forms origin

[ninjaboy]

hello all,

i have recently bumped into a guy who plays mantis and has the following forms in his curriculum and i would like to know if anyone here can expand on the origin of these sets:

pardon my romanization:

'sau bo tang lang' which he says is 'mantis takes first step'

'bung bo 1 and 2' which translates the same but, to the best of my knowledge, i've only got one bung bo in my family tree... and beyond the first line and a half of his bung bo 1, his version and my version become very dissimilar.

'lung jau sau' which is apparently 'dragon hand' (??). i've not heard of a dragon influence in mantis forms.

can anyone shed any light on this for me (and him, as he isn't familiar with what lineage his material may be associated with) ??????

thanks!!!

sincerely,
neil

[loki]

Those forms come from Sifu Raul Ortiz' school. I am not sure as to the origin though. They may be his own creation or that of his previous instructor. He is currently under the Lee Kam Wing organization so he may have dropped them from his curriculum.

Do a word search under Ortiz Chinese Boxing Academy which is his website and e-mail him. I am sure he would be more than happy to reply.

BTW, in my line several of the higher forms do contain some dragon influence but it has nothing to do with imitating a dragon. It has to do with energy more than anything else.

[ursa major]

Hi ninjaboy,

Did this person say whether his PM originated south or north ?

UM.

[ninjaboy]

thanks loki. i appreciate the info.

hey UM,

no he didn't mention north or south but, personally speaking, i don't think southern mantis folk play bung bo let alone 2 versions of it. correct me if i'm wrong...

this leads me to the assumption that it is of northern something or other, i just don't now what yet.

neil

[ursa major]

Hi ninjaboy,

A few years back I spent some time with a HG Sifu for the purpose of reviewing my HG forms. Afterwards, I guess for comparisons sake and that I was spending so much time with 7 Star PM, I decided to learn some of the PM forms in his curriculum. It included a 'Mantis Exits Cave' and 'Bung-bo I & II' amongst others including numerous weapons sets. Although the forms were clearly Mantis the similarity ended there. The 7 Star form that I call PM Exits Cave bares little or no resemblence to the one that they call PM Exits Cave. This is even more so with the Bung-Bo I & II.

I was curious about the HG PM lineage and because I could not get a satisfactory answer I searched the internet looking for PM lines that might match up.

The closest I came was a southern version called 'Iron Ox'. I settled on this because of similar stances which were unusual in that they are very low with shoulders rounded and torso advanced in a manner that we in 7 Star might find 'peculiar'. Also the training included high vestment of time in Iron Vest now the only place I've seen this before is Chow Gar another southern system. Well I may never know where this stuff really came from ?

I do not practice the HG PM I have my hands full with 7 Star.

regards,
UM.

[BeiTangLang]

What is "bung-bo II"?

[ursa major]

Originally posted by BeiTangLang
What is "bung-bo II"?

Hello BeiTangLang,

Bung-Bo II is a continuation of Bung-Bo I.

I have never seen anyone else treat Bung-Bo as two forms. The first set concentrates on unusual stepping patterns and combines upper body techniques that are obviously PM. The second set gets into stuff that is more grapple and take down some of it looks like Tai Chi PM stuff. Each form is about 35-40 steps in length and had much advanced material. The forms play in the classic Hung Gar '+' pattern followed by the overlaid 'x' pattern of steps -- quite unlike 7 Star executed on roads.

regards,
UM.