Tradition is . . .

[Vash]

Not an insult to those who practice traditional arts in a traditional manner, just some random thoughts before bed.

Up until about WWII, weren't styles of MA (Kung Fu, Karate, et al) constantly being modified, and in some cases changed altogether? Why, then, the current "trend" of keeping tradition?
In some instances, such as for historical reasons, this is understandable. But, for practical application, isn't evolution necessary?

I know, some say traditional styles or systems work great; that's why they're traditional. But where did they come from? Modified from previous ideas?

Okay, I think I've at least got the bulk off my mind. If anyone wants to respond, then go ahead. I'm not gonna argue. It's nappy time.

Oh, I like the traditional modern approach; take what works, forget won't don't, then go eat at Wendy's. :cool:

[Christopher M]

It's quite possible that many people mean, when they say "traditional" exactly what you're describing as the original meaning of the word. It's certainly what I mean by it.

[Vash]

Okay, here's THE question I had wanted to ask. Just came to me:

Is change the absolute constant in all martial arts? By this, I mean refinement, adaptation to the individual practitioner, etc.

Oh, this is mainly a question for those who train in traditional styles. I'm kinda aiming at those who train primarily for self defence value. I'm kinda riding the fence on this one; I want to be street effective (what a horrible term), but I enjoy the practice of traditional art.

Guess there's another thing I wanted to say: it's not the style, it's the way it's trained.

Dag gum. Time for Bed. NOW!

[Christopher M]

I can approach my teacher traditionally by trying to be exactly like him, or I can approach my teacher traditionally by trying to have the same relationship with him he had with his teacher. The latter is, I believe, the sort of traditionalism classicaly practiced by the so-called traditional martial arts. To the extent that the former kind of traditionalism has "crept in", I suspect it's largely due to poor instruction.

Traditional martial arts have a strong tradition of finding your own way in them, making them your own, and however else you want to phrase this.

[joedoe]

I think a lot of people have a misconception (probably brought on by bad kung fu flicks and people's imagination) about how MAs used to be trained.

For example, my Sigong was a traditional MA by anyone's definition. He began his training around 1910, learning kung fu from his grandmother. However he had 7 different masters in his career and learned at least 5 different styles of 'traditional' kung fu.

I think all a teacher can do is to teach their interpretation of an art. With each generation an art changes - it must change otherwise it will die. By the simple process of an art being handed from teacher to student, the art changes. Tradition does not equate to stasis. Tradition is in relation to the concepts and philosophies of an art.

[SevenStar]

good post

[Serpent]

Yeah, well said, joedoe.

[joedoe]

Thanks guys :) Occasionally I spout forth something other than drivel :D

[SevenStar]

yeah, I guess there really is a first time for everything!:D

[Serpent]

Really? Maybe there's hope for me yet!

*opens gate for flood of insults*

[Merryprankster]

Serpent,

Depends on whether or not you're going to continue to spend your time slobbering over every woman who posts on this forum. ;)

[bodhitree]

I agree, The TKD school my Dad teaches at always follows 'tradition' and they are very closed minded. Arts should always be growing and changing, or else why would they be called Arts!!!!!

[norther practitioner]

Is change the absolute constant
Yes, and prob. the only one.... as it should be.. things are dynamic, even if you can describe it staticly...

[MasterKiller]

Chaos is inherent in all compounded things. Strive on with diligence--Buddha.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by bodhitree
I agree, The TKD school my Dad teaches at always follows 'tradition' and they are very closed minded. Arts should always be growing and changing, or else why would they be called Arts!!!!!

Very good point.

I was once talking with one of my training brothers after our Sigung died. We were all upset, but he was really down in the dumps because he felt that with the passing of our Sigung, a lot of knowledge and understanding about the art had been lost. I pointed out that it wasn't lost - each of us carried it on in some way, and if it could be discovered the first time, it could be discovered again. It was up to us to keep things going.

I think that was when I realised that martial arts should be alive and constantly evolving. Principles and concepts remain, but the practitioner has to work with those and expand those to keep the art alive.

[Laughing Cow]

All good points so far.

One thing I always ask people when they talk about traditional.

What is traditional, why do you think that traditional is worse/better?

I think most of the "traditional & modern guys" would get a shock if they could time travel and see what really happened and that there is not much new out there.

Cheers.

[Fen]

Traditional:::

The deeper meaning as it relates to its people, the ethics and to the culture.

The new stuff:::

Is that the current generation of MA are too busy 'seeking knowledge' and not really understanding the true meaning of traditional

~Jason

P.S. I got this from my Sifu and Friend and I do feel the same!!

Also Joedoe well put!!

[Royal Dragon]

Hmmm, This may not ahve naything to do wiht the topic, but when it comes to forms, i believ in keeping them as historically intact as possible. You see, many of those sets are VERY old, andwere used sucsessfully to train fighting skills back when it really counted. now. most fights are non lethal anyway. I feel in order to preserve the past knowledge, we must preserve the froms in an exacting mannor as possible.

BUT, we face different types of attacks today. Strategies are different, goals are different. I think when it comes to applying those forms, we need to research the movements, and see how they can be applied to today's needs. This gives room both for historical preservation, AND innovation in the same system. The forms are the anchor to the knowledge of the past. The testing, experimenting, and refining how the moves of those forms are applied are the future.

I'd like to see a traditional forms division in MMA comps.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on the subject.

RD