Modern Wushu and "professional" actors...

[shaolin kungfu]

Does anyone think that "normal" actors can learn to do the type of things that Jet Li and many other "wushu actors" do?

Actors like Jet Li and Jackie Chan devoted their lives to studying modern wushu. Now, we have people like Keanu Reeves trying to immitate them and, in my opinion, aren't doing a very good job.

Thoughts, comments?

[Laughing Cow]

I don't think that they can emulate them easily.

Jet Li and Jackie Chan are on the top of the wushu performers below them is a huge mountain of other guys.

Keanu Reeves studied Movie-Fu for a few month.

Actors just need to look impressive enough to fool the average uninformed movie goer, if this is achieved with the aid of wires or CG it does not matter.

Those guys are bassically con-artists that pretend to be able to do or be certain things when they are not.

Cheers.

[chen zhen]

Jackie Chan is not a modern-wushu practicioner. He first studied Chinese-opera-Fu;) , and traditional styles.

[Sho]

Some people can, some people can't.

I'll tell my cruel body type theory. It all depends on the body type of an individual. Some people don't have the types of bodies to start doing gymnastics or hardcore changquan and ditangquan, even if they started at a young age. The ones who want to become the best need to have sports-oriented body types with an ability to quickly absorb what has been shown or taught and imitate body movements with maximum precision and grace.

[Former castleva]

Chan probably ranks among those actors who seem to both do their own stunts and manage to look at least relatively believable,as far as that is possible in MA movies.

Imo Jet Li flicks and related "con-artist" stuff gets wire-flying enough to not be taken as any more than eye-candy for those interested,you cannot honestly think anyone would pull that off.
If the trend keeps it´s ways,they could as well replace them with animated actors.

[jun_erh]

and even the good ones are studying the real flashy stuff to the detriment of their real fighting skills

[Kristoffer]

pretty much, yeah

[shaolin kungfu]

LOL at Kristoffer.:D

[Starchaser107]

I think the wirework thing and special effects is unnecessary and getting tired. imho growing old very fast for my own tastes. I'd prefer to see a more realistic approach to martial arts films to give people a truer understanding of what it's all about. I agree with Former Castleva where he says after a while they might as well just start animating the **** things, at least then it could be appreciated more as fantasy.
I think wires and effects help when its total sci fi, but in Jet Li films Especially the american ones It sucks ..I mean it SUCKS , and I hope someone decides to focus on making a good movie based on reality sometime soon.

[shaolin kungfu]

I hear "the bourne identity" had some fairly realistic Kali.:)

I could be wrong though.

[chen zhen]

Kali featured in movies sounds unrealistic in itself.

[GLW]

The earlied Jet Li films..although they did use some wires, had some pretty incredible feats.

For example, Li in a sitting crossed leg pose, turning to spin up and jumping into a Tornado kick. No wires used...that move is part of normal training...but it is VERY hard and definitely not done as fast or as high as Jet Li was able to do it...THAT was why he was a national champion.

The wires in China are not that big a thing. There is a tradition of Swordplay/Martial novels where the characters do amazing feats...and the wires there are just viewed as a way to display that aspect of the story.

The more trickery they use, however, the BETTER the storyline and acting had better be...otherwise, it would indeed get boring.

[jun_erh]

they really are two different things though, fighting and movie fighting. my teacher fought one of these guys. My teacher was a prison guard and fought in gambling halls throughtout asia like human ****fights basically. This other teacher stopped alot of his fighting stuff to study wushu in Hong kong, though he was really talented fighter. They fought, who the **** do you think won? Then again, who has the bigger paycheck? (by a couple of zeros!)

[chen zhen]

Your teacher sounds like a badass:)

[Starchaser107]

Anyone ever seen this jet li flick called "the master", where jet's sifu relocated to america and was selling chinese herbs and practicing traditional medicine. and this american guy who learnt from him for a while,as well as others (we assume) came back to challenge him , and destroyed his store. jet li comes to visit america in search of his sifu , but finds the shop abandoned. He befriends three latino thieves and teaches them to use sticks. Yadda yadda yadda... that show. Well I can appreciate it cause it had no wires...(it also had horrible acting and dubbing, and was definately definately straight outta the 80's)

If they do more of that type of stuff, without making it seem like every bum on the face of the earth is a martial arts guru and has undergone decades of training just to pull off the stuff they do. And if they write better plots and get better actors...So there will be no more BulletProof Monks where people learn kungfu from martial arts cinema 70's films in an old movie theatre. I mean ...good grief Stiffler from American frikkin Pie.

[jun_erh]

starchaser- maybe i'll watch that movie again, but I remember expecting A LOT more out of a tsui hark-Jet Li collaboration. But this guy (http://www.ronlim.com/martial.html) likes it

chen zhen - hahaha my point was about the training, but he is tough. He's training for UFC. I'm just a guy in the class, not near that caliber. It's kuo shu - chinese military style.

[jun_erh]

also, Bruce Lee's movies were the greatest. From a commercial and martial arts standpoint, they were amazing. So why do they think people won't go see it if it's not with the wires?

[chen zhen]

Kuo shu just means "National art", or something like that..right? but what does the MA they teach to chinese soldiers comprise of? I know they teach San Shou and has some iron-body training, but what is it exactly they train?

[jun_erh]

well, kuo shu does mean national art but Kuo Shu with a capital K refers specifically to what was it, the Taiwanese army? I can't remember. That's what they called it. Chuan Kuo Shu. So, in this context it refers to the training they got for combat. I haven't learned alot of the other stuff my teacher knows, like all the stuff with knives, not to mention firearms.
The "style" itself is sort of loose, as it consists of whatever the army says it is. There are no forms (although my teacher does this weird internal form with chin na's, like grabbing an imaginary arms and the another, he does it for like hours) There is a book called "108 movements of the Shaolin wooden men hall" by Leung Ting that looks a bit like our class.

Generally, the applications involve a side step to a punch, to another punch then a trip/ throw to chin na/ break. There is always a resolution of containment (as opposed to like a punch or a trip, push) which is perhaps where the police side of it comes in.

We don't really train the way he trained. When he had his school in Chinatown, here in Boston, he did like eight hours a day. In general very external. Bodybuilding, lots of pain, etc. It was a wild time around ten years ago. Almost daily fighting between the schools, of which there were quite a few.

This probably isn't that interesting reading the guys biography so I'll just end it by noting that his teacher was in his seventies when he taught him! and my teacher says he had the hardest punch he's ever felt!

[chen zhen]

The school sounds fantastic;)
what is your teachers name? I could maybe find some information about him/kuo shu myself on the net.

[jun_erh]

Paul Rosado. I've never seen anything about him on the net though. I just stumble upon things some how. I'm on vacation from class, just conditioning and working on the bag and stuff. I was doing that class and learning basic hung gar at the same time for like a year.

One guy from kuo shu is in Brazil studying Capoeira. To each his own. Better him than me :D

[chen zhen]

ok..thanks:)