what's your boogie man look like?

[Ernie]

Some thing has dawned on me ,as I read through all the different opinions and ideas that people are kind enough to share .
It would seem that we all have different views on who will be trying to kick our a$$.
What I mean is who or what is the boogieman in your mind , that you are pre paring for.
I think we all have very different takes on what a street fight is , and so our training regiment will differ .
I have shared what my boogieman is in the past but for the sake of this thread I’ll repeat myself .

I invision all the nasty things that could happen to me if I we ever in prison.
Soulless creatures with nothing but time and bad intent on their minds, pumped up and ****ed off with nothing to lose.
They will attack in groups , by surprise ,with makeshift weapons . Anywhere any time confined cells, naked in the shower, in the toilet , open yards, in the dark .
They might be fake and act friendly to lure you into something and get your defenses down.
There skilled in foul tactics doing the dirty thing at the right time , they have no honor or remorse.

How would your training change if you had to survive this environment .
Would you just continue on traditional or non-traditional wing Chun.

I would study weapons , condition my body for abuse and to be athletic enough to run , jump climb,
I would spend a lot of time in mass attack scenario’s with and with out weapons .
I would be very comfortable with the ground and learn all the dirty little tactics I could us biting , pinching and such.
These are a few ideas on how my training would go.
Now I know this is a bit extreme . but to me it’s more realistic then the , well he will through a punch like this and then I will tan and then I will chain punch him into submission.
All those people that make it into prison represent a small fraction of what is waiting for you in the street.
Just wondering what your boogieman looks like

p.s. now I know it will be easy to turn this into a funny description of the boogie man but for a second really put yourself in that cold dark cell , with all the other elements and ask yourself am I prepared for anything like this.

[TjD]

aliens man, aliens!

the worst part is you DONT know what theyre going to look like. then all of the sudden your on some ship and they're giving you anal probes and god knows what else. you might not even remember it but it happened!

it wouldnt be so bad if i just knew if they existed or not, or knew what to expect if i ever saw one, but i dont. aliens are freaky.

how do you know if tan/fook/bong will work against em? you dont!

[PaulH]

I hate this question for there is no answer. You are going down eventually and there is nothing you can prepare enough to stop it. But the Boogie man whoever he is can not hurt you if you don't fear death. I would be more afraid of the guy who can also destroy my spirit or demoralize me. As long as the heart is right and just, there will be a way for you to survive.

Regards,

[Ernie]

so far no real answer ,
to me it is simply the ability to become adaptable , you must fbe efficient in all possible ranges and situations , no you still might get killed but that would have happened anyway.
but this is my night mare not yours i will base my training on this and use it as a honesty ruler to measure what i'm doing .
for example '' am i spending way to much time trying to perfect the angle of my pinkie finger in chi sau when i could have been training in multiple attacker scenerio ''
but this is how i see combat , how do you see it and how are you preparing yourself for it.

[PaulH]

You are asking a lot, but what the heck I like your solution.

Regards,

[Ernie]

the question is ment to make you think and view your personal training , with respect to what you percieve combat to be.
the answer must be your own.

p.s.
see you in the morning, hope you can come by.

[kj]

The boogie man could as easily be someone I know and love gone wrong as a stranger in some cold and heartless place. Might be a viscous dog or rabid raccoon. No easy answers. No assurances no matter how you place your bets. Sometimes, no right answers.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[EnterTheWhip]

PaulH's reponse is perfect, and does address everything on various levels.

[Alpha Dog]

Originally posted by PaulH
...the Boogie man whoever he is can not hurt you if you don't fear death. I would be more afraid of the guy who can also destroy my spirit or demoralize me. As long as the heart is right and just, there will be a way for you to survive.

Regards,

Shi4 Se3 Ru2 Guei1

[yuanfen]

My Boogeyman?
Me.

Being stupid, careless, not alert, ending up in the wrong places
and above all not being prepared.

[kj]

Bingo, Yuanfen.
- kj

[Mr Punch]

There are no boogie men.

When I train, I try to visualize nothing but whatever's around me. If this includes someone trying to nail me, all the better for my concentration.

In situations I have done the same.

On occasion, I've been walking down badly-lit streets and I've seen 'boogie' men on the corner. Sometimes I cross the road. But sometimes, if they really are 'boogie' men, they will smell my recognition and response as fear, and they will beat me before a blow is landed.

I will not live in a prison in my home. Nor will I imprison my mind. Nor will I imprison myself in my mind... Not on account of some crackhead mugger anyway.

See what is in front of you, to the sides of you, behind you, around you.

[RedSkaNite]

My boogie man is....EL Chupacavra!

[Ernie]

RedSkaNite My boogie man is....EL Cupacavra
it would be mine to if i sat in a goat stance all day

[Edmund]

Hi Ernie,

The point of Boogieman is to scare people with their unrealistic nightmare fantasies. I don't think it's going to lead you to train better. If anything it's a manipulation away from what you should do because it's *not* honest, it's an extreme that is not likely to happen: Like ninja schools preparing students for any necessary enemy fortress infiltrations should ninja wars start.

How many multiple armed attackers do you plan to train for?
How likely is it, that you can realistically survive that should they really want to kill you?

If anything these scenarios are more a reflection of a person's life perspectives. I think it was flaco who said every WC person should become a blue belt in BJJ to handle the BJJ gangs of NY.

A real honesty ruler would be a less subjective view of the real risks you have.



Originally posted by Ernie
so far no real answer ,
to me it is simply the ability to become adaptable , you must fbe efficient in all possible ranges and situations , no you still might get killed but that would have happened anyway.
but this is my night mare not yours i will base my training on this and use it as a honesty ruler to measure what i'm doing .
for example '' am i spending way to much time trying to perfect the angle of my pinkie finger in chi sau when i could have been training in multiple attacker scenerio ''
but this is how i see combat , how do you see it and how are you preparing yourself for it.

[Ernie]

Edmund

the boogie man was simply a way for me to see if people would take the obvious easy way out of my question, a way to see how people view there training .
the ones that got the question new it had nothing to do with a boogie man but with asking yourself , do i really accept what can happen in a street fight , and if i do accept this am i honestly preparing myself for the reality of a street fight , and if so how am i prepareing myself .
some did get it but most just described the boogie man or lack of one.
you see if you have ever been in a street fight and i have , it is almost never just a simple one on one . there is normally something in the other guy or guys favor , size or weapon , or more then one .
if you accept this then how can you subject yourself to this possibility in your training , in a safe yet progressive fashion.
if you don't accept this then what is your reality ?
i simply wanted to look into peoples minds and perhaps take them out of there comfort zone and see if they can handle that uncomfortable place .

my answer to the problem is simple stress overload , mental and physical ,
place ,myself in situations i have to adapt to '' so i develop the skills to adapt and the mind that can''
place myself in situations that i can not win so i can accept defeat and just relax under the pressure and do my best .
for it is far better to be over trained then under trained.

you mentioned not honest but it is the martial artist that is not being honest with himself if he thinks that just staying within the confines of his comfort zone is enough, or that he is going to get the fight the way he plans, or even when he is ready , it will come like a theif in the night when you least expect it cus that is when you are most vulnerable .
you don't need to live your life parinoid by you also should not have blinders on....

my real views ,
have been dealing with the gangs in l.a. through out my child hood i have had to fight these type of people since i didn't join one .
it was allways me against a group, and once with a group an two with knives ,
i didn't have any great fighting skill just a lot of luck and fast feet .
but i have also been in a circle were feet are kicking and stompping me. covered in my own blood .
so you see i didn't step out of my reality but embraced it , accepted it and learned from it.
so thus i tried this little science experiemnt to see what others percieve as a reality , and if they would be honest enough to accept it and share it .
as for what every wing chun person should , as you said flaco mentioned learn bjj.
i just think every person should realize they are greater than there art and expand and grow with what ever and how ever they can.
you set your own limits and boundries ,
i hope to remove all of mine.

[Edmund]

Ernie,

Your question was not an honest one then. You don't care about what others train.

In your mind, only your boogie man is real and only your training preferences. Everyone else just hasn't embraced reality yet.

[PaulH]

"We are here to add what we can to, not to get what we can from, Life."From this perspective, Ernie's boogie man like "a harbor, even if it is a little harbor, is a good thing, since adventurers come into it as well as go out, and the life in it grows strong, because it takes something from the world and has something to give in return - Sarah Jewett"

Regards,

[kj]

Excellent post, Ed.


Originally posted by Edmund
A real honesty ruler would be a less subjective view of the real risks you have.

Ideally, followed by evaluation and planning for the most effective and efficient mitigation strategies, Wing Chun being only one of numerous alternatives.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Ernie]

edmund
Ernie,
Your question was not an honest one then. You don't care about what others train.
not at all edmund , what is mine is gained through my personal experience , and thus the right answer for me ,what is yours is gained by your personal experience and thus the right answer for you.
i cared very much what drives others as it gives me understanding on why people might say
the things they say ,
i look at everything through a combative filter , how effective is it, how much time will it take to develop vs. how often it might be used in a street fight.
other's may have never been through the same ordeals i have so they might then just be happy with the angle of a tan or the wieght distrubution, things like that . and that is great i wish i didn't know what i know and i could train in such a carefree manner .
when some form of intense violence happens to '' i hope you or anyone else never has to go through that experience'' it changes you , you become fully aware of how much damage one human can inflict on another . trust me your perception on training changes .
but this wan not a loaded question , and as i said before if you read my post there is no wrong answer , just wanted to see if people wpould mentally place themselves in the worse case scenerio enviroment . and ask themselves if there current training regiment was enough to survive such possibilities.
or if there pyscological make up would take the direction '' the exit or easy route '' of describing a imaginary creature.
kind of like the ink blot test , were they hold up some paper with a random image on it and ask the person what you see.
i just created two images and wondered which way people woild go.
no harm intended , but if someone did place themself in the prision enviroment , and did ads them selves if there current training regiment was enough , and felt a little un sure , then maybe just maybe i did a little good along the way.

[yuanfen]

Ernie says:
i just created two images and wondered which way people woild go.
no harm intended , but if someone did place themself in the prision enviroment , and did ads them selves if there current training regiment was enough , and felt a little un sure , then maybe just maybe i did a little good along the way.
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Ernie_ Best self defense against a prison environment is not to go there- unless it is the result of a great moral judgement.

BTW- I speak not out of ignorance. My late spouse(among her very diverse community service) at one time coordinated traditional spiritual counselling to Native Americans in every state and federal correctional facility in the state - from death row to minimum security and the very diverse folks in that world including the real scary ones and those who (symbolically)
stole a loaf of bread. And often, I was the designated driver.
One can dream up all kinds of boogeymen in our crazy world-
American prisons are no fun... but you can create scarier images (I can)of
travelling and ending up on the real dark side in many other places in this world.
But the essential question- why does one need a boogeyman to learn kung fu?

[Grendel]

My boogie man can beat your boogie man. :p

[Ernie]

you don't need a boogie man to learn kung fu.
but there are different reasons why people learn martial arts , i thought it was only for the combative element , so accepting all the little nasty things that can happen in the streets , and training in a fashion that teaches me adaptability and mental /emotional control seemed very obvious .
but i now see that people train for many other reasons . and '' a street fight '' is not even on there minds .
which is cool .
but it leaves all this room for argument and abstact approach . it becomes the ''martial art '' based on individual preferece , not the martial skill based on combative elements.
when it becomes based simple survival in adverse situations then we can discuss from a commen ground , the human element , understanding our weakness and finding ways to improve ,
. it's funny to me when i read threads like the sparring one . some advocate sparring , others completly disagree , while others like myself se it as a extension of chi sau and application of threory ,
it amazes me on how far apart the minds of wing chun people are . i always figuered a fight was a fight , it can happen in long range , with weapons , in close quarters , on the ground and so on .
and if i'm training to improve my chances of survival in a fight should i not expose myself to these thinngs in a controlled enviroment , the key words being controlled and training.
of course it's not the real thing , but you go through some of the emotional dialogue that you would experience to a degree.
so that's why i placed my qusetion in a place were all the possibilities of a fight were very obvious '' prision '' minus getting shot .
and i never said is your wing chun style preparining you for this but i asked is your current training preparring you for this .
if you look at it from that perspective , it is a simple question that only you can answer for yourself.
but i really do appreciate your input , you have been honest and that is the most anyone can ask for

[mun hung]

"boogie man"?

Not preparing "for" the boogie man. Preparing "to be" the boogie man. :D

Actually, my "boogie man" is usually a good looking woman who manages to get me into fights. Let's call her the "boogie woman".

[Ernie]

mun hung,
sounds like we are bothed cursed with the same affliction.
after only two hour after meeting my girlfriend , a friend and myself were fighting four other guys in a parking lot , as they tried to pull her into there convertable ,
thank god they were drunk and my friend could fight , but at least i got the girl :)