Lennox v. Vitali

[Spark]

Anyone watching this fight Saturday?

I think it's a pretty obvious outcome, but some might disagree.

Lewis KO5 IMO.

Bring on RJJ HAHAHA

[chen zhen]

If it is shown in my country, I might watch it. i vote on Lennox, that's the only one I know.

[Losttrak]

I am watching and I think Lennox needs to be de-throned....

[Yung Apprentice]

Lennox is going to win, but Vitali would beat him under normal circumstances.

If anyone has followed boxing recently, Lennox was supposed to fight Vitali. He chickened out, and decided to fight Kirk Johnson. Three and a half weeks before their fight, Kirk Johnson tears a muscle, and can no longer fight on that day. They go back to Vitali, who now has three weeks to get himself into boxing condition. Granted the guy always is doing some kind of conditioning, but when they are fighting, especially for a title, they step it up another notch, to get themselves prepared to fight. Had he been given more time to train, and become better prepared, I think he would knock that brit on his @$$ anyday. But now, I think he's just going to give Lennox a run for his money, but wind up getting beat by desicion.

BTW, Lennox is a dirty fighter, always resting his hand on the foreheads of smaller fighters, like a bully does to a nerd. I wonder how it'll be now that he will be the smaller man. I think Vitali is 6'7" and Lennox is 6'5".

[Spark]

Originally posted by Yung Apprentice
Lennox is going to win, but Vitali would beat him under normal circumstances.

If anyone has followed boxing recently, Lennox was supposed to fight Vitali. He chickened out, and decided to fight Kirk Johnson. Three and a half weeks before their fight, Kirk Johnson tears a muscle, and can no longer fight on that day. They go back to Vitali, who now has three weeks to get himself into boxing condition. Granted the guy always is doing some kind of conditioning, but when they are fighting, especially for a title, they step it up another notch, to get themselves prepared to fight. Had he been given more time to train, and become better prepared, I think he would knock that brit on his @$$ anyday. But now, I think he's just going to give Lennox a run for his money, but wind up getting beat by desicion.

BTW, Lennox is a dirty fighter, always resting his hand on the foreheads of smaller fighters, like a bully does to a nerd. I wonder how it'll be now that he will be the smaller man. I think Vitali is 6'7" and Lennox is 6'5".

Lennox never chickened out. He saw in Vitali the same thing that was seen in his bro Wladimir - that he was/is nothing more than hype, and when put against REAL opposition, he gets whooped (like wlad did against a semi-pro boxer who is a golfer - and Wlad is the better boxer of the two). Also Vitali had been training for 6 weeks already when he took the fight because he had a match the same night.
So in reality, both Vitali and Lennox are on the same footing on this fight. There are no excuses for the outcome.

Lennox will KO Vitali, but concensus seems to be that Vitali has a punchers chance, which apparently every Lewis opponent is given before he KTFOs them.

[Yung Apprentice]

So let me get this straight. Because Vitali's brother gets K'O ed, your going to hold that against Vitali???? Do you know anything about boxing???? Where the heck is the logic in that?

Second, define "REAL" opposition. I hope you don't consider Kirk Johnson more of a "REAL OPPOSITION" then Vitali. Well, you might, after all he is from your country.

Third, Vitali has not trained for six straight weeks, because if you had been following boxing at all, he was scratched from the undercard of the Johnson/Lewis fight.

Fourth, even if he had been training for six straight weeks, he would be training for a different fighter. Preparing himself for someone else. Everyone knows, that you prepare differently for a champion, and a title bout, because you must work yourself harder then you have ever done in your life, and on top of that preparing for a bigger, more experienced guy, and a southpaw at that, is a lot different then preparing yourself for a tune up fight.

So no, they are not on the same footing.

BTW, Wladamir is the better boxer, but he obviously underestimated his opponent. He was knocked out, but if you recall, Lennox was k'o ed twice, by Hasim Rahman, and Oliver McCall. I don't care what you say, those guys are not that good, or considered "REAL OPPOSITIONS".

[Spark]

Originally posted by Yung Apprentice
So let me get this straight. Because Vitali's brother gets K'O ed, your going to hold that against Vitali???? Do you know anything about boxing???? Where the heck is the logic in that?

*** Maybe if you knew how to follow logic you would have understood. Ask anyone who follows boxing, any critic, any analyst, which Klit it the better boxer 99% will say Wlad. Vitali has one tool, the right hand. Wlad has a right overhand, a left hook and a great jab, as well as he is more fluid and over the last 2 years has fought better opposition and dominated fighters in ways they never had been. That being said, he goes and fights a semi pro boxer, on the verge of being a pro golfer and is starched in 2 rounds. Ok, here's the logic, are you ready? So if Wlad is the better boxer, and is wiped out by a fighter who is nowhere near top ten, and had 3 fights in almost 6 years, how is Vitali going to stand any chance against Lewis who is regarded as the best HW in the world.

Second, define "REAL" opposition. I hope you don't consider Kirk Johnson more of a "REAL OPPOSITION" then Vitali. Well, you might, after all he is from your country.

*** I was referring to Vitali facing real opposition. Other than Larry Donald. The guy hasn't been in with anyone in the top 10 other than Chris Byrd.

Third, Vitali has not trained for six straight weeks, because if you had been following boxing at all, he was scratched from the undercard of the Johnson/Lewis fight.

*** Huh? Ok, so follow along here ... Vitali was to fight Cedric Boswell on the undercard. Johnson tears pectoral muscle. Lewis asks Vitali to fight him instead of Boswell and Vitali agrees. What's the issue here? You're saying Vitali wasn't training for the Boswell fight? Vitali doesn't seem to think so. From BoxingTalk:

Question: Would you say you are in your best condition ever for this fight?

Klitschko: I am in the best condition because I was already training for a fight, and I have been waiting for this fight for a long time. I have been waiting for this fight for almost three years. I am really prepared, and I really want this fight. I am very excited and I want to give me best.

Fourth, even if he had been training for six straight weeks, he would be training for a different fighter. Preparing himself for someone else. Everyone knows, that you prepare differently for a champion, and a title bout, because you must work yourself harder then you have ever done in your life, and on top of that preparing for a bigger, more experienced guy, and a southpaw at that, is a lot different then preparing yourself for a tune up fight.

*** Wow. YOu ask me if I follow boxing? Lennox Lewis isn't a southpaw.

So no, they are not on the same footing.

*** You're right. Lennox is 10X the fighter Vitali will ever be.

[Merryprankster]

I believe that Lewis is one of the most underrated boxers of all times.

Under normal circumstances, I give the win to Lewis. Klitschko can't fight going backwards and doesn't create angles that well. He will have a hard time fighting this way against Lewis.

Unfortunately, I believe Lennox weighed in at 258. This is heavy for him and tells me that he has not been training as hard as he should. Klitschko will win if this is the case.

However, I have also heard he weighed in at 252. If that's the case, it goes to Lewis.

[Spark]

Haha actually I think it's officially 256. So maybe it'll be a draw? :p

Here's the way I look into the weight. The last time Lewis came in with a high weight was in his first fight against Rahman. And he got dropped. However, he was shooting Ocean's 11, showed up in SA something like 2 days before the fight and was obviously completely unprepared.

Despite being 256, Lewis has been training for almost 8 weeks now. Reports out of his camp were positive from all analysts. I don't think weight should be an issue, but whether or not he's prepared and focused to fight Vitali, and not Roy Jones.

[BAI HE]

Lewis will stop Vitali. It may be faster than 5 rds though.
I think Lennox will go right after him and pressure him
to death.

[Spark]

Pete
That was a great post
You're such a Lewis nuthugger though
If you're going to contribute to my boxing threads please be more objective


:D

[BAI HE]

You no I'm no LL fan, but I have to give him his
props. He's been a new man since he got the wake up call from Rahman. It reminds me of when Hagler got in his "Search and Desroy" mode.

With Ibeabuchi in jail, I don't see any credible fights left for him out there. Chris Byrd? Why bother?

I think Lewis is pretty underated. I feel bad for him, first Bowe
ducks him (not sure why, I think a prime Bowe stops him).
Every big fight Lewis has had has been a disaster.

Tua does nothing, Akinwande
want's to slow dance all night and McCall wins best actress for his night in the ring. So where is Lewis's defining fight? KLITSHKO!
And LL will make it count.

Oh, and don't even mention Tyson to me. That guy is crazy a few months before a fight and remarkably sane the rest of the time. He's a sideshow not a fighter and hasn't been for awhile.

BTW, the guy who said Lennox was a dirty fighter, should check the banana he's using for a head, because it sounds like it's rotting. Lewis is many things, dirty isn't one of them. When you thing dirty, think Holyfield.

[Yung Apprentice]

Didn't Lennox lose when he came in weighing the second heaviest weight against Rahman, that was the first fight, right? Or was it the second?



Yeah, I messed up on a couple points in my post. But looking at Klitchko, I just don't think he's ready for Lewis. I think he's underestimating him. I think either Klitchko can beat him, but I think this one is underestimating him. But I really dislike Lennox, after meeting him three times. Twice he wouldn't so much as look in my direction. Surprisingly Tyson was nicer the many times I met him.

[Spark]

BAI HE

haha i'm just messin you know it. I think people just hate Lennox cuz he's not American. People still talk about Bowe like he was something great and what did that guy ever do?

YUNG - I think for Rahman Lewis came in at 253. However, when he fought Tua, he was at 252 and that was a dominating (albeit boring) performance. I'm sure he's been over 250 other than these three times.

I dont' like Lennox as much as BAI HE, but I have to give Vitali at least the 'punchers' chance, however, all convential wisdom points to Lewis handling him easily.

[BAI HE]

Tyson is surprisingly sane and a pretty nice guy.
Like Madonna uses sex to sell, Mike uses crazy.

A good friend of mine who trains pro's told
me that a loy of guys get in the ring w/ Lewis
not realizing how hard he hits. They get stung a few times
and then get a case of the huggies.

Vitali will fare better then Grant, but i just don't
think he's faced anyone as powerful and confident as Lewis is right now.

I believe he has a puncher's chance, but he's
going to to have to stay off Lewis's jab and
try to negate the big right. If he's sees Lewis loading
up on it, he needs to fire first, like Douglas did to Tyson,
smother it, or step left and counter to the body.

[Yung Apprentice]

Yeah, Tyson is a nice guy thru my experience. The first time I met him, my friend who is a boxer and trying to become pro, was at a boxing gym. Tyson came in and started working out. The guy who owns the gym introduced us to him. Then, Tyson took time out of his workouts, to give my friend a few pointers. Wasn't a long time, maybe 10 minutes, but the fact that he took time out HIS workout, to help some no name he never met before, I thought was commendable. Most big names like that, wouldn't do that.

My friend got to know Tyson, and he invited us to a party at his house, which was a big party, and a good one too. Very hospitable host.

Also, I used to work at the airport, and he used to come in all the time. He and his crew would almost always ring, but no matter how long it took to check them, they were always understanding and patient. I remember Lennox coming in, and telling me I shouldn't have to check him because he's "Lennox Lewis". Very rude guy.

Holyfield was alright when I met him. Foreman is class act, he's always smiling like he does on t.v. Nice guy. And Johhny Tapia is a very cool guy as well.



Bai He- I agree with your assessment.

[Merryprankster]

You heard it from me (insert gloat here)

Yes, I know Lewis won, but it's kinda like the way that Mat Lindland has a loss on his record--Matt knocked him self out on a throw. Lewis wins by cut--AND he was getting the **** kicked out of him--not a very dominating win.

I knew Lewis would come in fat and sloppy. He looked awful.

[Yung Apprentice]

Yeah, he did. And I hate how he handled the interviews afterward. The guy is an a$$h0le. "You would have seen in the later rounds, I would have knocked him out". Maybe, maybe not. But from what I was seeing, outside of Vitali's cut (which did look pretty bad) Lennox was getting wooped. I felt bad for Vitali. Everyone was saying how he had no heart, the guy wanted to continue even with half of his eyebrow split in half and slumping over his eye. And Lennox was fighting dirty. I'm pretty sure he knew he was losing, and probably was going to lose. If you noticed after Vitali had his gash, the cutman did a very good job of closing it up. But when Lewis was holding, I noticed he would rub the gash with the side of his glove, to get it bleeding again.

I lost even more respect for Lewis afterwards. He said he would have a rematch, if the money was right. But Vitali isn't a money maker, so I don't know if it'll happen.

I also noticed, when Vitali first came to the ring, the majority of people were booing him, and cheering for Lewis. It was mostly a pro-Lewis crowd. But after the fight, people were cheering for Vitali, and booing Lewis. I thought that was cool. Vitali gained their respect. (he already had mine)

I don't dispute, however, the doctor stopping the fight. The gash looked bad, and was bleeding quite a bit. But the desicion to stop the fight could be argued. It didn't look like it was effecting Vitali's preformance, and I don't know if it was bad enough to make them fear for his safety.

One question though. If a fight is stopped after a certain round, don't they go to the scorecards???? I thought they did. Or was their some sort of stipulation about that, since it was a title bout? Cause had they had gone to the scorecards, Vitali would have won. They said he was leading by two or three rounds on all three judge's scorecards. Usually they go to the scorecard if the fight is stopped after the fourth or sixth round, right? In both cases they would have had to got to the scorecards. Even if they had stopped the fight for Vitali.


Oh well. It was a very interesting fight. Had a lot of action, which is weird, because Lennox's fights, can often be boreing. But they were both slugging it out.

[Laughing Cow]

All 3 ringside judges had Klitscho winning 58-56.

Paul Wallace(referee) stopped the fight due to the eye-lid hanging low and obscuring Klitschko's vision so that he had to move his head to see the judge and thus he ruled him unable to continue and awarded a TKO to Lennox.

Apparently Klitschko was in better shape and fighting better than lennox who was considered overweight and past his prime.

Atleast that is what the newspaper is saying.
:D

[Yung Apprentice]

Yeah, thats what the paper here wrote too. I don't know though. I think the DOC may have been exaggerating a bit. Vitali looked like he was able to go on, but man that gash did look ugly. I guess it was the correct thing to do, even though I didn't like it very much.

I'm still curious though about that rule of going to the cards.

[BAI HE]

Lewis is a disgrace. Serves me right for backing him.
To ciome into a championship fight in that kind
of shape? ****.

Props to Vitali though, good heart. He surprised me.

[Spark]

The rule is that if the cut is caused by an accidental headbutt or something of the sort, it goes to the scorecards ala Ward v. Leija

But if the cut was from punches, therefore results in a TKO.

BAI HE - you're such a fairweather Lewis Fan.

[BAI HE]

"But if the cut was from punches, therefore results in a TKO."

i'M STILL APPALLED!!!!
Especially after the fight! That Limey ***** had not one
good thing to say about his opponent. No class Bro'.

I'm done nut huggin'

[Spark]

Originally posted by BAI HE
"But if the cut was from punches, therefore results in a TKO."

i'M STILL APPALLED!!!!
Especially after the fight! That Limey ***** had not one
good thing to say about his opponent. No class Bro'.

I'm done nut huggin'

Why are you appalled? It was a legitimate win within the confines of the sport. How many times has a fighter seen his opponent's eye swell and continue to work it until is was shut and thus gaining a TKO victory.

I think most people are appalled that Lewis looked like such a slob, and I'm one of them. But on the flip side, Vitali who obviously was in better shape, couldn't take this 'slob' out who was on his 'C' game at best, who still managed to **** Vitali up. That says something to me.

In terms of Lewis' comments. It's all strategy man. You don't admit that your opponent had you, especially when there is the possibility of a rematch. Imaging the confidence Vitali would have going into that knowing he hurt Lennox and that he had him gassed! Admitting that would be fatal. I know that he should have shown more class, but I say we give him a break. Funny how Ali did it and we all laugh, but Lewis does it and he's the biggest Fooking Arswipe Preek on the planet.

I give you one week and you'll be back on Lewis' nuts HAHAHA

[Kempo Guy]

I heard Klitchko needed over 60 stitches after the fight. Ouch!:eek:

I look forward to a rematch... or perhaps a fight between Lewis and Wladimir Klitchko... That is if he ever recovers mentally from the Sanders fight.

KG

[BAI HE]

You know I'm no fan of the fat man division spark
Although I'd like to see Lennox v. a "focused" Tua.


I'm waiting for Hop and Lights out to trade 'em.
It'll be like a dream come true.

[Merryprankster]

Ah, but see, Ali did his with STYLE. It was so over the top, it was funny. It's the same reason Tank Abbot was funny and Phil Baroni is a punk. A dangerous punk, but a punk nonetheless.

Let's not be too hasty with Vladimir--when the guys are this big, any punch can be the last. We trade the relative inactivity of these big lugs for the possibility of a come from behind win at any moment.

As for Vitali, I think Spark has overstated the case. I have two comments:

1. Lennox Lewis is a rhythm fighter. When his rhythm is interrupted, he tends to look awkward, regardless of conditioning level. Vitali, being as tall as he is is hard to develop that rhythm on because he fights tall too--Lennox frequently uses a sort of hand out on the guy's head turning away type motion to defend because most guys can't do anything about it--he's too far away. Not Vitali. He tried that a few times on Vitali and Vitali popped him for it. I remember one where he got jabbed 4 times in a row!

2. On top of the above, Vitali makes EVERYBODY look awkward. He may "move like a piece fo construction equipment," but he tends to make everybody who fights him look like this too. I think he's a broken rhythm guy who looks rough and unpolished--but the trick is that everybody who fights him looks this way too! This may be hard for Lennox to fight.

I predict the rematch will be a war. While a cut is a legitimate win, it's not a very satisfying one and doesn't answer many questions.

[Yung Apprentice]

I agree.

I hate the fact that Lewis WAS talking mess. It's one thing to deny being in trouble, but it's another to say "Oh yeah, I was going to knock him out anyways". What fight was he talking about? Cuz the one I was watching, it looked like he was on the brink of being KO'ed.

Vitali proved a lot.He was on the brink of dethroning the champion, and I think it's sad that it was taken away from him. Especially after the fact everyone was saying how he has no heart, that he probably has a weak chin, which of course he disproved each assumption.


"Vitali who obviously was in better shape, couldn't take this 'slob' out who was on his 'C' game at best, who still managed to **** Vitali up. That says something to me"

Yeah, it says something to me too. that Lewis didn't think enough of the title, his opponent, or the fans to come into the ring in shape.

I can't believe it. I mean this was a championship fight. Not some silver gloves bout. You have two of the biggest boxers in the ring together, smashing on each other, of course someone is going to get cut. It was a war.


Chris Byrd said" Lewis was garbage, and klitchko was the garbage picker upper"

Today in the newspaper, a journalist wrote,

" A championship fight was stopped because of a cut? A heavyweight brawl was stopped because of a bloody eye? Lennox Lewis, exhausted and reeling, and losing on all cards, is still champion? None of it made sense."

The doc may have saved Vitali's face, but he saved Lewis's title.

Rocky Marciano would be turning in his grave.

[Merryprankster]

The Doc may have saved Vitali's career. A cut that bad, if it doesn't heal right, will leave lots of scar tissue. Scar tissue tears. Tears=more really bad cuts.

[Spark]

Originally posted by Yung Apprentice

"Vitali who obviously was in better shape, couldn't take this 'slob' out who was on his 'C' game at best, who still managed to **** Vitali up. That says something to me"

Yeah, it says something to me too. that Lewis didn't think enough of the title, his opponent, or the fans to come into the ring in shape.


One last comment on this and it's that I think despite how poor Lewis looked, let's not forget that once Johnson pulled out, Lewis could have said forget it, Klit can wait until December. But they BOTH (I like to think I'm not that biased!) took the fight on almost no notice and zero preparation for one another. And let's be honest, 4-2 isn't exactly blowing your opponent away especially when there's still 6 rounds to go and heavy shots were still being landed. I'm just saying that a Klit win wasn't inevitable, the fight was still up for grabs. I know people think that cut was no big deal, but if that was what his face looked like through the first half, imagine what it would look like after the second half.

Anyhow, I think it was a close fight and there should be a rematch, Lewis will win (cuz he will actually train this time haha) and retire hopefully.

BAI HE - Toney Hopkins will be a dream come true. I can't think of a more intense matchup ... maybe Hagler Hearns ... man.

[Kempo Guy]

If that's the case, Lewis must not have taken Johnson too seriously.... since there was only 2 weeks notice of change.

KG

[Spark]

I was reading a report from a British journalist who was at Lewis' workouts just before the fight with Johnson fell through, and he was saying the Lewis he saw in the ring (physically) was not the same fighter he saw 2 weeks prior, and couldn't believe what had happened to him over such a short period of time.

[Yung Apprentice]

Yeah I heard those reports as well. I think it's a load of CR@P. I don't think there is anyway a fighter could llok that bad, after two weeks. Heck, as out of shape as I am, I couldn't do that in two weeks. You even said it yourself, Klitchko had as much time to train as Lewis, heck Lewis MIGHT have had more.(maybe) And he still came in to the ring looking like that. Which is why I still believe

"Lewis didn't think enough of the title, his opponent, or the fans to come into the ring in shape."


I will admit, I am a bit biased when it comes to people I don't like.(Lewis) But, where's the credit to Klitchko? I thought he was a weak boxer, how he would get "wooped", that he has a WEAK CHIN, and no HEART.

I swear, some of yall are getting a little to hung up on guys you don't know. You won't see me getting offended when someone is dissing a boxer I like. Sure, I stick up for the boxers I like. But I won't get offended.


As much as I don't like Lewis, I still give him credit for being a great boxer.



I HAVE SPOKEN............... :D

[Spark]

I don't think it's a load of crap. If a boxer can drop 10lbs for a weigh in and then gain it all back the day of the fight, hell, Lewis can gain 10lbs over 2 weeks. I just don't think Lewis took Klit seriously, and Klit took Lewis as he should have, and he almost came away with the belt. But to be honest, I thought both fighters looked pretty crap, and we all know that was Lewis' (one of) worst performances ever, yet many feel the Klit performance was something magnificant. I feel this fight was more of Lewis looking horrible than Klit looking great. Maybe that's my bias, but that's how I feel. I think if we see Lewis anywhere close to what he was against Rahman or Tyson, Klit would be mashed. Maybe that's just wishful thinking though and age really has caught up with Lennox.

Anyways, it's not like he's my brother, so rest assured I'm not offended ;)

[GARRA DE TIGRE]

xxxxxxxx

[Yung Apprentice]

I see what you mean.