So is Shaolin Do actually a really good style of Karate?

[fa_jing]

Since it's said to be Karate, is it good Karate? Because if it was good Karate, it would have my respect. Good Karate is hard to come by.

[Judge Pen]

I'm going to keep my mouth shut and see what people say.

[Oso]

<1>

fa_jing, low score dude !

the topic has been a bit overworked lately.

[ewallace]

No. It is not chinese. Nothing is good if it is not chinese.

[MasterKiller]

It is not chinese. Nothing is good if it is not chinese.
So you're saying 'it' is good, then?

If 'it' is not chinese, and 'nothing' is good because it is not Chinese, then 'nothing' = 'it', right?
:D

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Oso
<1>

fa_jing, low score dude !

the topic has been a bit overworked lately.

Which topic? Sd or my "Biggest Troll" thread yesterday? :)

[Vapour]

I don't know every karate style. Is this Shaolin do same as Okinawan Shourin ryu karate?

[Fred Sanford]

there ain't nothing wrong with karate. If it's karate then fine. why make up 900 forms and claim a completely bs lineage and history? that's the part I don't understand.

[Shaolin-Do]

Its the golden roach style of karate.
I thought you f*ckers already knew that.

[Brad]

It doesn't look very much like the quality Karate that I've seen. I don't think it looks much like other Kungfu styles I've seen either(though they have kungfu forms). Whatever their verbally creative Grandmaster claims, Shaolin-Do is Shaolin-Do, lets just leave it at that :D

[Shaolin-Do]

I WILL MAKE YOU KISS MY FEET!

Indeed.......

I am soon to cross train in shui chiao, but Ill stick with sd still to learn forms.
Kung Fu forms.

[MasterKiller]

Wait until Sin The' dies and the lineage wars start. You'll have SD schools fighting over who is real SD and who is fake SD.:D

[Chang Style Novice]

You ever wonder how many times someone can hear the words "your fly is down" before they actually check their fly?

[Shaolin-Do]

I will steal the golden roach form and rule all. i will then come beatdown every local kwoon and/or dojos and mcdojos and monopolize the martial arts world. Shortly afterthis, I will claim to be the grandmaster of all, and demand that I become president of the United States of America.

[ewallace]

I bet if I started a chain of schools with a style called Tae Kwan Do-Do that had nothing but different variations of spinning jump kicks it would be wildly successful.

[Royal Dragon]

I'll vote for ya!!

[ewallace]

Rogue would probably be my first recruit. :)

[Shaolin-Do]

See?!?!
Its going to happen...

Ewallace-
Do it. Follow your dreams. The sky is the limit....




:confused:

[Brad]

I hope we never have to see(or hear!) a Yellow Bamboo lineage war... a bunch of people standing around screaming at each other would not be fun, lol.

[MasterKiller]

EW,
Name it Sha-olin Tae Kwon Do and you'll be able to retire in 5 years.

[ewallace]

Could you imagine a juko kai lineage war? I wonder for how long two people could stand around kicking each other in the nutz.

Kick...duck season

Kick...rabbit season

repeat

[Royal Dragon]

I'd like to see Yellow Bamboo fight it ut with Chung moo Doe guys.

They can knock opponents down with the wave of thier arms, but Chung Moo Doe guys can fly form 11 story buildings with a single bound. It would be the coolest, don't you think?

Also, Major LOL!!!'s at the Shaolin Do lineage wars!! :D ;) :p :D

[Royal Dragon]

Lol!! at Juko Kai

[Shaolin-Do]

I thought there was a bunch of bs going on with the kuk sool won guys too, no?

[fa_jing]

If the creator of the system was really well-versed in Karate, and the forms taught in Shaolin-Do were influenced by Karate, if it was the good stuff, that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by fa_jing
If the creator of the system was really well-versed in Karate, and the forms taught in Shaolin-Do were influenced by Karate, if it was the good stuff, that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

No doubt GM Ie and GM Sin The were influenced by something or we wouldn't be having this conversation. Karate, after all, has its direct linage in kung fu.

Our forms are based on kung fu principles. They have been altered somewhat or they would look like the kung fu you guys know. They are somewhat more linear than most kung fu and more circular than most karate. But they started out as kung fu.

Let me ask this: Tape yourself doing your best/favorite form. The one you do every day and know inside and out. Wait 30 years. Assuming you can still perform the form, tape it again. Compare. I guarantee it will change somehow. Maybe its subtle. Now tape everyone that has ever been taught that same form. For as many different people you will have a slightly different form. That's how things change. SD's forms have evolved differently and that's why people like to say it's karate.

There are some issues with myth mixed with fact in our lineage. I don't know what is true and what isn't. I know what I believe to be true. No one here KNOWS any truth but the truth they believe. I'll keep my opinions as to the specifics to myself.

Fa jing, maybe you are correct. Maybe somewhere in our linage our kung fu based forms were influenced by other martial arts. Maybe karate, maybe something else. Maybe some of those principals were married with the pre-existing kung fu principles. Who cares? It is still based on kung fu; it's just evolved into something slightly different. Is it better? I don't know. Is it beneficial? I think so or I wouldn't have devoted 14 years of my life to it. I have trained in other styles but I still find worth in SD.

I punch. I kick. I block, shed, bridge, trap, sweep, lock, and throw. I do kung fu. Just a different type that's all. And it’s good.

[Oso]

Bravo, JP, Bravo!!

straight up.

I'm drinkin' now but I'll shoot you a mp (see!) later this weekend.

[ewallace]

So in a nutshell, Shaolin-Do is really just the JKD of the forms world eh? :)

[red5angel]

hehe, Oso is drinking so much he can't even spell PM correctly!

[Royal Dragon]

Shaolin Do is Mcdojo Fu

[rogue]

Rogue would probably be my first recruit. Dam, ewallace you beat me to the post. I was just about to sign up.

[Oso]

the typo was real, i just usually correct.

i'd only had 5 very weak gin & tonics at that point. not weak by choice mind you...

['MegaPoint]

No, no. It is not karate. Karate relies on the use of forms that define the ryu (style/system). Unless they use actual Chuan Fa forms complete with their practical application, or Okinawan kata based forms rooted in practical bunkai (applications), then it is just some pale imitation of both.

Matsumura Sokon the great Okinawan master of Shuri-Te (one of the 3 major styles that comprise the basis for all karate- Okinawan, Korean, Japanese, American or otherwise), once warned of the practice of this type of fighting. He highlighted it when speaking of the "Bujutsu of Intelligence": "Bujutsu of Intelligence is the understanding that styles may vary; but, a style is only as good as you practice it. The desire to be superb or excel is rare. Many styles have exaggerated movements like dances; this does not work for real battle... these dances are similar to those of women". He also points out that "many people want to know... but few want to learn". These people would rather reinvent the wheel. They don't seek out guidance from those who have experience in true martial matters, but feel that they can compile and organize knowledge based on assumption and hope. Without a solid foundation the structure will crumble.

Every credible institution of higher learning in the world has a solid history behind it. The best and most venerated are often of a strong and aged lineage. This is not to say that changes can't be made. Matsumura himself stresses in his "Bucho Ikko" to "adapt to change, and keep practicong with this note in mind". The history of Shaolin Do is very short. It started off with a shaky premise. It has yet to stand the test of time. Will it "adapt" and if it does will it matter?

All I can say is that Matsumura's words were written in the 1880's. It still rings true today. His knowledge of Shaolin Chuan Fa, Jigen Ryu Kenjutsu and Okinawan Ti allowed him to be a successful Bushi (Gentlemen-Samurai) and protector for 3 Okinawan Regents. This effective legacy is now formally called Shorin Ryu (Shaolin Style/Way) and is a progenitor of ~80% of the karate seen today. This probably includes Shaolin Do (Shaolin Way).

That name makes me feel funny. Shaolin DO? Shaolin Ssu or Shorin Kenpo (Chual Fa in Chinese) make more sense. Mixing and matching Chinese and Japanese terms is odd to me. 'Nawmean? I have seen the Shaolin Do joint in San Antonio and what they do looks like mediocre to bad karate-do. Not too good. But I know real karate and most can't. Just not enough around for folks to compare things to. Still it is probably fun and it gives one a sense or empowerment and maybe even a purpose. Man cats can make anything seem legit in America, and elsewhere I would gather.

[MasterKiller]

They are somewhat more linear than most kung fu and more circular than most karate. But they started out as kung fu.
Most Shaolin forms are linear, broham.

[fa_jing]

Didn't Sin The spend time in Southeast Asia?

[Brad]

I think he's from Indonesia, so probably yes :D