dealing with multiple oponents...

[bougeac]

hi, recently there has been a glut of assaults in the area that a live, involving 2 on one /3 on one multiple attack scenarios...

fights i have been in have always involved just one oponent
(and that was hard enough to deal with) but the way things seem to be these days, the possibility of a multiple attack doesnt seem that unreasonable...

ive talked to lots of other martial artists, read books/articles watched tapes in connection with this matter and there seems to be many schools of thought on how to deal with it...

whats everyones take on the multiple attack scenario?, is it survivable??, any tips/experiences/strategies that you can share??

[Neurotic]

Yeah, run, run like, well, there are 10 guys behind you...

I know that sounds stupid, but unless you have a VERY SPECIFIC reason to stay (maybe protect someone?) your highest priority should be flight.

So you fight to run. Only fight so that you can get out, and once out run. Someone gets in your way take them out so you can run more.

Of course there is heaps more to it - but it's not like the movies you won't be standing at the end with your foes lying down broken around you. (Well, you might be, but the odds are stacked against you)

Hence, another reason to run for fitness :D

[Merryprankster]

Learn BJJ. Then, pull guard.

[old jong]

Just tell them you learned BJJ!...;)

[rogue]

Tell them you're training to enter MMA competitions in two years.

[rubthebuddha]

running is the best answer, but if that's not the safest option, bring the attack to them, but do it in a why in which you line them up. this makes them more of individual threats because (hopefully) only one at a time can reach you. cut them down as soon as possible, and do NOT try to be the hero. make them no longer a threat to your escape and get the heck out.

[PaulH]

Run, Rabbit, run! If you must play the reluctant hero rescuing a damsel in distress here are some things that you can do from my observations of Gary Lam's videos:

1. Look for nice walls, trees, or any solid, pointy heavy objects where you can throw any human heads or body into. Why hurt your poor hands?

2. Learn to be a good billiard player. Grasp the nearest human ball and shoot the guy into the nearby odd balls. Watch forces collide! The push and pull skills come mighty handy.

3. As the object of the multiple assaults game is to pin you down in one place, make sure you are not sandwiched if you don't want to be eaten. Move smartly to frustrate their aims. I like how Mushashi lined up his assailants on the rice paddie and finished them off one at a time.

4. Crush the snake's head and the body dies. Look for that head and pound the guy into oblivion. Hopefully the rest of the body will take your cue and wiggle to somewhere else.

5. Fight away but look for a breakthrough on this gambling madness. Once you see it seize that escape route and run, rabbit, run.

Regards,

[Void Boxing]

What if you do not have the chance to run away, what if your cornered and you have no choice but to fight, what then?

I would say that wherever you train, you should probably train against multiple attackers to get a feel for it, to understand what it may be like for yourself to be in that situation. Sure run is a good option, but so is learning how to deal with it, just in case you get caught and you have no choice. Exposing yourself to it all, you will learn tactics to use.

[anerlich]

Practice your sprints and carry an Uzi 9mm. But seriously folks...

Defense is always a grey area, but if threatened by more than two people, you would probably be legally justified to defend yourself with an (improvised where laws prohibit carrying) weapon.

Basically run away to create space and string them out so you can deal with them one at a time, try to stay on the periphery of the group rather than get caught in the middle, try to position yourself and them so they are in each other's way.

Make sure you have a good medical plan as your chances of prevailing are not high.

[foolinthedeck]

running till u find a wall to stand up against.
wing chun doesnt need to retreat, and it cuts down on opponents options by 50% (ish, kinda)..
means they have to attack one at a time... maybe...

i was thinking though, if you were part of 3 guys attacking one other, would u attack all at once? only if u were stupid, and if separately then perhaps its just like doing one guy three times.

if all else fails, call BERGERAC.

[yenhoi]

The best way to deal with multiple opponents is to chainpunch.

Chainpunch the closest guy without looking at him, and then strike, strike, strike, stike, and strike the next guy, strike strike, and the next, and the next.

Dont even think about losing, just go.



:eek:

[PaulH]

Okay, if you stands against the wall, you will be crushed by superior force of the wolf pack. Two wolves - 4 arms, 4 legs, three - 6 arms, 6 legs. You - 2 arms, 2 legs. I never saw any preys want to be cornered as you suggested. Just don't want you or anyone to get hurt.

Regards,

[foolinthedeck]

well we dont have so many wolves in britain any more but did you ever see a badger get cornered??

if its simple numbers then your logic would be:
dont learn martial arts - just join a gang.

[PaulH]

Look, FTD. What is the truth of this matter? If it is true, let it be.

Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance. - W. Clement Stone

We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter. - Denis Diderot

There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James

[anerlich]

was thinking though, if you were part of 3 guys attacking one other, would u attack all at once? only if u were stupid, and if separately then perhaps its just like doing one guy three times.

I really hope if three guys attack me they come one at a time. Unlikely though. That only happens in HK movies.

It's a standard bouncer tactic just to dogpile a troublemaker if they have superior numbers. Works pretty well too.

Watch rugby. It's pretty common for the guy with the ball to get hit by two or more people at once.


wing chun doesnt need to retreat, and it cuts down on opponents options by 50% (ish, kinda)..

If there's three or more guys with screwdrivers and baseball bats, Wing Chun most definitely DOES need to retreat.

Getting your back to a wall does reduce the possibility of attack from behind, it also custs down YOUR mobility though. And You definitely need to be mobile.

[bougeac]

just call BERGERAC lol mate!!! (btw have u seen him fight, he kicks ass!!).

[Mr Punch]

LOL Bergerac.

Anerlich, what on earth is a 'dogpile'!?

BTW the way I deal with multiple attackers is I throw down my wallet and run like ****! Don't try to haggle!:D

Actually, the best ways I have dealt with multiple attackers were:

1) Run away.
Tried and tested. In one case, I ran away and left my GF at the time. I knew that the attackers only wanted me, and one of them was trying to disuade the others anyway, so I ran. I waited at the end of the bridge we were on, and made advancing moves, as though I was gonna come back, and they chased me. Of course, I would have gone back if they'd have given my GF and other friends any grief. That was a long time ago. Nowadays my ego/martial curiosity would probably have lead me to stay, fight and get stabbed.:rolleyes:

2) Immediately enlist multiple defenders.
Very effective! :D One of them was pretty **** hard and squeezed the head attacker into a smaller space than I would have thought humanly possible, before beating on him ferociously. One of the other 'attackers' begged me not to hurt him (I hadn't really laid a fist on him) and stayed around to scrape his friend up: the others ran like rabbits.

3) Wait for Robin Hood.
One time I was in the unfortunate position of being surrounded by eight young men, the leader of whom had punched me rather ineffectively (I let it happen and rode it while contemplating what to do). I think they were surprised that I'd stopped and looked prepared to take them on (I stopped running because the woman I was with was too bloody slow!:D)... And then, this hyuuuuge dread yardie comes out of the house opposite and says in a voice of tombstones being dragged over gravel:
"Do you whaaan some elp?" to us;
"That's not very fair buoys!" to them;
"You bedda go ome buoys n giiirl!" (we obliged).
:D
Wouldn't recommend the last minute movie rescue as anything other than a back-up plan however.:cool:

More seriously, other exps tell me:
1) Walls can be a blessing;
2) Doorways too (esp for us WCers!);
3) No, really. Just run.

[foolinthedeck]

paul h said:

Look, FTD. What is the truth of this matter? If it is true, let it be.

fool isnt sure what paul means...

but fool finds truth overated anyway, since he read zen and the art of motorcycle maintainence he digs quality more than truth.

so take your aristotlean dialectic away from fool before he turns into an aias of arete

[foolinthedeck]

oh, and i would run, run run, run little ego!!!
really, i just thought i'd stimulate discussion on badgers and fighting with back to wall. and some people did give some good reason not to use back to wall like loss of mobility.

:o

[PaulH]

No big deal, FTD. I just don't like long winded arguments on the obvious. Backing against the wall is a desperate measure and requires drastic solutions. It's a do or die thing as you cannot go backward but forward only. In warfare, generals were known to burn the bridges behind so that their soldiers will fight ferocious to survive knowing there is no escape but to destroy the incoming invaders. Now why would you put yourself in that situation if you can just run and dictate your fight at another time and at another place that are far more favorable to you and at your own choosing? You should try to be nobody's fool here! Ha!Ha!

Regards,

[foolinthedeck]

burning bridges does not create walls, it creates an impassible river, that may be a metaphorical river indeed. my tactical answer is that if the bridges are all burnt, and you cant run, then find the best place to defend from. staying mobile is definitely a key, but i would not just try to go directly thru the enemy in order to escape in the opposite direction to the wall metaphorical or real, no general would do this either.

furthermore, if the situation was as you described the best tactic would be to retreat across river using bridges and then attack enemy as he followed.

the answer is to use to terrain to your advantage, to disregard it is to invite disaster.

[PaulH]

Eureka! You are correct all(the )ways!

[hunt1]

Facing multiple attackers and prevailing has less to do with WC and more with understanding body language and human beings.
This is an area where I doubt any but someone with true streetfighting exp. will give you a complete answer.
One thing never to do is back yourself into a wall.

When confronted by a group of 3 or more and not facing an outright criminal situation look for the following:

Look for those that are not into the fight. Give away,Are they hanging back from the lead aggressor? Are they trying to calm the lead aggressor? Are they letting others get closer to your space? Usually in a group of 4 and beyond over half will exhibit this type of behavior. These are your escape routes. They will either back off outright when attacked or will throw punches while moving away. Next look for the crazy or the sneak. There is always one. He is the one entering your space on the side or behind while the aggressor gets in your face. He is your biggest danger but easiest to overcome. He should in many cases be your first attack if he is closer than the aggressor. You attack him first because he will be surprised by the action. He is closing in a way where he feels safe. He has the jump on you. He is also at heart a coward so will collapse fast and provide an escape. Also when the others see you take out the crazy they will slow down thus aiding your escape. Next and last is the lead aggressor. he is the one in your face with the big mouth he is also a bully and thus not use to someone standing up to him. He is also used to intimidating others. If he is closest and noone is sneaking up behind you or on your sides attack him first. Attack before they attack you. WC rule is my opponent moves but I move first. This is a great place to put this to work. After attacking him first move toward one of your escape routes. The biggest danger is the one in front that is close but quiet. He knows how to fight. He isnt a bully like big mouth but will back up his buddy. Avoid this one. Hopefully it is not a group of 2. 2 is bad because even the one not into fighting has to back up his bud and if he doesnt he cant hide the fact.
This is just a general overview work with it and you will find it works. I know thiis for a fact. Not just from my personal exp. But from those I have taught that have found themselves in a multi situation. Of course there are many variables but this framework will serve you well.