No more use for traditional weapons?

[Laughing Cow]

Who said that we don't face traditional weapons in our everyday life.

Here is a story from the Sun:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2003262028,00.html

Even over here in the last few years we saw an increase of murders and attacks by people that use traditional weapons.

With MA weapons now being freely sold via the Net and many of then coming pre-sharpened I still see a big danger coming from traditional weapons.

And in such attack cases I feel that modern self defense methods and weapons will not work that good.

Just some thoughts.

Cheers.

[yenhoi]

What are "traditional weapons"?

Like swords and staffs and crossbows?

Im a big fan of flexible weapons.

:eek:

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by yenhoi
What are "traditional weapons"?
Like swords and staffs and crossbows?


Yep, these days anybody can go online or walk into a MA shop pick up a weapon and a video on how to use it.

While I like the easier access to the info and goods, I am still somehow split in my Opinion if it is a good thing.

Personally, I feel you should be given/sold a weapon by your Sifu when you are ready to train with it.
Or only be able to buy one with a cert from your Sifu or similar.



Im a big fan of flexible weapons.
:eek:

I like flexible wapons too,
Learned to use a few.

BTW, I doubt if the attacker in that article went through proper training with his weapon or even attendet a MA school.

Cheers.

[Serpent]

The trouble is, you can't set any good guidelines for something like that. What's to stop someone from making up a recommedation from an imaginary sifu? You'd need to have all the MA instructors in the world registered with a recognised body.

That ain't gonna happen.

This is really no different to some nutcase shooting someone randomly or stabbing them with a pocket knife. You can't control the inanimate object doing the damage. You have to control the people not to be such ruthless idiots. Obviously, sometimes you're still going to get an idiot.

Look at Columbine in America and Port Arthur in Australia. There's two countries with drastically different gun ownership laws but very similar tragedies. Of course, that sort of thing is much more common in the US, but that's a whole different thread! ;)

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by Serpent
The trouble is, you can't set any good guidelines for something like that. What's to stop someone from making up a recommedation from an imaginary sifu? You'd need to have all the MA instructors in the world registered with a recognised body.

That ain't gonna happen.

Actually it is happening in quiet a few countries already.

All you would need is a background check of Sifu name and school in a national register of MA schools.

You open a school you get registered as a MA teaching business/Institution.

Foolproof, no, nothing is.

Why worry about the WHOLE world, no weapons sold to tourists.

Over here we got membership cards for Dojo's/Kwoon's which reflect if your memberhsip is up to date(actively training) or not.


Another advanatage of getting your weapons via your instructor would be quality control of said equipment.
I have seen some nasty accidents involving cheap or badly serviced gear.


Cheers.

[Laughing Cow]

Show of hands.

How many people here read the article I linked to?

[Ben Gash]

I have. The problem is that these weapons are available from too many non MA sources. The majority of live bladed katanas are sold to people who don't do MA. These are people who've seen Highlander and Blade and think it would be cool to have one.

[dezhen2001]

LC: sorry to go off topic, but what the heck is that bull doingin the avatar? :D

dawood

[chen zhen]

does'nt FMA train traditional weapons..?

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by dezhen2001
LC: sorry to go off topic, but what the heck is that bull doingin the avatar? :D

dawood

Not too sure. Hard to find an Avatar of a Cow/Bull.
:D

Hope you are enjoying it down under, have a Two Dogs for me.

Cheers.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by Ben Gash
I have. The problem is that these weapons are available from too many non MA sources. The majority of live bladed katanas are sold to people who don't do MA. These are people who've seen Highlander and Blade and think it would be cool to have one.

I fully agree.

[Judge Pen]

Permission from your sifu to purchase a traditional weapon? I can't imagine a blackmarket for chain whips. :)

What are the constituitonal ramnifications for regulating the ownership of daos?

[yenhoi]

I think it would be pretty silly to register MA'ists and their fancy swords. All objects are weapons, if they cant get a katana to kill you with, they will use something else.

Weapons dont cause the problems, stupid people do.

Get rid of stupid people, shoot them into the sun once a year or something. Old people too.

:eek:

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
Permission from your sifu to purchase a traditional weapon? I can't imagine a blackmarket for chain whips. :)

What are the constituitonal ramnifications for regulating the ownership of daos?

What constitutional ramificatmifications, the majority of the people on earth don't follow US laws of the US constitution.

Cheers.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Laughing Cow


What constitutional ramificatmifications, the majority of the people on earth don't follow US laws of the US constitution.

Cheers.

That's why there would be a blackmarket. :)

I just figured that we were dealing with US law since the article you linked occurred in the US.

[MasterKiller]

Judge,
I don't know which article you read, but the one LC linked to is in the UK, not US.

[Judge Pen]

Oops. You are right. I apologize.

[kwaichang kaned]

I agree with cow on this.
Weapons should only be made available through the sifu/school.
Because this took place in the U.K the goverment here are famous for their knee jerk reation banning the offending item.
Remember the big fuss over "Devil Dogs" the pitbull? Irresponsible owners let their dogs attack and maim people.THe end result? the All pitbull owners had to have their dogs catrated/sterelized and registered.So once the last dog dies theoretically no more pitbulls.Everyone suffered .
The same could be applied to hand guns.
Some nut runs riot through a school and kill kids with a number of handguns.
i don't intend to make light of that situation it's just too terrible for words
But the goverment leaps off the deepend and bans all handguns over a certain calibre.Even in registered gun clubs.The situation got so bad that at one point olympic competitors in certain calibre divisions may not have been able to compete because they are not allowed to own the gun.
HOw long before they latch onto MA weapons?
It won't be the "nut" who suffers because as it has already been pointed out they'll just find another way hurt people.No, it will be the MA practitioner who loses out on an integral part of their training because they cannot obtain the weapons to train with.
All we can do is make it as difficult as possible for anyone outside of the MA community to get these weapons.

[MasterKiller]

I may be mistaken here, but aren't MA weapons illegal to possses outside of a school in California and Maryland? I thought I saw a news article about the legislation in Maryland a few months ago.

[PLCrane]

Yeah, I read the article. That's pretty scary. My recommendation is that whether it be a sword, a stick, a wrench, a beer bottle or a chair, block the arm, not the weapon.


PLC

[dwid]

The problem is that these weapons are available from too many non MA sources.

Actually, it seems that all of the highest quality weapons are available from non-ma sources.

If you want a good katana, you go to Bugei, not to some cheap ma supplier.

The whole idea of regulating this stuff is completely absurd.

I guess we can start regulating kitchen knives next, so you can only buy them from culinary arts schools. And baseball bats, so you can only buy them from baseball coaches.

[Starchaser107]

kwaichang kained:
All we can do is make it as difficult as possible for anyone outside of the MA community to get these weapons.




Until a deranged martial artist commits a grotesque crime , and consequently the manhunt begins for all martial artists. Ban all martial arts. Well, that's where you're going with this logic anyway.

I think it might be a better idea to sell decorative replicas of traditional weapons, in this case swords ,to non-certified untrained would be buyers.

Martial artist doesnt necessarily equate to morally and mentally stable and sound. So in the tragic case that an unstable martial artist loses thier mental faculties , that would only make for a more skillful and proficient homicidal maniac.

Take for instance the sordid situation with the va. sniper who's reign of terror disgusted us all and placed most of the dc virginia and surrounding areas in fear. The Adult behind this was trained by the u.s. military , and the juvenile simply another contributor to the bad reputation jamaicans have . Anyways the point being training only makes an undesirable situation more lethal.

The very next step after regulating the weapons would be regulating the martial artist themselves. Somebody really needs to identify WHY these problematic and Dangerous people emerge in the first place , and deal with THAT instead of punishing the good along wit the bad. Its antequated , uncivilized and ignorant , and that way of thinking needs to GO.

[David Jamieson]

Actually, it seems that all of the highest quality weapons are available from non-ma sources.

I kinda disagree with this. You can indeed get decent quality weapons from martial arts suppliers. Granted, you can also get cheap ones.

Frankly, most people are better off starting with a cheap one and practicing with it before they go out and spend 100's or even 1000's of dollars on a custom weapon.

I have an assortment of both, with prices ranging from 49$ sword to 1500$ sword with a few 200-400$ pieces here and there.

If you don't know what it is you are getting, then why buy it?

Anyway, Martialartsmart has some excellent quality weapons for sale at fair prices. They also have a good variety of what i would call "practice" weapons. For considerably less monies.

cheers

[dwid]

Frankly, most people are better off starting with a cheap one and practicing with it before they go out and spend 100's or even 1000's of dollars on a custom weapon.

It kinda depends on your motives.

If you are interested in collecting weapons because you appreciate the beauty of the craft of weapon design and construction, then it makes sense to limit yourself to buying quality pieces.

Frankly, the only people who have any reason to buy practice pieces (by definition) are people who are interested in practicing weapons forms or whatever.

Lots of people interested in weapons still end up buying crap because they don't know any better, but I think the motive of the majority of people who buy traditional weapons is one of aesthetic interest.

Anyway, it's not like you need a $2000 bugei katana to go on the rampage on the subway or whatever. The crap you can buy on HSN would probably work just as well.

:D

[kwaichang kaned]

Starchaser,
I fail to see how making it difficult for anyone who is not a registered martial arts practitioner from getting trad ma weapons will lead to a ban on all martial arts?
The Psyco's who go on the street with the intent of hurting someone will do so .There is no stopping them
What i don't want to see is martial artist suffer and their practise suffer from a ban of sale of Martial Arts weapons.
And if these kinda situations continue to occur in Britain the current goverment (who loves a bandwagon to jump on as it hides their own failings) will set about trying to ban them.
Why would anyone outside of martial arts want or need to own one of these weapons anyway?

[Black Jack]

I am got going to get sucked into this but I will say controlling the weapon availability does not control violent crime. The reverse end has actually been demostrated.

That said I don't believe traditional chinese weapon attacks are anything to really fear in terms of realistic percentages. A guy breaks into my house with a katana and the principles still remain the same.

Don't worry about controlling other people. Just take care of yourself and your own. To be blunt though I don't really mean it rude.

Mind your own business. :D

[dwid]

A guy breaks into my house with a katana and the principles still remain the same.

This made me smile.

A guy who breaks into my house with a katana is in for a world of pain. I don't care if he's a reincarnation of Musashi himself. I'll put dollars to donuts of Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson beating Mr. Musashi anyday.
:D

[Black Jack]

Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson are GOOD people. I would let them date my sister.:D

I also think Mr. Colt is pretty handy himself. Good peeps.

[Starchaser107]

Well Kwaichang , you've stated that you have a "Bandwagonist" governemet as you put it right. If the logic that says a "katana" for instance was the weapon responsible for the violent crime therefore it should be banned or regulated. What then, if it is proven by those same standards that the weilder is a martial arts practicioner?..Or what if some series of random people are beaten severely or even killed by an attacker with bare fists and kicking?, wouldnt this same "Bandwagonist" government therefore say that "martial arts" was the weapon responsible for the crime , therefore practicioners should be regulated?

i'm sure you've heard that "guns dont kill people , people kill people" the solution does not come in the shape of restrictions and stupid laws that say if youre not certified you cant own a weapon. I'm sure that these offenders could not care less wether or not the law says he or she is certified by a martial arts school to weild a dangerous weapon. As Black Jack plainly pointed out controlling the weapon availability does not control violent crime.

DWID:
I guess we can start regulating kitchen knives next, so you can only buy them from culinary arts schools. And baseball bats, so you can only buy them from baseball coaches.

exactly. precisely the point. If someone wants to go on a murderous rampage they will do so with whatever tools are available. The problem lies with a disfunctional society/ planet which produces unstable elements.

A harmless enthusiastic fan or collector should not have to suffer because of the stupidity and violent apathy of some deranged individual/s.

peace.

[Black Jack]

Good post Starchaser,

Maybe we should also ban shoes because its the shoe hurting the person getting kicked and not the guy doing the kicking. If we do that all the karate guys who practice barefoot will have the advantage.:D

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by Judge Pen


That's why there would be a blackmarket. :)

I just figured that we were dealing with US law since the article you linked occurred in the US.

Really I thought it was in the UK not the US.

[MasterKiller]

Hey LC, you're about a page too late with that one. I got your back on the top of page 2.

[Laughing Cow]

MK.

Sorry, just woke up. Noticed it after I posted.

BJ.

NOBODY is talking about banning any weapons, just make them available only to people that are trained in their usage

There are many things already sold in a similar mthod.

Example:
A friend came over here and I took him to a shop that sells professional movie making gear (cameras, etc).
He mentioned that back in the US you can't even attend a show for stuff like that unless you got your union or similar card to proof that you are in the business.

Also there is no need to register any student with the goverment if you got your Dojo/Kwoon/Dojang memberhip card.


Cheers.

[yenhoi]

Yah. I think all that silly registration stuff is just silly registration stuff. I would probably break the law if there were laws like that in my area, but I wouldent ***** about it and make all sorts of noise and waste energy on it. Just like pot laws. Just smoke your pot.

:rolleyes:

I think today in my environment the best weapons to train are: sticks, knives, belts, and guns - and I think all are viable and necessary.

:eek:

[yenhoi]

Also in some places it might be beneficial to know about things that explode, and chemical/biological stuff. If anything studying treatment (beyond first aid) etc.


:confused: