Yi Lu Mai Fu/ Er Lu Mai Fu

[Crimson Phoenix]

"First and second way of ambush"

Does anyone know about these sets passed down in Nanjing's central kuoshu institute long fist??
Where did they come from, what style do they belong to?
Anyone practiced them?
I'm not a specialist and I'm surely wrong, but they seem like they could be coming or at least be very influenced by Eagle Claw...any opinion/info on this??

Good practice!!

[Jimbo]

I briefly practiced Er Lu Mai Fu that I learned from a friend when I lived in Taipei. He had learned it from Chiang Chang-Ken, who was a student of Han Ching-Tan.

Although I know very little of its origins, I heard Han Ching-Tan's Long Fist was mainly Islamic style Chang Chuan (i.e., Cha Chuan, or Zhaquan).

Hopefully someone more familiar with that style will be more helpful.
Jim

[fajinpower]

Yi Lu Mai Fu/ Er Lu Mai Fu = Yi Lu Chuan / Er Lu Chuan???????????
If so, is this a Wu-Shu form or kungfu. To me, it looks like Wu-shu more than Kung Fu.

[Crimson Phoenix]

the Lu Mai Fus a form of wushu?? You gotta be kidding :-)
They require more waist power and contain more tricky (tricky as in the sense of "sucker shot", not "intricate useless movement") movements in the ten first moves than in all the PRC stuffs united hehehehehehhe
On the other hand I just witnessed that "Shi Zi Tang" from Nanjing Changquan starts excatly like Yi Lu Mai Fu (the first five moves are the same) and in Yang Jwing Ming's book it is said it builds in Yi Lu Mai Fu...since Shi Zi is mantis, maybe Yi Lu Mai Fu is Mantis-derived or inspired...thanks for the inputs anyway...
Jimbo, I don't think it would be muslim Cha Quan, but then again, what do I know? :D

[Jimbo]

Crimson Phoenix:
I'm not sure if it's Cha Chuan either, though I know it came through Han Ching-Tan's lineage. He was known to refer to his art as northern Shaolin, but he had a lot of Muslim style as well.

It is DEFINITELY NOT modern performance Wushu, the Mai Fu forms are traditional Chinese martial art sets. No resemblance whatsoever.
Jim

[TigerClaw]

It is a form we study in Longfist, Cha family lineage. I couldn't agree with Jimbo more. MOST DEFINATELY NOT WUSHU!! As for the beginning of Shi Tzu Tan (is this form what you mean?), I do agree that they share similarities, and as it is a higher form in out system, it makes sense that it builds upon Yi Lu Mai Fu. I would also like to stress that I have not yet learned Shi Tzu Tan (only a third year student), and as such am in no way able to critique it. As for Er Lu Mai Fu, my instructor spent much time and effort trying to find one to teach him, and came to the conclusion that it it Extremely similiar to Yi Lu Mai Fu.

[Crimson Phoenix]

Tiger, that's extremely interesting...so if I get it right, you study Cha quan, right? And yet you do have Shi zi tang (yes, indeed it is the pinyin of Shi Tzu Tan) in your curriculum? I am quite sure Shi zi is mantis, and I am very surprised that you have it in your curriculum too...do you study purely Cha quan, or have other long fists mixed in? By any chance, do you study Nanjing Longfist?
Or maybe Shi zi is a mantis form that has been adopted and somewhat modified in muslim Cha boxing? I would be very interested to know your opinion on that...as a matter of fact after pondering these forms again, Yi Lu and Er Lu could very well be Cha, I do not really feel mantis in them (but I'm not knowledgeable enough).
Take care!

[TigerClaw]

Crimson,
You're right that it is a mantis form, and yes, it has been adopted into our system. We have a strong muslim influence, as is evident by the ten line tan-tui routine. It is not the only mantis we have in our curriculum. We are titled as northern shaolin longfist, but the form I am currently working on is wu xing (sp?) butterfly, which is a southern form that has been adapted.

[TigerClaw]

When we learned Yi lu mai fu, we were told that it was the first "true" longfist form. Our progression was from shaolin chuan, the tan-tui's, lian bu chuan, gung le chuan, yi lu mai fu, wu xing butteryfly, and I believe the next two are shi tzu tan, and lohan chuan (not necessarily in that order). Based on that, I would say that Yi lu mai fu is the building block or essence of longfist. Everything I have "learned" before has become influenced by the expansion, flow, speed, and power expressed in the form. It is a difficult form to know, and one I greatly struggle with to express those characteristics above. That being said, it's also my favorite!

[Crimson Phoenix]

Wow, that's very interesting...you know, it's very similar for us, Lian Bu Quan and Gong Li Quan (which are our first two sequences) are seen as training sets rather than integral sequences...it's true that even if Jing Wu's Gong Li is very widespread and well known, when you practice it it just feels like a big and boring exercise to develop power for longfist :-)
Another similarity, it is said in our curriculum that when you master Yi Lu Mai Fu and Er Lu Mai Fu, then you "have built the foundation of longfist". It ressembles the saying in your school that Yi Lu is the first "pure" longfist sequence...
It's great to have your input, now I'm starting to really think that the Lu Mai Fu's could come from Cha boxing...
Take care!!

[TigerClaw]

I love practicing that form, after 2 years, you can appreciate why it is the power training sequence! Besides, I'm not what you would consider the sterotypical "skinny kung-fu guy", so those sequences of hammer fists really get me going!

[SwaiingDragon]

"Longfist" - by Ying Jwing Ming

It's difficult book to follow, but all his books are good for some history-

the second wave of ambush doesn't look like the first- some similiar techniques - shih tzu looks like the first wave but i think it's an evolution thing....