Traditional Southern Lion Dance

[LionDancer]

How many lion dance troupes continue with traditional southern lion dancing instead of the newer malaysian style?

www.globalliondancer.com

[David Jamieson]

Hey-

for competition, the malaysian style is pretty popular. mostly because of the high jongs and the wire walking etc. It's a great show!

However, to the best of my knowledge, in all the Kungfu schools I've seen or visited, they stick pretty much to the traditional routines using the Crane Mountain and Buddha Mountain type southern lions.

A few clubs do both, the competition style as seen in the Genti cup videos and events and the traditional style at new years and auspicious days.

It's nice to see a competent team perform in the streets. A good lion dance shows the goodness of the Kungfu training that drives it :D

cheers

[mantis108]

Do you mean protocol and ettiquette (entering temple, greeting another lion, etc...) ? The design of the lion (Futshan vs Hokshan, color code etc...) ? Or Routines (special "Chiang")?

It would help if the question is more specific. Personally, I think a "traditional" lion dance is loaded with protocols, ettiquette and symbolism. Not at all a fancy acrobatic sports fest. The neo lion dance to me is like Wushu to Kung Fu. Looks good but is devoided of true spirit.

Mantis108

[LionDancer]

I agree that optically, the new style is flashy but my opinion of traditional lion dancing primarily focus on the liondancer and the martial art skills displayed through the many stances and 'life-like' (sang) movements of the lion, i.e., from the awakening to the stalking to the eating and sleeping of the lion. The movements of the lion should not be one where the lion appears to be frolicing but rather of a lion with strong, decisive and life-like movements.

This would also include some of the traditional puzzles and jongs as opposed to popular 'poles' today. The lion itself of the past was also heavier and larger (typically size A1 or A2) compared with ones common today. The traditional puzzles and jongs (special chiangs) required the liondancer to better display their martial art skills as opposed to today's popular poles where one balances themselves and jumps from one to another. This is not to say that the newer styled liondancers lack in skill but rather the setting does not permit an adequate display of them.

I think Mantis108 says it best, the lion should not be devoid of true spirit.... I guess my true question is this:

the traditional style appears to be forgotten by many and is not as popular as before. How can we revive this and promote it?

[David Jamieson]

I am not certain that a revival is what is required.

There is lots of traditional lion dance going on. I still think there are more traditional lion dance teams than there are the former.

It has a lot to do with what people want to see too. There are some kungfu schools who did not lion dance befire and now they do. When they first start out as a team, they are usually not so good and it takes time for everyone to learn the lion dance.

This results on some people seein glion dance in a traditional light as well, frankly boring. But if a team works hard and takes some chances and has dedicated members, they can develop some routines that require a lot of skill.

But if that team becomes complacent and happy with just walking around in a puppet shaking the head and getting lai si and chiangs from everywhere... well...

THere are definitely some very good traditional teams doing lion dance out there though.

cheers

[LionDancer]

Agree with what you are saying but it still seems to me that alot of 'dancers' now a days still focus on the newer styles.....

[Gold Horse Dragon]

Agreed...there is even one team in my city that does not even get a Chang...the climax and whole point of the lion dance...where good luck is brought to all.

GHD

[brothernumber9]

so what exactly are the newer styles and what are the older styles?

I speculate you imply that "new" means the set jong routines and perhaps even some of the set floor routines where there may be an abundance of crowd pleasing tricks but weak expression from the actual movements of the lion? still what would older styles be? what is characteristic of an "old" style vs a "new" style outside of expression?

what is a recognizable standard that all lion dance should abide by, or should there be some standards in sub divisions of lion dance, for example northern, fut san, and hok san. if so what would they be? or should it go even higher, in that particular shools or pugilisms should have a standard only within thier own style?

I don't mean to ask so many questions at one time. but there are visibly different interperatations as to what lion dance is supposed to look like. I personally believe the core of any lion dance is in expression, the ability to make an audience forget that they are looking at two people in an outfit and make them see only one creature that can portray in an obvious fashion expression and storytelling (hopefully with good kungfu footwork).

[mantis108]

It is wonderful to meet someone who has the understanding of the old school Lion Dancing.

The fundamentals of the southern lion dance is butchered because of sportification of lion dance.

First off, the new style lion design is changed due to the fact that acrobatics similar to the northern lion are added. The body is much much short in the new type of southern lions. I usually call this the Southern head northern tail. In other word it is a crossed breed. :( Once upon a time, when southern lion dance is a showcase of footwork deeply rooted (pun intended) in the stancework is now replaced by often strolling type of footwork. I am not sure about how the strolling footwork works with the drum. In traditional LD, the lion's footwork goes hand in hand with the drum scores. There are the 3 stars, 5 stars, 7 stars, etc...Therefore there are 3 stars footwork, and so on so forth, for the lion. The 7 emotions of the lion are all expressed through the help of the footwork. Bold, strong and expressive type of the footwork, as oppose to strolling, is to show the courage the lion. What does the new style footwork shows? Frolics of a puppy or a kitten perhaps?

As for the Chiangs, the short body almost wipes out the reminance of the southern roots. The saying "southern boat and northern horse" shows the importance of boat life in the south. The long body (and the stieady footwork) of the southern lion reflect this important element of southern society namely the boat people who often test the lion by placing Chiangs on the water and the lion has to reach for it from the bow of the boat which could be quite a distance. Northern lion doesn't need that because of dry land nor does it has Chiang as a test of courage. Also a lot of the weapon or symbolic Chiangs are not performed due to sporty show of acrobatics is more crowd pleasing or to limit the public displace of "secret society knowledge" (ie Tai Kung Diew Yu Chiang - Grand Duke fishing), which were common in the south.

Traditional southern lion dance is about culture. Cultivation needs time and tender loving care. It is to build "spirit" which "houses the people". The purpose of sport today is to dull people's senses because the chief aim is to ENTERTAIN and ENTERTAIN ONLY. The level of the traditional and new lion dances are heavan and earth apart. But then to the untrained eyes, there is no difference. Oh well... it is the hands of time, what can we say?

Mantis108

[WinterPalm]

My kwoon has a traditional lion dance team that I've been fortunate enough to participate in. We do some acrobatic, or flashy stuff, like jumping onto the tails horse stance or bow stance, lots of jumps but it is still traditional with a chiang and meant to bring prosperity and good will to the establishment we are performing for.
It is very fun and brings a certain exhileration with performing a routine that is difficult when brought off well. :)

[LionDancer]

Same holds true here, to meet someone who appreciates and understands the meaning behind the old school ways. I would add that one major difference is in the bold decisive moves of the lion which also represents the pride of the lion as well as its courage. One can say or translate this to also represent the pride of the performers / troupe / school in that the culture remains intact and continues to thrive. The lion peers regally at onlookers and does not look upwards typically with its mouth wide. With high chaings, the lion attempt to attack it from above or at least from the side instead of from below.....

Mantis108 pointed out 1 thing I did not focus on and that is the body/tail of the lion. Traditional ones have the much longer ones which also has meaning to it...... but thats for another time and fellow traditionalist.......

Mantis108, these two are for you....

[LionDancer]

part II

[David Jamieson]

nice pics LD!

How does that pole work? It's hard to see. Is it attached to his belt and he's hoisted like a crain? Or is there a seat or cushion on the end of the pole?

cheers

[Gold Horse Dragon]

Originally posted by LionDancer
Same holds true here, to meet someone who appreciates and understands the meaning behind the old school ways. I would add that one major difference is in the bold decisive moves of the lion which also represents the pride of the lion as well as its courage. One can say or translate this to also represent the pride of the performers / troupe / school in that the culture remains intact and continues to thrive. The lion peers regally at onlookers and does not look upwards typically with its mouth wide. With high chaings, the lion attempt to attack it from above or at least from the side instead of from below.....

Mantis108 pointed out 1 thing I did not focus on and that is the body/tail of the lion. Traditional ones have the much longer ones which also has meaning to it...... but thats for another time and fellow traditionalist.......

Mantis108, these two are for you....

It also depends on whether performing Fut Shan or Hoc San lion. The Hoc San will or should be more bird like in movement and not near as bold as the Fut Shan.
Although the ideal way to approach the chang is dead on or from the top as you say...the reality of most situations (at least in our neck of the woods with winter and all) in traditional lion dance for businesses at new years or august moon festival is that for heaven greens, the lion will most likely have to approach and grab the greens from underneath....there is really nothing wrong with this.
For a pics and videos, you can visit our site at Shaolin West Kung Fu Kwoon (http://www.mts.net/~sillum/Index.htm)

[LionDancer]

The lion dancer has a kung-fu sash and is raised by the people you see around him. The pole is actually then tucked in between the sash and the person at an angle. We then straighten the pole and the lion dancer rises in the air while curling the leg around the pole. That is how we did those moves. There are no seats at the end of the pole, it is just as you see it, an ordinary wooden pole.... When done, the pole tilts and the lion dancer jumps off. We did that to go after high chaings instead of having the lion dancer stand on a table top platform held by people underneath. It does become difficult and strenuous on the performer after a while because you need to lock your leg around the pole, balance yourself as the pole is not always steady, and most important, continue to play the lion head animately.....

One year, we had two liondancers go after a two high chaings laid out in a plum blossom pattern.

www.globalliondancer.com

[LionDancer]

Brothernumber9:

have your questions been answered?

__________________________________
www.globalliondancer.com

[LionDancer]

What has been the most difficult "jun" or "jong" that groups have come across?

(btw GHD, very nice site!)
__________________________________________________
www.globalliondancer.com

[brothernumber9]

no my questions haven't really been answered, but just the same my questions warrant broad opinion so I couldn't (can't) really expect a propinct answer to such broad questioning. I'll try to go point at a time and be more precise. For example, some schools teach and learn that the lion (futsan) should follow the beat of the drum to a T on the timing (In yee mm sing, the 2 5 beat is what I'm referring to ) Other schools teach and learn that the lion weaves in and out of the timing, sometimes movements match the beat sometimes they don't, still others (a few) teach and learn without attention to matching the beat timing at all. who is right, who is wrong? who's to say what is right and what is wrong? or better yet which is traditional and which is not? and because why or why not?

[LionDancer]

I will try to answer you questions as best as I can... traditionally, the lion follows the drum as the drummer will "signal" the lion to perform certain aspects, i.e., the sniffing of food, the raising of the lion, the 3 star salute, the awakening, etc.. the goal is to have the lion's movement in sequence with the drum beat however that requires constant practice and coordination between the two. The different sequences of the drum technique has significance and meaning. This is akin to when schools perform their martial arts. When the practioner performs, there is an accompanying drum sequence to which the performer tries to match in rythym of the moves/form.

Who is to say which is correct or which is wrong in today's times but consider this, does it make sense that when a lion is sleeping or awakening or eating that the drum sequence is a 3, 5 or 7 star pattern? I think not. My personal opinion is that it only makes logical sense that the traditional form is when the lion follows the drum patterns.

Anyone else have any insight?
_________________________
www.globalliondancer.com

[LionDancer]

Mantis108,

As a traditional LD discussion point, would you share with the group descriptions of some of the protocols and ettiquette? Very much appreciate it.....

[Gold Horse Dragon]

Originally posted by LionDancer
I will try to answer you questions as best as I can... traditionally, the lion follows the drum as the drummer will "signal" the lion to perform certain aspects, i.e., the sniffing of food, the raising of the lion, the 3 star salute, the awakening, etc.. the goal is to have the lion's movement in sequence with the drum beat however that requires constant practice and coordination between the two. The different sequences of the drum technique has significance and meaning. This is akin to when schools perform their martial arts. When the practioner performs, there is an accompanying drum sequence to which the performer tries to match in rythym of the moves/form.

Who is to say which is correct or which is wrong in today's times but consider this, does it make sense that when a lion is sleeping or awakening or eating that the drum sequence is a 3, 5 or 7 star pattern? I think not. My personal opinion is that it only makes logical sense that the traditional form is when the lion follows the drum patterns.

Anyone else have any insight?

LD
Thanks, glad you liked our site. You have a nice site as well, except I had some difficulty with the cookies, as I have my browser set to not accept most.

I agree with what you said. The lion dancers must match the section of the dance to the drum beat ie. bow, chang, high or triumphant, walk, sleepy etc. The only part that is difficult is the walk routine, where the lion just tries to match the beat as best he can. It is difficult, as the lion encounters many different things during walking in traditional Lion dance.

There is a lot of ettiquette and protocol to follow in traditional LD and the Lion must follow them. As well, the musicians in the group, must follow certain protocols. These protocols can vary as to where you perform as well, for example...restaurant vs Buddhist Temple.

GHD

[Yum Cha]

Well, for the most part, at least in downtown Sydney Chinatown, traditional is the go. I always thought you can do traditional on Jongs, it isn't necessarily "modern"? Traditional lifts and drops, benches, iron bowl, etc. Naturally, shop to shop or Restaurant dancing is slightly different than a "Performance".

The Pole, Kung Lek, you crack me up <grin>, a padded seat indeed....

Here's how we do it. (http://www.aaron.net.au/pak_mei - see the pictures section)

The support crew holds the pole, and the monkey climbs up - Stepping on the back of a thigh, a hip, a shoulder and onto the pole. Belt around the end. There's a small cross piece to stand on. Sometimes he carries up the head, sometimes its passed up to him. The tail is then supported by a staff and raised up into the air as well. The head can then be carried down, or dropped over the waiting dancer(s) below.

I know "monkeys" that can put the top of the pole in their belly, extend their arms and legs outward, still wearing the head, and then balance there when the supporters rotate the pole 360 degrees. I always thought of that as a traditional stunt. I've seen video from Guangzhou where the lion head climbs a pole perhaps 8 to 10 metres tall that is held by one single guy with a harness, like a flag pole holder, not touching the ground...



If you have lots of guys, you just stick the pole under the dancers belt as he stands on the ground, then 1,2,3 LIFT! The head has to jump onto the footrest as it goes up.

Mantis108, once again you provide a wealth of good info. Thanks matey.

[fiercest tiger]

Ive added a new version to my schools lion dance using a cherry picker, you jump into the cage section and someone down below presses the button and hoists you up there, whilst they are down there having a f@g and a coke.

why climb when its all done by electronics?:) Its called the millinium dance the jong is something else!!!:eek:


Yum Cha i could see you getting lifted up lol, snap......peoples backs will be damaged.....well its a good thing seng knows dit dar!;)

FT

[Yum Cha]

LOL, thats right FT, I rather suspect you've not been up the pole in awhile either <grin>.

I dunno, everytime I try and talk the guys into letting me go up the pole, they start whining like little girls...

SIFU Seng's Dit Dar Jau isn't quite that strong, ...

I do have a number of tee shirts with indellible footprints all over the shoulders...I think the blood sets the stains... I still haven't forgiven Nate for that time he wore turf shoes...

All Ming's work is traditional, isn't it?

[fiercest tiger]

HAHAHAHAHA true i havent done the pole for years......last time i did the pole was in the middle of dixon street near jin wu kwoon. The look on the boys faces ......hahahaha

Ming Sifu has both the modern Jong and the old style when we do shops. Although i still keep my school old style with the old wakening and so forth.

i think we need a long tree lopping device to cut down the lettace from the roofs so we dont have to have the long pole!!:p Just let it drop onto the groud and then kick the SH!T out of it, GWAI LO style. hahahahah pull out the tomatoes and make a toss salad for lunch.

Apples included in your school?:)

Take care
FT

p.s ITS GETTING CLOSE TO AUGUST MOON TOO!!!

[brothernumber9]

perhaps someone or some people could post links to vid clips of what they consider to be proper or traditional lion dance (I've already seen some of the genting clips). I know there aren't much so if no one has any its understandable.

[Yum Cha]

Yea, FT, either one of us up the pole would look a bit like a Chupa Chop.

Or perhaps a candy apple....<grin>

.....padded seat indeed....<still chuckling>.

Anybody ever gotten into "strife" with other Kung Fu clubs over Lion Dancing confrontations??

There must be some good stories out there.....<Winking at FT>

[Gold Horse Dragon]

Originally posted by brothernumber9
perhaps someone or some people could post links to vid clips of what they consider to be proper or traditional lion dance (I've already seen some of the genting clips). I know there aren't much so if no one has any its understandable.

Shaolin West Kung Fu Kwoon (http://www.mts.net/~sillum/Index.htm)

GHD

[LionDancer]

hey nice site. see your group still has the traditional long lion tail....


____________________________
www.globalliondancer.com

[mantis108]

Hi LionDancer, Yum Cha and All,

I really appreciate the info. shared. The pictures by LionDancer is Excellent. Thank you, my friend. I would love to share more stuff but I am short on time now. I will have to do that some other time hope you don't mind. Anyway, great stuff that you have there. :)

Yum Cha,

Thank you, I really appreciate the kind words and support. Chat to you later.

Warm regards

Mantis108

[LionDancer]

you're very welcome.

[LionDancer]

What are some of the most difficult lion dance routines your group has performed?


________________________
www.globalliondancer.com

[LionDancer]

Any groups starting to train for New Year's yet? Any special routines?

[LionDancer]

Anyone see or participate in the Lion Dance Competition that took place on July 5th if SF?

[LionDancer]

Does anyone have any particular preferences as to the high jumping jongs versus the traditional ones and why?

___________________________
www.globalliondancer.com

[Gold Horse Dragon]

Originally posted by LionDancer
Does anyone have any particular preferences as to the high jumping jongs versus the traditional ones and why?

___________________________


I prefer the trad. ones...they are much more unstable and require a high level of skill with regard to the unstableness.

GHD

[TenTigers]

does anyone know how Raymond Wong's guys did that handspring/jump off the tabletop/head switch thingy at the tournament? It all happened so fast, I didn't catch it. I know the head was crouching, and lowering the head down, and then the tail did a handspring over the head, but I still don't see how the head ended up on the ground. I suppose we could look foward to next year-they'll probably do it on plum flower posts! They are probably the best Lion Dance team I've seen on the East coast.

[brothernumber9]

I saw the lion dance, Kan Yee from Sifu Wong's school, Li Ling's older brother was telling me about it before the demo. My team did the same kind of trick but off of saw horses several years ago. The tail does a head flip off of the head's back while holding onto the head's sash from the back, as the tail flips over onto the ground the head flips forward and does a somewhat shoulder roll kip up off of the tail's back. From the height they were at the head may very well have just flipped off. the head never changed hands. It was an excellent trick and very easy to get hurt by if either one slips up. That team has really improved over the last several years. Props to them

[hasayfu]

I was at the event.
http://www.lion-dancing.com/nfldc/home.html

It was a great competition. It was a traditional lion dance competition so no pure jong routines. It made for some really creative and fun to watch performances.

Some of the highlights in no particular order.

Yau Gung Moon and Gee Yung both did great facial animation. YGM had a part where the lion sniffed the chang in a tree. I swear, everyone in the gym could feel how good it smelt.

Fook Sing had a moving snake routine where the lion played with a moving snake.

YGM had two teams. Team A did a real old school style routine with tipping benches, barrels and stuff. Totally my style. Team B did a Hok San modern routine full of sweet acrobatics.

Camarillo had the band doing these cool synchronized foot patterns while playing.

West Coast did a forward roll (tail over head) on the ground.

Lot's more stuff I can't detail here. There is suppose to be a DVD coming out. I'd recommend getting it. Every act had something to offer and fun to watch. 8 teams performed. For a first event, it went very smooth. They even had some good kung fu demos in between teams.

Hopefully, more teams will participate next year.

[LionDancer]

If there were an East Coast Competition Event located in New York or Boston, would people be interested and participate?
________________________________________________
www.globalliondancer.com

[GARRA DE TIGRE]

hello


i want to know if anyone knows how built a lion head or have any info about the case .

i live in a country where is very hard and expensive buy one .

any help will be great .

[Eddie]

You can buy some real cheap lions (not good quality tho) from Fut San (Government) Lion Dance Supply shop. They go for anything between 600yeun and 1000 yuen (about $130usd), and they can handle the shipping and everything. The once from Malaysia are cool, but little to expensive.


Fut San Lion Dance Co
Mrs Pang
(0986) 0757 225 4052 or 0757 222 9443

Would be better to have a chinese translator standby, as she doesnt speak english well.

[GARRA DE TIGRE]

eddie


do you think asking de Chinese Embassy Ofiice , they could help you to contact with this futsan lion dance co and get lion dance stuff ?

[Fen]

This is one of the best threads on KFM right now, and I'm glad to see it to!!

Just so you all now there is a Lion Dance Forum (http://www.team-fu.com/forums/index.php?act=SF&f=11) out there too!!:D

~Jason

[yu shan]

I appreciate this Lion Dance thread! Yes, I love Lion Dancing. I have learned so much by these quality people sharing what they know. Lion Dancing is one of the most grueling things I`ve done in my MA career. What I was taught was thru Wah Lum KF. A definite HK influence. We always had strong stances/footwork and nice tricks. We seemed to have really flamboyant head work with a strong back man.

The Lion Dance I learned thru Wah Lum KF put emphasis on Lion, and drum team had to match the movements of lion kind of ablib. Sure, the dance was pre-arranged form, just like our hand forms, but the drummer had to drum "to the lion". Isn`t this a$$ backwards? At any rate, lion dancing will make a man out of you! Front, back, drummer...it`s all good!

M108, you amaze me!

Peace

[Gold Horse Dragon]

I do not think it is backwards...just a different way of doing it. I use the drum to signal the lion what to do, but we have a semi-prearranged routine. that said, there might be a couple of spots in the routine where the drum would pick up the cue from the lion instead of vice versa...versatility and adaptablity are the key words in traditional lion dance..

GHD

[yu shan]

I need advice on how I can get my Chinese community to open up to our Lion Dance Team. I mean we get small gigs, parties, cultural celebrations etc. I just can`t seem to get the local restaruant`s to hire us for New Years! First year, I went to every Chinese restaruant with a nice letter and card. No one hired us. Next year, I did a mailing, both in english and chinese...nothing! I am white, but Chinese/Taiwanese taught. I have a magnificent gold lion and red lion. I am the only team in town, what should I do?

When you see tears of joy from the older Chinese-Americans, because they have not seen lion in such a long time...then why can`t I get these restaruants to give us go?

Thank you in advance :)

[Gold Horse Dragon]

Hi Yu shan,

If you know someone in the chinese community that would act as a go between, you may have some success.
If you have done performances for other Chinese functions, I would assume your not not being hired due to your race, but rather due to 'money' ie. for Chinese New Years usually restaurants have to pay big bucks for a lion dance team to perform. A go between could work out a price the restaurant would be comfortable with.
My kwoon does not charge too much because we just love to perform and we do so at the larger restaurants in Chinatown.

GHD

[yu shan]

GHD

I hear ya! I`ve got my foot in the door (so to speak) with the locals. I teach a kid`s KF class at the Nashville Chinese School, met numerous parent`s. By word of mouth we get these small performances which I trust will open the door for bigger venues. My go between person is well know and respected, and thanks to her, I`ve been excepted into their world.

We are not interested in the money factor, we just enjoy the challenge and the exposure. I have alot of experience with restaraunt shows (Florida), just never had to be on the business end of things. Funny thing is, the Asian business men in Florida would think nothing of the amount they put in the red envelope(s). They also made us WORK for this gift. It would make a neat thread about people`s stories on Chinese New Year Celebration`s and the difficulty in otaining the green`s.

Anyway, training a new team, front spot a Chinese girl who is very good. We will keep trying, and I will speak to my friend for help with the restaraunts.

BTW, are they still going by the good luck numbers for the money?

Thanks for the advice, have a good day.

[mantis108]

I think playing the "face" card is important for building your team. It used to be an huge honor to have a lion team from a respectable kwoon to come to celebrate a happy occasion such as grand opennings . Nowadays it is more "business" like but still the "face" is important. Notice the keywords are "face", "honor" and "respect". These things are matters of the heart not of the pocket book and they sure take a long time to build just like Kung Fu. In other words, you get to their hearts you get to their pockets. That's pretty much how Chinese people used to conduct their business. Be the business owners' friend, frequent their stores if you intend to have return business from them. I know it doesn't sound like normal business practices in Norther America but then lion dance and kung fu isn't exactly a business right? Remember sometime you have to lose to win. When we can do that we then become a true master.

Warm regards

Mantis108

[yu shan]

Mantis108

Thank you sir, I know what you mean about honor and respect. We do all kinds of Charity work. So we give alot to our Chinese community. The monetary gains are of no importance to me. This being said, shouldn`t there be an exchange of energy? Yes we give, but on the other hand, it is healthy to feed the Lion (kung fu school). :) We have been doing free stuff for a while now, with of course some paying customers.

My older KF brother has a nice approach. What do you think of just showing up at these establishments on a busy night and doing an exciting lion dance for free? Is this the showing face? Should this be pre-arranged? Or just show up unannounced...

I do frequent the locals businesses, usually in a big group. Spending time and money in these wonderful restaruants are quality time in my life...wouldn`t have it any other way.

Thank you Gold Horse Dragon & Mantis 108

Yu Shan

[hasayfu]

Yu Shan,

There was a period, especially in Hong Kong, where the gangs would use Lion Dance as a way to collect extortion money. I know one of my team members father-in-law who is from shanghai didn't like that his son-in-law did lion dance since that is gangster stuff. Just showing up may invoke this feeling.

Best way is to pick a few restaurants with auspicious locations for your dance. Personally speak with the owners and understand their POV on lion dance. Not every chinese loves this. You should be able to find a few that are willing to pay. If you get one to pay, don't do any free ones or do something special for that client.

You can also offer to post flyers or take an ad in the local paper about the upcoming show. This will be like marketing for the restaurant and make them think it's more then a dance. Discuss what other things your troup will do. Special puzzles, music around the area to draw folks, kung fu demo, etc.

Good luck. It's great to promote the art of lion dancing.

[yu shan]

M108, GHD, hasayfu, thank you for the quality input, taking my notes. Do you guys recommend the Lion Dance Forum?

We did a performance today for a birthday, 7 year olds. Only asked that the team get something in the red envelope. Everyone left happy...

What if we were to show up unannounced, do a short show, take no money, leave card. It`s gotta be a good thing!

[Gold Horse Dragon]

It may or may not work out. I would say the chances for it not working out too well are greater. Relate it to maxims for other circumstances...do not crash someone elses party (they will not like it and will throw you out), do not go where you are not invited or wanted...and what if they have made arrangements for another lion dance team to be there...boy are you in a pickle then!...and maybe a fight...better hope your team is from a good kung fu school!
It is always good manners and polite to make arrangements with the customer for the hire of the team. Follow the protocols and you will not go wrong.

GHD

[mantis108]

Glad to hear that you are working hard in building bridges and it's getting some headway. :) As for showing up unanounced, it's risky. If it is a place of business, the business traffic must be taken into consideration. After all you want to promote the business without disturbing the flow of income. I think it is best if the business owner(S) is "prompted" to send you an invitation which you'll of course gladly accept. ;) Come to think of it, suggestion on a day and time of visit linked to a certain occassion could help. If you can arrange to bring in potential business right of the bat, I think it is hard to refuse you from a business point of view. lol... That way the logistics are clear and a sucessful event can be assured. Whatever you decided to do, remember not to appear that you are eager for an audience. Most of all, enjoy your lion dance troupe. That is your labour of love.

Warm regards

Mantis108

[Yum Cha]

Well, if you don't have triad connections, it is a little more difficult....(just joking...)

Yu
Chinese New Year and August Moon are prime times, work around them both. I would suggest that your Lion Dancing "promoter" speak the language, thus, most likely be Chinese. Sorry, facts of life.

Look for new businesses in Chinatown that while rennovating, or preparing to open, have their signage covered with red paper, they are demonstrating traditional character, and may be interested in having your lion chase away bad luck before they open. Weddings too.

Patronise any of your patrons. If a restaurant hires you, give them your custom over the year, get to know them, and you will most likely be invited back if they like you.

Remember, the lion is not a begger, he does not go where he is not welcomed. As an option, perhaps you might offer to dance at a restaurant if they offer your crew a banquet in return...?

LIkewise, as some of the other people on this thread have mentioned, the lion is associated with "protection money" in some circles, so be careful about showing up "un-invited."

Good luck.

[GARRA DE TIGRE]

hello :

sorry for come out the topic of this trhead , but i am, building a lion head for myself and would appreciate a lot every detail you can give me about construction and seizes . i am from southamerica and get lion dance stuff is very difficult . nobody sell this here and is really expensive for me make a order to china or usa .

[LionDancer]

Greetings GHD, M108 & HaSayFu! Long time no talk/post.

Yu Shan....You may want to consider giving a small free demo/show with your class in Martial Arts and couple with the lion dance routine in a public area or even at the local chinese school where you teach. (of course will need to get the word out to the community about the demo) Not for money but for the community and also to promote yourselves. But make sure you clear it with the authorities first as a public event.....


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[yu shan]

Thank you all for your quality information, I really appreciate. Taking my notes...

[LionDancer]

Good Luck and pls let all of us know how it goes....

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