emin bostepe v clip

[russellsherry]

hi guys their is a very good video of sifu bostepe doing chi sau with elbow techiques at the chiargo site man that guy can hit hard peace russellsherry

[Void Boxing]

Whats the site?.....

[russellsherry]

hi mike go to e. b. m . of kentucky clik on chicargo site though the links page russellsherry

[Gandolf269]

Here's the actual link:
http://wt-chicago.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/sifu_in_action.mpeg

[WCis4me]

I had some trouble trying to locate the clip with the information given. I have found a clip of Emin Boztepe doing chi sau, not sure if it is the same one russellsherry was referring to, but here is the link to simplify the process for those who ran into the same trouble I did in locating it.
http://www.ebmas.net/video/sifueminchi-sau.mpg

Oops I see gandolf and were doing the same thing at the same time. I don't see chi sau on Gandolf's link though.
The one I provided is strictly chi sau.


Vicky

[Knifefighter]

One of these days I'd like to actually see a top WC/VT practitioner fighting with his techniques against and actual resisting, skilled opponent.

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
One of these days I'd like to actually see a top WC/VT practitioner fighting with his techniques against and actual resisting, skilled opponent.
You must live a quiet life. :p

Or are you not a Wing Chun practitioner?

[yuanfen]

Knifefighter- Real fights are not always or even usually videotaped and marketed. There are people I know who have used their wing chun skills successfully in real self defense situations. I can give you names- but what good would that do?

I also know folks who have used wc very successfully in martial sports competition. Again these folks have not got themselves taped and marketed the tapes out of vanity or for commerce..

Whether someone has seen real wing chun in action depends on location, context and access.

The objectives of the folks I refer to were to test one's own wing chun skills and not to be popular on the net..

One has to be on their own journey...you cant fight for someone else. Forums cannot fill in the gaps in self esteem. My own view has always been that if someone does not trust their own wing chun--- they should do something else.
No point in sticking with an art that doesnt work for you(generic you not personal).

And if good wing chun gets overwhelmed in popularity by mma-
no tears shed on my part--jkd is fairly popular too. <g>.Sloppy wing chun should go the way of the dodo.

Incidentally- in some of the threads folks get into name calling
(pajama crowd lol). In passing- I am no stranger to conventional sparring- it does not enhance wing chun skills though some of it can help overcome some folk's personal fears. There are folks who need a punch in the nose to wake them up. But the right kind of chi sao-
not mechanical rolling- when it becomes gor sao and lat sao-progressively
opens up the development of wing chun skills far better than "sparring".

Of course- if one is going to enter different competition- as NTC pointed out--- competition specific regimen and adjustment needs to be added.
Even in sports- training for a 3 round mateur fight is different froma pro 10 rounder.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Real fights are not always or even usually videotaped and marketed. There are people I know who have used their wing chun skills successfully in real self defense situations. I can give you names- but what good would that do?

I also know folks who have used wc very successfully in martial sports competition. Again these folks have not got themselves taped and marketed the tapes out of vanity or for commerce..


OK... I'll agree with the first part. There is a high probability that a video camera will not be present to record someone using WC/VT skills in a SD situation.

The second observation regarding sports competitions is horsehockey. Almost every sports competition is videotaped these days. Don't you find it a little suspicious that there is not one single videotaped example of a "good" or "real" WC/VT person who has demonstrated his skills against another skilled, resisting opponent in any environment? The only examples we seem to have are these videos of these fighters (which everyone here seems to think are beginners) and a blurry video of two "masters" rolling on the ground for a couple of minutes over 10 years ago.

[yuanfen]

Horsehockey?=Polo variant maybe.

Knifefighter- I dont see much evidence of wing chun in your remarks...but no matter.

Videotaping has gradually become quite common. But even in the 80s---not all interstyle matches were videotaped.There might be some amateur tapes around. I was and am still more interested in watching rather than taping.

I do not find it astounding that top flight wing chun folks have not entered sporting contests... atleast upto now. For some it can be
an issue of sufficiency of money or principle.

You wont find top flight pro boxers (first five in WBA/WBC) either in mma contexts- not enough money. Some performing bears like to be paid sufficiently. Tyson has been going downhill lately---he
may eventually be enticed to be a mma caricature...he is well on his way-downhill- lately.

[black and blue]

One of these days I'd like to actually see a top WC/VT practitioner fighting with his techniques against and actual resisting, skilled opponent.

When we Chi Sau at our Kwoon it is always with resisting partners. No one just stands there and lets themselves get beaten black and blue... errr... except Black and Blue, who tries but often fails.

If you're ever in the UK come to one of our classes. The seniors are NOT playing around when they Chi Sau

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by yuanfen
You wont find top flight pro boxers (first five in WBA/WBC) either in mma contexts- not enough money.

But you CAN easily see examples of them using their fighting skills against other skilled, resisting opponents.

[yuanfen]

Sure knifefighter--- boxers are dangerous...but evena Lewis
is peaked at 37- a young man's sport.

For skilled gor sao with skilled opponents you have to know whre and when- there is no money involved and they are not trying to impress an audience.

[russellsherry]

hi guys to vicky and others, thanks for your help bostepe sifu is
one of my idols , and i hope to meet him when i come to
the states.peace russell sherry

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Sure knifefighter--- boxers are dangerous...but evena Lewis
is peaked at 37- a young man's sport.

For skilled gor sao with skilled opponents you have to know whre and when- there is no money involved and they are not trying to impress an audience.

The peak performances in any physical activity (especially fighting) that requires reflexive ability, stamina, strength, power, endurance will occur by those in their 20's to early 30's. WC practioners are no exception to the laws of human physiology.

[flaco]

have you ever seen mantis in the street,thai in the street,kyokoshinkai,etc. of course there arent cameras around. however, hawkins cheung sells a tape of some of the old rooftop fights in hong kong, if you want to check that out.
chi sau prepares you for close range, however, many wc guys cant close the gap successfully, and get hit, or grappled. again, its not the art, its the way you train. as far as lat sau, i think its a cool drill, however, some very high level wt guys say it is just a marketing thing, to make money, and add to a curriculum, nobody in the street is going to pak punch over and aover, as we throw round kicks, trap, etc. its a very good drill for attributes, but nobody fights like that except wt, i think time would better be spent against the rounder punches, that are thrown in the street.
although, like i said, its a great drill, and good for wt or wc vs wc. but on the first punch, any descent martial artist will use footwork, lat sau is more of standing across from each otherdirectly facing each other.
of course i have not learned the complete lat sau, all levels, so im open for any more comments to help me learn more about it.

[reneritchie]

Boztepe by g'n'p, R1, looks like an average of :15

[hunt1]

Am I the only one that is underwhelmed by this?

[KingMonkey]

Hmmm, you mean European WT lat-sau ?
It's a drill not a fight just like chi-sau. Intended to encourage certain skills and reactions which would be useful in a fight rather than simulate one exactly. It has it's good and bad points IMHO.

Good being stance training, reinforcing centre line pak-sao's and punches, practising dealing with kicks and punches at the same time, practising recognizing different punches(straight, low swinging) and reacting accordingly, side changes ie adopting a different angle and attacking on it very quickly. Also when both people are reasonably competent it can be a good workout.

Bad being encourages alternating rather than nearly simultaneous pak/punch, can become quite static, can reinforce a passive reaction to a kick on entry rather than aggressive forward motion.

[WCis4me]

Originally posted by hunt1
Am I the only one that is underwhelmed by this?
Nope.

[fa_jing]

Originally posted by Knifefighter

Don't you find it a little suspicious that there is not one single videotaped example of a "good" or "real" WC/VT person who has demonstrated his skills against another skilled, resisting opponent in any environment? The only examples we seem to have are these videos of these fighters (which everyone here seems to think are beginners) and a blurry video of two "masters" rolling on the ground for a couple of minutes over 10 years ago.

FYI, FWIW - watch out for my clips in about a month. I'm reviewing my videos so that a fellow in Texas can do the editting. You will see my instructor posterize me a few times using Wing Chun movements during sparring. He is certainly a top-notch MA and an expert in WCK, however he favors JKD in general so I'm sure that some would discount him for that.
I will also post all 4 of my full-contact matches, 2 of which I won and 2 I lost, with the caveat that I am merely intermediate level of MA, and didn't display my own full potential, except for a few good moments. I did indeed revert to an earlier tournament style (high kicks) at times due to the particular feeling of being in a comp which triggered 12-year-old memories, but mostly I would say that I was doing WC or a reasonable facsimile. I'll also post the other fights from the second comp - Karate, Muy Thai, and Shaolin were also represented.

[yuanfen]

Neither the chi sao that we do or the lar sao are mere "drills' in the common usage of that term.

And Knifefighter- you are welcome to your opinions.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Neither the chi sao that we do or the lar sao are mere "drills' in the common usage of that term.


I asked this on a couple of other threads, but just in case you don't see them there, I'll ask again here.

How is you chi sao different and how is it more applicable to real fighting than the chi sao people are thinking of?

[yuanfen]

I posted an appropriate and relevant answer on the fight club thread. You are asking the same question on different threads?
Now tell me ... what do you do in the martial arts?

[WCis4me]

Flaco Wrote:

hawkins cheung sells a tape of some of the old rooftop fights in hong kong, if you want to check that out.
Ok now that is something I would like to see. I didn't realize any existed.

I will definately be looking into getting a copy.

Thanks for the tip.

Regards,
Vicky

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by yuanfen
I posted an appropriate and relevant answer on the fight club thread. You are asking the same question on different threads?
Now tell me ... what do you do in the martial arts?

I asked the same question because you made the same reference to your chi sao not being a drill and being applicable to the real world in both posts, I believe. I didn't see an answer on the other thread, so I was asking again. Would you mind giving some specific examples of how you do your non-drilling chi sao training?

As far as what I currently do- BJJ, wrestling, Muay Thai, boxing, knife, and stick. I started off in WC years ago and I still have a passing interest in what WC practioners are doing these days.

[yuanfen]

Knifefighter-sez
Sounds good... can you explain how you do your particular form of chi sao that makes it transferable to real-world fighting?
---------------------------------------------
Do you really mean real world fighting? Or simulation of fighting- sparring.? The former includes the real possibility of death. The latter- submission, knockout, crying uncle, maybe a broken nose,
a cut or concussion.

Again - repeating myself--- chi sao is NOT a drill- though what you have seen maybe. It is a laboratory of timing dvelopment and what to do in seeking, breaking, retaining, closing and manipulating contact in many kinds of motion and movement- sitting, standing, walking, moving, turning, under varying levels of pressure with indivisuals- with more than one individual.

BTW- given your screen name-the best knife fighters I have known are from the northern part of my home state and beyond- the Gurkhas-they are for real-- though they dont do videos for KFO or skeptics!!

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by Knifefighter


The peak performances in any physical activity (especially fighting) that requires reflexive ability, stamina, strength, power, endurance will occur by those in their 20's to early 30's. WC practioners are no exception to the laws of human physiology.
No exceptions in humaness, but age isn't so much a deterrent in an internal art. There are a few "old" (50-70+ years old) guys in Wing Chun who could shut you down before you start. (Disclaimer: You meaning the generic "you.")

Regards,

[WCis4me]

Originally posted by John Weiland

No exceptions in humaness, but age isn't so much a deterrent in an internal art. There are a few "old" (50-70+ years old) guys in Wing Chun who could shut you down before you start. (Disclaimer: You meaning the generic "you.")

Regards,

That is absolutely true. I can think of two that I have actual personal knowledge of. Imagine if everyone could think of two they know of. Would add up to quite a few.

Regards,
Vicky

[Knifefighter]

So, you are saying that studying an internal art somehow allows someone to bypass the physiological changes that happen in all physical activities as a result of age?

[KenWingJitsu]

Uh...chi-sao IS a drill. It's learning drill full of principles and techniques that follow priciples as well as a guide to 'rooted' (sic I hate that word) structure. That's it.

After learning it, you need to take it out of that context and apply it to a realistic scenario. have someone attack you without prior contact...then you're on the right track...