3 poison arrow fist?

[red5angel]

I think that is what they call it in SPM. I am wondering if anyone else uses it? I am also wondering if ayone has used it to effect in sparring or in "reality"?

[LionDancer]

I believe it is more commonly known as "3 step arrow"... you need to be able to break down the components of the form and where it becomes almost "second nature" to you to be effective....

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[fidon]

I think you might be referring to Sarm Bo Gin (3 sets of spearing fist), it is basically the first form that SPM begins with, later on there is also an advanced Sarm Bo Gin form...so its the most simple form to begin with and also the most advanced. The form is practiced to give the person the correct Tong Long stance, the development of the building of energy in the fingers and so forth. It is an important form, although it appears short and simple first up, it is fundamental to an SPM practicioner.

[mantis-1]

saam bo gin - 3 step arrow.

A set of tong long principles to develop power, speed, balance and timing. No use trying to use the actual form in sparring, rather the principles learn't through training the form (you should be able to break the form down and apply the principles as needed). Not all Saam Bo Gin forms are the same I know 2 versions same 3 step theory but movements and power generation slightly different. Not all pai see it as a seed form or very important form. In Chow Gar my style it is seen as the most basic form and most advanced... tho there are slightly different levels of the form.

Regards

[red5angel]

Thanks for the info so far guys. So if I am understanding correctly the form is generally about developing that sort of energy? fidon, you mentioned it being important to developing Tong Long stance? how so?

[mantis-1]

float, sink swallow and spit.........

[David]

Your stance is the universally applied technique to which all the others are attachments. An incorrect stance will lose you many things such as stability, balance, mobility, power, leverage and the fight.

From what I've seen and from my own training experience, getting your mantis stance right takes a lot of practice, trial 'n' error and thought. Once you have it sussed, you'll know and you'll be able to tell at a glance whether someone else has it. I think all this concentration on the stance (legs and how the body sits on top of them) really develops a keen interest in, and then a practical sensitivity to, balance - which you take into every other aspect of the art.

I am told sombogin is "not for fighting, it's for learning". It's the first and last in that you start with it to get the foundation and you finish with it to demonstrate your level. Som bo gin is very much about developing the body and mind to perform the basics with correct linkage, power and precision. sbg will grow with the increase in knowledge that you gain with the rest of training and related experiences.

spm rocks :)

-David

[fidon]

Yeah, as i was saying the form will teach you to grip the ground with your feet to drive all that energy out (eg: the spearing forward - bil sou etc..) from that the energy from your hands are changed to tearing motions to crushing movements. It's all linked together and it will flow on, just remember to grip the ground, then throw all the energy out and maintain it...its a lot to understand, but do the best you can, all the forms afterwards should be pretty much building on from those movements, and when you do move on to the next grade, which i'll assume will be Sarm Bo Yil Sou, or the like, then you should be able to understand the energy required for sarm bo gin.

I mean a person could spend a lifetime doing sarm bo gin, but until you move on to the next level then you won't fully understand how the energy should truly be developed...in the meantime just practice as your instructor has shown you, i hope i havent blabbed on too much.

Good Luck :)

[mantis-1]

I watched my Sifu perform Saam Bo Gin the other week in class, at first he performed it with no power.... showing just the movements, then repeated the form with very precise form and power. All the way through he looked relaxed and calm with all the techniques being sharp and yet still relaxed till the very last second. He came over afterwards and held out his arm and asked me to pinch the skin on the top of his forearms...... I couldnt do it the energy had been brought out to his arms though this is something that takes years to develop. But has developed through diligent practise of Saam Bo Gin

[Jook Lum]

Hello again Red5Angel!Sam Bo Gin is the beginning and the end of Jook Lum.As mantis1 said it develops swallow,spit,sink and float.It is also one way to develop the 1st,2nd and 3rd hand.And as others on here have pointed out it develops stance and the body mechanics necessary to deliver the different mantis powers.Most 3 step arrow formulas also contain either the five main seeds of the system or most of the 18 mantis hands(if not all)it usually depends on the style and/or teacher.One of the most important things when first learning the form is to take your time and work on developing one aspect of the form at a time otherwise it can become overwhelming trying to do to many things at once.It will seem like when you are trying to do one part the correct way that it throws off another part(If you concentrate on the hands then your stance and footwork seem to be off,when you concentrate on your stance and footwork your hands seem to be off etc.)When doing the form in the beginning perform it slowly.(at Jacks they do it to quickly)Hope this helps a little,there is much more to write about this formula this is only the beginning.

[red5angel]

Hey Jook Lum! I am not sure what "swallow,spit,sink and float" means exactly, haven't heard that yet in class.

Do you train at Master Marks school? Could you tell me if you guys concentrate on footwork in the beginning of your study there?

[Jook Lum]

Hello!At Gin Foon Marks you start with the basics-stance and footwork.You begin walking the horse(footwork)and switching the horse and eventually some hands are added while walking the horse.Swallow,spit,float and sink is something you will not here at Jack`s. Swallow-Is to absorb (or take in) the force of the opponents strike,to either neutralize or recycle the opponents force.Spit-Is to strike the opponent with your own power or to strike back with the power that the opponent has given you.Float-It is a rising(lifting hands),upwards or outwards technique.Sink-Is to be able to sink into your opponents movement so you can immobilize(or trap) your opponent.There is much more to swallow,spit,float and sink,they are best seen and felt when explained.Also they may all be used in one technique or you may only use two or three.A SPM technique cannot be correctly done without them.As with everything in SPM it is a very deep subject to fully discuss what they are and what they can do.Basically i will say that Swallow(Tung),Spit(Tou),Float(Fou)andSink(Chum) are Chinese analogies of controlling the force and balance of your opponent and that they are limitless combinations to lead the opponent so as to unbalance or collapse him.I hope this helps to explain them a little bit.Feel free to ask any questions you might have about the style and i will try to answer them.

[red5angel]

Why wouldn't I hear about this at Jacks school?

Well so far I am impressed by the art, it's a hell of a lot of fun and there are some really useful things I have learned so far and I have only scratched the surface!

[mantis-1]

You could study SPM for years and not even scratch the surface! you must be lucky!

[red5angel]

Most arts are like that although the learning curve is always higher in the beginning. I have found soem really good ways of looking at things differently then I did in Wing Chun, sort of complimentary, as well as some things you never see in that art. All in all I am pretty happy I found the school and the art. It's nice to be near an "epicenter" or SPM so I can get some real solid and accurate input as well!

[tnwingtsun]

Does this punch look anything like Bai Mei's "Arrow shoot" punch?

[Jook Lum]

Hello Red5angel!Jack has not learned them.

[Jook Lum]

Hello tnwingtsun!Which punch are you asking about,the 3 power strike?:confused:

[tnwingtsun]

Bai Mei has a punch reffered to as the "Arrow Shoot"

It starts out floating and sinks/swallows/spits where you end
up in a position that can look like pulling a arrow on a bow.

It can also look tighter,depending on how much it has been trained.

I wish I knew what the SPM punch you guys were talking about looked like,but it may be close from what I've read.

[mantis-1]

The punch we are talking about is a double handed straight phoenix eye strike, this then opens into Bil jee I would imagine the people in this discusion do the form slightly different as in Chow Gar straight after the double strike you open the fingers slowly then bil jee where as I think others do it quicker resulting in the 3 power strike someone mentioned before, just different versions though.... in my opinion my experience in jooklum is very limited.

cheers:)

tnwingtsun the techinique you mention sound like man dan sau (sorry for the spelling) bow and arrow hand a grap and pull with one hand and a phoenix to the thoat with the other.

[tnwingtsun]

Hello Jook Loom and Mantis,thanks for the replys,

Yes mantis,you described the punch I was thinking of,it is from the external forms,I know the punch you described,just didn't have a chinese name to put on it.:)

[LionDancer]

would it possible toput out a short clip so that we may compare?

[mantis-1]

I dont know how to put a clip up.

sorry

[red5angel]

Jook Lum, can you PM or email me please I have some questions for you but they may be more apropriate off list.