View Full Version : What would you do? REAL WORLD Scenerio for real world fighters, but with a twist.
rogue
06-14-2003, 04:24 PM
Here's one I don't think has ever been addressed and one we're more likely to come across. I'll avoid how the two people got into it but the person with advantage in the situation is very aggressive, not in their right mind because of rage, alchohol or whatever, and they will try to cause you harm when you get involved.
The scenerio:
Two people are in a very bad fight or argument and it goes to the ground with one person flat on their back with the other in the mount choking and or beating the other senseless. You must stop this without hurting the person getting the beating, so how do you remove the person on top?
Oh and the twist is this, the person on top is someone that you don't want to harm since they're a close friend, brother, relative or spouse. You can't leave the scene, there are witnesses that will tell the police what you did and a security camera for kicks.
TonyM.
06-14-2003, 04:45 PM
Choke hold and a lecture.
Former castleva
06-14-2003, 04:59 PM
Boot.
Shooter
06-14-2003, 05:09 PM
The BJM Body-check...a proven, non-injurious intervention in lots of one-sided GnPs. :D
No_Know
06-14-2003, 06:36 PM
Scoop the on-topper under the arms from the front. Walking forward until they are off balanced or standing.
Chang Style Novice
06-14-2003, 06:59 PM
Kiss of the Dragon:rolleyes:
No, full nelson and a hoist up would probably suffice.
no, if he's gone that far, friend or not, he needs some sort of smackdown. a controlled shot to the side of the neck will stun him perty good.
no one is exempt from a smack down if they make too much of an azz of themselves.
rogue
06-14-2003, 07:30 PM
Shooter what's "The BJM Body-check"?
I'm tonights dungeon master so remember that it can't look like you're assaulting the guy and he's going to turn on you as soon as you remove him. :)
Royal Dragon
06-14-2003, 07:33 PM
Kick him in the head and knock him out cold asap. If the camera's on, you can use it as evidence that you were protecting the guy on the bottom from being strangled to death.
Water Dragon
06-14-2003, 07:46 PM
TonyM is correct. Pull him off with a rear naked and then tell him to chill out. Of course, knowing me, I'd probably just let my friend beat the hel.l out him.
PHILBERT
06-14-2003, 07:50 PM
Im with Oso, he goes too far Id punch/kick him hard enough to get him to stop.
sn0w8lade
06-14-2003, 10:03 PM
I'd go with a rear naked an stern words. Keepin him there til he'd chilled out :D
Yung Apprentice
06-14-2003, 10:50 PM
Usually in situations like that, the simplest of techs are the most usefull. I would tackle him, and try to keep him from getting back to the beatee or from hitting me, by pinning him down, and trying to talk him down. By the time he gets loose, he probably would have used up a lot of energy trying to get free from me, in turn calming him down.
Shooter
06-14-2003, 11:29 PM
Rogue, 'BJM Body-check' = Big John's signature move when he stops the GnP.
Easy enough to go knee-on from the hit and talk some sense into Uncle Fu(kup. Or just hold positional pressure until he pukes and/or passes out.
SevenStar
06-15-2003, 02:07 AM
I'd use a dim mak technique to render him unconscious.
:D
seriously, the rear naked is a good option.
and while you are sitting there in the rear naked (he-he) waiting for your buddy to chill out, the guy he was commencing to choke/punch out gets up really ****ed off. or another random from the crowd decides it's time to jump in.
in situations like that you are already in a multi-man whether one of them is your buddy or not. full on grappling leaves you vulnerable to that second attacker. I screwed up several times my first couple of years as a bouncer by going to a grapple and either got myself hit or the guy I was submitting got hit.
i don't ever back anyone up untill I know their motivations. I don't know about you guys but most of my friends can be big as sholes when they want to be. I don't excuse alcohol or drugs, if you can't handle them don't do 'em.
punch/kick to stun your buddy...pull him off by the hair and toss him in a corner...keep good positioning between him, the other dude (wife, girlfriend, hooker...whatever) and the crowd. The lecture can wait till you get his sorry ass home.
Kristoffer
06-15-2003, 07:42 AM
I'm glad I'm not 'friend's with any of you guys. You'd honestly kick your friend in the head? Then you'r a bad friend :D No, but seriously, a full nelson dragging him off the guy would be easy and 'non-hurting'.
rogue
06-15-2003, 03:34 PM
Where the heck is Ben Gash and Gene Ching? So far I'm surprised that SevenStar is the only one to bring up the dim mak option on the forum, if only with tongue in cheek. What about pressure points?
Remember the premise is not to hurt or cause injury to the person. OK it's no longer a friend but your wife or girlfriend going code red on a rival. :cool:
what about the other person?
it's a multi-man situation. tieing yourself up with a grapple, which I will include maintianing some sort of pressure point control as grappling, will not necessarily stop everyone from being hurt further.
rogue
06-15-2003, 03:57 PM
Oso, the other person is pretty much out of it and not much of a threat. The techniques have to be fast because it is a potential multiple situation. Also your friend will sue you if you hurt him too badly. :p
Laughing Cow
06-15-2003, 04:44 PM
I have to agree with TonyM and Kristoffer.
The situation changes drastially when a friend or realtive is involved and thus different measures need to be taken.
In a situation more than most others you need to re-affirm your authority, rather than relying on punching and kicking skills.
Pull the guy off, tell him to cool it or you have to do things both will regret later on.
Simplay laying into your buddy or relatives will just cause hassles and bad feelings for a loooong time. and not just between you and him but most likely involve many of your friends and relatives.
maybe a sign of the times that many don't value their friends and relatives that highly anymore.
Cheers.
No_Know
06-15-2003, 05:28 PM
"What about pressure points?
Remember the premise is not to hurt or cause injury to the person."
Peolpe here might not Know of the releases or healings for the Dim Mak, even pressure point strikes. There-by Causing damage (even irreparable damage) .
this is kind of a silly scenario.
yes, if you don't have to worry about the other person counter attacking then you can choke. when I was a bouncer it was the preferred method for subduing someone quickly. but as I learned, you made sure you had your back covered by someone else.
Samurai Jack
06-15-2003, 07:17 PM
Drag friend off with opening move to Irimi Nage. Switch to Nikkyo, which is briefly painful but not necessarily damaging, and pin friend to the ground. Talk him/her out of rage while holding friend.
Serpent
06-15-2003, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by rogue
Remember the premise is not to hurt or cause injury to the person. OK it's no longer a friend but your wife or girlfriend going code red on a rival. :cool:
Screw that. Shoot the b!tch. Plenty more fish in the sea.
Water Dragon
06-16-2003, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by Oso
and while you are sitting there in the rear naked (he-he) waiting for your buddy to chill out, the guy he was commencing to choke/punch out gets up really ****ed off. or another random from the crowd decides it's time to jump in.
Oso, you don't necesarily have to be on the ground to do a rear naked. My all time favorite techniqe is to get behind the guy, slap on a rear naked and pull back so that his feet are off the ground and his body is "resting" on my hip bone. Then you can shake him like a pit bull as you choke him. The nice thing about having his feet off the ground is that you can move him around pretty much at will. If you think anyone's gonna come at you, just keep the Chokee between you and him. That'll keep you safe for the 10 seconds or so it will take to make him go night-night and $hit all over himself.
WD, good point. I have done that very thing before. I don't think I was being absolutely literal with 'sitting there'
Still, with both hands tied up, unless you are choking w/ one arm, you are in a handicapped position.
I've just tried to break up way too many fights, incorrectly for a couple of years, to have my first inclination be a grapple or choke IF I am the only one doing the breaking up.
Water Dragon
06-16-2003, 02:56 PM
But Oso, choking people is so much fun!
oh, I agree.
I just learned not to let myself get tangled up in a choke or other grapple/chin no in a multi-man sit. One of those bruises to my ribs took weeks to clear out.
the original sit had witnesses. to me that means a crowd and some wise-ass will decide to jump in just for kicks. my assumption will always be that any and every one will decide to pile on.
plus, I don't have any compunctions about hitting someone I know, especially if they have let alcohol or drugs affect their reasoning.
and hitting people is so much fun:p
Water Dragon
06-16-2003, 03:12 PM
Yeah, but you can't make someone $hit themselves by punching their lights out.
rubthebuddha
06-16-2003, 03:19 PM
oso's right -- hitting people is fun.
besides, so you clock your buddy and he's mad at you when he wakes up. that's a lot worse than extended jailtime for whatever they charge him with.
some folks have talked about having someone get your back, but how about having someone watch your front? as soon as you tie yourself to your buddy, that leaves the other guy the chance, if he's still conscious, to do some of his own damage.
i prefer the idea of a quick shot to somewhere tender like the ribs -- just enough contact to wake him up -- and grabbing the ******* by his belt and shirt and tossing him off. i've done it before, and it worked dandy, except i accidentally tossed my buddy into a pile of dookie (fight in the backyard of a party -- owners had dogs). the dookie upset my buddy more than the ribshot.
red5angel
06-16-2003, 03:22 PM
Rogue, first of all you can nver guarentee the guy getting choked isn't going to jump up, he might just need to get a few breaths then he is all over you and the guy you are holding.
If I am by myself I think I would just jump on the guy on the top and pin him to the guy on the bottom, that way they can't do any real damage and it might give them a moment or two to calm down. If I am with someone I can go high with the full nelson and the other guy can jump on the dude on the ground until things cool off.
However assuming your guy on the ground is "out of it" then it shouldn't be much of an issue, a full nelson should do the trick, on anyone, not just freinds and relatives, if for some reason he gets out of it then I guess that depends on what he is going to do.
Chang Style Novice
06-16-2003, 03:30 PM
Just to nitpick about the multiple interference scenario, in the original statement, it says "YOU MUST" which suggests to me you are the only person present, or perhaps the only person present with the will/ability to break things up. In other words, the way it was phrased leads me to believe you won't have persons #3, #4, and so on to deal with. Just person #1 getting pounded, and person #2 you dearly beloved who is committing aggravated assault.
norther practitioner
06-16-2003, 03:36 PM
No one has mentioned letting them beat the crap out of this person then holding it over there head and extorting money out of them... Just figured you guys were looking for more scenerios....
:D
I like the rear choke for stuff like this I guess. Gives you good control if your back is secure. Your front you can use chokee as protection, or after they disengage, throw them to the side so to speak and deal with the other person.
rubthebuddha
06-16-2003, 03:46 PM
as always, circumstances should make your action. if the person underneath is a wee little weakling and not much threat, you worry less about them. if they're hyoooge and plenty conscious, you change your response to one more of multiple threats. don't be hesitant to be rough with your buddies. it'll be better than jailtime, and much better than showering in prison.
Black Jack
06-16-2003, 04:57 PM
Kicking your buddy in the head is a bit psycho and uncalled for.
Rear naked is my vote but it does not have to be that technique in specific. You can just always use brute strength and grab him around the neck or under the armpits and haul his ass up. My main goal is to get us both out of their so he does not get busted by the cops or get us stomped by this joe's friends.
Yung Apprentice
06-16-2003, 06:15 PM
Yeah, kickin your friend in the head, will just start him on you. I think a tackle is enough to get him (or her) off of the person getting their head beat in. It's not as strong and uncalled as a kick to the head, but it's stronger then just tapping them on the shoulder, telling them to stop.
Yeah, but you can't make someone $hit themselves by punching their lights out.
bet me:D c'mon, you know you can.
Just to nitpick about the multiple interference scenario, in the original statement, it says "YOU MUST" which suggests to me you are the only person present, or perhaps the only person present with the will/ability to break things up. In other words, the way it was phrased leads me to believe you won't have persons #3, #4, and so on to deal with. Just person #1 getting pounded, and person #2 you dearly beloved who is committing aggravated assault.
wellll, I didn't find the original scenario to be very realistic. You can't count on the chicken**** in the crowd from deciding he would sneak you because he'd never do it to your face.
Kicking your buddy in the head is a bit psycho and uncalled for.
I'm not saying beat the crap out of him. You can, and/or should, hit with control. Especially here, where you have the drop on them and can time the hit well.
rogue
06-16-2003, 09:07 PM
wellll, I didn't find the original scenario to be very realistic. I don't care what you find, it's my scenerio not yours.:p :D Chang has it right.
What are the dangers of performing the rear naked choke? Also the person is in a rage and will turn on you if they're not out.
WinterPalm
06-16-2003, 09:46 PM
I want to know, hypothetically, who the guy on the ground is in relation to me. Do I like him as well, because if he's a jerk and the camera is recording anyway, I don't think I'd stop the guy. He's on camera commiting assault I suppose...
TheGhostDog
06-16-2003, 10:11 PM
Rear-naked choke.
Should only take a few seconds to put him unconscious.
If you kick someone in the head they could die if you hit them wrong or too hard, or hit their head on the ground and die. If they want they can then get you charged with assault with a deadly weapon - seriously.
A choke hurts no-one.
i HAVE been in this scenario and don't like any sort of grapple as an option...got me pegged a couple of times...so I don't go there anymore...
Black Jack
06-17-2003, 06:45 AM
With friends like some of you guys who needs enemy's. Kicking your bud in the head is way off. You could kill the guy.
Strap a choke or body hold on him and control.
Mr Punch
06-17-2003, 07:39 AM
Shoot the video camera or Black Jack. Then everyone will stop what they're doing/run screaming out of the bar = no worries.
:D
Actually, I like Red5's idea, except I'm a scrawny bugger, so if dive on them they're both just gonna pound the living jesus h out of me... oh well, s'all good fun.
Actually had to pull one of my best friends off my bro one day (close call, but my bud was taking objection to my bro not helping pull me off a bouncer earlier... maaan was that a nite...:eek: :o ).
Just half knelt, got him in a headlock then pulled up. My bro was still hitting him so I pushed with the edge of my hands into both of their throats until they had to let go (wound up with my bud being on his back too) cos the fight had pretty much gone out of them by then. Nobody particularly injured (coupla bruises on the neck).
Not a glorious tale. But those were some kinda days...!
Shaolin-Do
06-17-2003, 07:45 AM
"wellll, I didn't find the original scenario to be very realistic"
Ive personally had this happen a few times. Cross face chicken wings work good, if they get snippy just pull them over so they are upside down and still in the hold. works great. (gotta trap their legs too)
When dude #1 is pounding dude #2, you have time to sit and look and decide what hold will work best. If dude #1 is huge, a good side kick to the shoulder can move people hella far hella fast, not so much snap but more of a push. But then dude #1 is prolly wanna fight, but luckily he is already wore out from whoopin dude #2, so dude #3 (me) handles dude #1 like a toy.
:)
"No one who makes too much an azz out of themselves is exempt from a beating."
bahaha.
oso... funny man.
:)
***delete****
oh, nevermind, I hate repeating myself this many times.
SD, I've stopped hanging with people if they showed their azz too many times, and especially if they couldn't/wouldn't stay out of fights.
Judge Pen
06-17-2003, 10:45 AM
What about lifting up the guy on top under his ears? An old police come-a-long technique that is pretty painful. If that doesn't work then kick him in the head.
Black Jack
06-17-2003, 11:16 AM
Oso,
It was royal dragon that mentioned kicking the guy in the head. That was the statement I was in reference to.
oh, missed that and I looked back to see where everyone got that idea from...I kept talking about controlled striking...
Former castleva
06-17-2003, 01:20 PM
The first time I posted,I did not really notice what the thread was really about (the situation includes your buddy)
Then I guess I´d go with something along the lines of Judge Pen,that and come-along,pressure point manipulation whether it puts his lights off or not.But considering that he´s actually,technically,killing this person,kidney taps and controlled neck/head cranks might come to question.
Chang Style Novice
06-17-2003, 01:38 PM
Oso, you said and I quote
a controlled shot to the side of the neck will stun him perty good.
So obviously what you meant was you'd pummell him relentlessly with a tire iron until no fewer than 5 cops dragged you offa him, and even then you'd probably take out a couple of the pigs first.
So obviously what you meant was you'd pummell him relentlessly with a tire iron until no fewer than 5 cops dragged you offa him, and even then you'd probably take out a couple of the pigs first.
dang straight, that's exactly what I meant.
and they better bring the swat team or whatever, regular beat cops couldn't handle me.
Shaolin-Do
06-17-2003, 01:49 PM
I know someone who is actually serving time in jail right now, because when police came to bust him, He decided he didnt want to go to jail and put 2 beer cans in socks, and took out 4 cops. Didnt kill anyone, but dished out a couple concussions. Crazy *******.
ok, I was officially joking about that:rolleyes:
Chang Style Novice
06-17-2003, 02:11 PM
Suicide by cop is NOT how I plan to go out...
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