TCM in Pittsburgh

[bodhitree]

Does anybody know any herbalists in PGH?
Heping

[Pilgrim]

There used to be a guy in Pittsburg and I think his anme was Richard Lengil, Lingull, Langil who was an acupucnturist who also did herbs as most acupucnturists do. Look in the Yellow pages under acupuncture. He used to advertize in the Empty Vessel, a taoist magazine that's found at Borders and other book stores with a magazine rack. Around '96 he sponsored a chi gung seminar with Kwan Sai Hung.
Diet books read: Healing With Whole Foods; The Tao Of Nutrition; and Chinese System Of Food Cures, Prevention, and Remedies; Prince Wen Hui's Cook Chinese Dietary Therapy. There are also some spendy books from Churchill Livingston Pree/ Publications/Publishers. Look in Red Wing Books/Press.

[bodhitree]

Pilgrim, Thanks!

[RAF]

Try UPMC's Shadyside Center for Alternative Medicine (University of Pittsburgh Medical Center).

We have a top acupuncturist from Beijing who studied herbs in one of the top TCM schools practicing in the area but Ohio law does not permit use of herbs, yet.

[bodhitree]

Thanks RAF, I'll look into that!

[Pilgrim]

Wondering about Ohio and herbs
If Ohio does not allow people to practice herbs, what ever happened to the Lohan guy Hilton Tam and the woman Chinese acupuncturist,Susan Deng, who practiced in the same building in China Plaza and in other locations in Cleveland/ Did they have to give up their herb practice? I know there was a bone-setting guy who worked in one of the tacky novelty shops in China Plaza, started acupuncture, did he stop doing his herbs and liniments? There was also a Chinese couple who practiced Chinese herbs on the east side of C town, Lee Road. Doesn't one of your teachers or fellow student or person of Tony Yang's lineage own a health food store that sold herbs in a town outside of Akron? What about the Lung Ying Dragon style Chinese in Parma, did he give up herbs? Have the many food co-ops, Wild Oats stores stopped selling herbs? Did drug stores stop selling herbs?
I think not but I haven't been to Ohio in a while. Hopefully Ohio will reconize that all people can be trained to be excellent herbalists, even if not schooled in China but schooled in California. Which has several fantastic Chinese medical schools. Certain acupuncturists have been singled out and threatened with legal repercussions if they use herbs because herbs are not within the scope of their practice. ( And when was the last time you went to a grocery store, drug store, and did not see herbal products for sale?) However an acupuncturist can teach MDs at the Cleveland Clinic or Univerisity Hospital, about herbs. That's cause some MDs want to learn about alternative or complementary medicine. Ironic that one may teach but not practice. Especially since the classes are minimal in duration and information.
Hopefully you and your acupuncture friend can join forces,build those bridges with other acupuncturists/herbalists and change the scope of practice law. And make the law make all practitioners equally accountable.

[RAF]

Pilgrim:

The shops you cite are still practicing but they do it along a thin edge. NDs, herbaists, acupuncturists can't diagnose nor prescribe but sort of can answer questions patients have about conditions/herbs sort of if the patient asks. They can point to literature that suggests what it says about a condition and herbs etc..

Acupuncturists weren't even permitted to practice 4 years ago unless they were MDs or DOs. Even today they cannot diagnose and can only take patients who are referred to them by MDs or DOs. Kind of like a physical therapist.

I am not much into this but one of my closest friends (close to my wife, they are both from Beijing) is an acupuncturist and came back to practice in a the area after things changed. Hopefully it will change again but Ohio is still pretty controlled.


Here is the site to read about it:

http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/archives2002/apr/04kinchen.html


The Wutang Center for Martial Arts of Tony Yang's is the only school certifying the martial arts of Liu Yun Qiao in the area.

We are in the process of certifying students to teach the material and its been primarily in taiji. In the past, for example, we have had students come in, learn some praying mantis for a couple of months and then go out and open a school. We don't sanction it but we also can and will do nothing about it. Thats why we are in the process of developing a certification program and review along with specific teaching tapes but this is still in the making. Currently Tony makes available a periodical review of all students taught under his system.

Training students in our bagua system is at its infant stage and there is no one qualified/certified to teach the complete art or its complete training since Tony Yang has never taught anyone the complete system, even his formal students. Historically Bagua has not been a major part of Tony Yang's teaching curriculum. This weekend, for example. we are having a seminar that teaches the basic two man fight of our xiao kai men form (1st form). Its the first time this is being done along with basic ring training and rou shou. We are all "babes in the bagua woods".

Praying mantis has always been the mainstay and now, since 1997, we also emphasize baji/pigua. We teach a lot of 8 step mantis which has bagua/xing yi techniques and applications.

The only person certified to teach baji/pigua is Mr. James Finley, a 20 year practitioner under Tony Yang and currently contiues his study under Tony Yang. Mr. Finley does a lot of the baji public demonstrations along with some of the bagua and teaches his own classes at the Center and is reviewed by Tony Yang quite frequently along with his students. In 1998, Taiwanese practitioners observed him and rated him an "A+". Master Su Yu Zhang also recognizes Jim Finley as Tony Yang's top baji/pigua student. For the rest of us, we just continue to train our basics. There are some young guys really coming along and in 4 or 5 years will carry the baji/pigua curriculum of the school.

Our Yang and Chen's taiji is coming along nicely and we teach a really nice taiji sword. We primarily teach Liu's taiji abstractions (32 and 45 Yang's and 1st, 2nd and 3rd level of Chen's along with lao jia. Pao Chui has yet to have been taught but the 3rd abstraction leads into pao chui.)

Its only been since 1997 that my teacher has decided to come out and try to make a living as a martial artist and over time he will try to carefully market the material such that the basic jiben gong will be emphasized. The big picture is a long way off but we are trying. Thats been the purpose of the article writing in the Journal of Asian Martial Arts and other publications.

My postings are intended to let people know where and what direction Tony Yang's Center is headed. We have a Hall of Fame Tournament every year and have very close ties to MeiHua Praying Mantis of Yan Tai and Qingdao, Shandong Province (Master Yang's father was originally from Jinan, Shandong). Rob Peterson is our point man in Meihua praying mantis and learned from both Sun De Yao and another guy from Yan Tai.

So you can see, praying mantis is still emphasized greatly at the school. If you get a chance, come visit or come to the tournament in the fall.

I hope this help clear the current status of Ohio.

[Pilgrim]

Hi
Couple of quick blerbs
I know the article and Ann; too bad she doesn't have bucks to attempt a law suit since she has been discriminated against. She ventured into the turf of Dr. Grotte (who as a MD can do anything regarding alternative medicine-and he's trained and goes abroad often to study with some of the best) and Chinese folks who having been doing acupucnture since the mid 1980s when they came to Cleveland and acupucnture was illegal.
Hopefully your friend from Beijing can approach Ann and other acupuncturists who are not American MDs and create an Ohio Acupuncture Association, find allies in thre political arena and modify the laws.
Enough of that stuff which is my own opinion only.
Your school's Xiao Kai Men tape looks good and in the near future I'm going to buy it. Doesn't your BaQua system have a stance form to help postures, alignment and further strengthen the legs?

[RAF]

Pilgrim:

The xiao kai men original form is linear. However, we combine it into the circle walking and it employs the single and double palm changes. At the end of each circle walking we employ the standing post exercise.

Later we train something called the 64 internal movement form which contains the 8 mother palms. At the end of the form we use a variation of the standing post exercise which employs various static 8 mother palm postures. There is also a dynamic or moving set of the 8 mother palms but Count is much more qualified to speak about these.

As I said, our bagua system and training is in its infancy.

The xiao kai men is worth learning and I think the tape is fairly explanatory. You will also find some of the applications on it. At the seminar today, we learned the applications using rou shou.

I don't get much involved in acupuncture. I use it and appreciate it but the Ohio politics are well beyond my expertise.

Hope this helps.