the muscles up around my knee. If I would have had the same injury several years ago the outcome would have been a lot worse. Best thing you can do is rest you knee. See a doctor if things don’t get better. I also had someone in my Tai Chi Chuan class tear an MCL. She wound up wearing a brace after the surgery but was able to do the form (high stance). Hope things work out for you.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by dragon797


Say, are you with Master Mullins?

Thanks for all the advice. The knee feels amazing today. Almost as if nothing happened so I'm thinking it's a sprain. I did some Tai Chi and Pa Kua and that felt like it helped it. Scary thogh because I am afraid that one day a knee will go and end my training (at least in the external).

dragon797: Yes, I am with Master Mullins. I don't train regularly with him, but his oldest son is my sifu. Where do you train? What style?

[norther practitioner]

I've blown both knees... go see a doctor....

I have partially torn ligaments (mcl's) somehow screwed my pcl and bruised the patella when I dislocated it.... I have pain in my knees, and probably always will, the best thing you can do is the rehab but you really need to keep at it.:D Oh, and when you think that you should be doing more (which a lot of people do) during your rehab.. ask the pt, thats what they are there for.

[dragon797]

Originally posted by Judge Pen


Thanks for all the advice. The knee feels amazing today. Almost as if nothing happened so I'm thinking it's a sprain. I did some Tai Chi and Pa Kua and that felt like it helped it. Scary thogh because I am afraid that one day a knee will go and end my training (at least in the external).

dragon797: Yes, I am with Master Mullins. I don't train regularly with him, but his oldest son is my sifu. Where do you train? What style?

Great news about your knee.

I trained with Garry MANY years ago when he lived in Kentucky and both of us still had a full head of hair. He was an excellent martial artist and apparently still is. As far as now...that's a can or worms best not opened on an internet forum. Regards.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by dragon797


Great news about your knee.

I trained with Garry MANY years ago when he lived in Kentucky and both of us still had a full head of hair. He was an excellent martial artist and apparently still is. As far as now...that's a can or worms best not opened on an internet forum. Regards.

I understand. I'd send you a private message, but I apparently can't. Anyway, feel free to PM me if you to discuss this more. Regards to you as well.