I am going to school!!!

[StickyHands]

Hey guys, I finally found what seems like a very good school, at least a well-deserved shot. It seems the school is instructed by two masters, each has their own respective times for teaching, but it's the same kwoon. It also seems they are both very good teachers, and haven't detected any fraudulent harangue. So that's good. But Im kinda troubled, Im not sure from what teacher to study from. One teaches the Yang 24 forms with Yang 32 and 42 Sword forms and the other teaches Chen Taiji. Im not exactly too fond of practicing one style for two years and then figure out what fits me, when the situation arises, then Ill have to cope with it, but I rather not enter the school with such intention at first hand. So Im wondering based on descriptions of each style, what would you recommend? Like what kinda of personality is a necessity for the practitioner or the practice itself is apt for the distinctive styles? Well thanks a lot. I know Laughing Cow will probably be flinging his feet in the air and laugh uncontrollably. lol. :D

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by StickyHands
I know Laughing Cow will probably be flinging his feet in the air and laugh uncontrollably. lol. :D

With a comment like that ....

So you got 2 choices:

1.) Yang 24,32 & 42 are actually PRC routines and don't come directly from the Yang style.

2.) Chen Tjq will depend on who the teacher is and under who he studied.
Linage can be quickly verified.

Choice 1 is good if that is what you are after.

Choice 2 seems to be the more martial orientated one and depending on the teacher definately will be worth it.
This style also has jumps and mixes slow and fast movements.
It will differ depending if it is large or small frame.

My choice would be to go with Chen TJQ.

Cheers.

[StickyHands]

May I ask what are PRC routines?

The Chen style is Lao Da Jia (Traditional Chen Tai Chi Old Large Frame) Form.


Actually the Sifus have them accomodated 2 different ways:

Chen Style Tai Chi Classes

BASIC CHEN TAI CHI CLASSES
Includes: Wuji (Taoist meditation), Other Qi Gong exercises and Lao Da Jia (Traditional Chen Tai Chi Old Large Frame) Form.

Chen Style Tai Chi Classes
UNLIMITED CHEN TAI CHI CLASSES
Basic classes (morning and evening) and Advance classes (Push Hands, Chin Na, Red Palm, Traditional Chinese Weapon Forms - Jian, Dao, Long Staff, Short Staff, Guan Dao, Spear, Sword Sparring and Eastern Philosophy)

OR

Adult Kung Fu & Yang Style Tai Chi Classes
24 FORMS, 32 FORMS (SWORD TAI CHI), 42 FORMS (SWORD TAI CHIi)

*You can also take Adult Kung Fu Classes with this program.

Kung Fu Classes for Adults (Longfist)
FULL CONTACT, SPARRING AND SELF DEFENSE

*You can also take Yang Style Tai Chi Classes with this program.

[Laughing Cow]

The PRC(People's Republic of China) forms were created by a board of CMA masters so that they could be taught to the masses for health benefits and were standardised for competitions.

Most of those forms are mostly based on the Yang style though, but the forms are not part of the traditional Yang style.
Nothing wrong with them, but most Instructors don't teach or know the martial applciations.

The Chen style looks like standard curriculum for large frame.

[Brad]

What LC said. 24, 32 sword and 42 sword are standardized Taiji and not Yang style. 42 is the international competition routine BTW, and is a combined form. 24 & 32 sword I think are closer to Yang :-) People who learn the standardized stuff well seem to develop good basics and be pretty adaptable to learning new styles, so if you're not sure what you want to do exactly, this might be a good place to start. Asuming the teacher knows what their doing :D Do they teach 42 or 48 form too? It's a little odd to have a standardized wushu taiji curriculum and not have one of these taught at some point. Most people who learn that end up in the traditional stuff later on anyway.

[StickyHands]

No Im guessing just 24 form, and 32 and 42 for sword forms. Does the Yang 24 propagate on how to develop rooting, chi or do qi-gong?

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by StickyHands
No Im guessing just 24 form, and 32 and 42 for sword forms. Does the Yang 24 propagate on how to develop rooting, chi or do qi-gong?

I think it will depend on the Instructor and his background and what he knows.

Many TJQ Instructors will teach the 24 as an introductionary form and than continue with the traditional forms and training methods.

Hope this helps.

[StickyHands]

Ya thanks :), Im sending you a PM of what the Yang instructor replied to an email I sent.

[Laughing Cow]

Absolutely no disagreements with what he states, but than I am not surprised.

Checked his Website too, good lineage and seem to be the real deal.

Still saying that you should go with the Chen style, tougher than Yang 24 but if you can cut it ...

Cheers.

[looking_up]

What is Red Palm? I didn't know that this was part of the tradional Chen style curriculum.

[StickyHands]

Thanks, I sent you another PM.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by looking_up
What is Red Palm? I didn't know that this was part of the tradional Chen style curriculum.

Not sure, might be a mis-translation.


Shaolin Red Fist (Hong Chuan)

The Liang Yi Tang Ben records that the Chen Villiage practiced 'four small sets of Red Fist'. The Red Fist boxing is a Shaolin form. Given the close proximity between the Chen Villiage and the Shaolin Temple, it is not surprising that this form of boxing would be practiced there. The Red Fist boxing is also widely practiced in Shanxi where it is several different and but related sets, Tai Zhu Quan being one of them. Stylistically, it stresses low postures, soft use of muscles, using the mind instead of strength, speedy emission of power, guarding the four directions, agility, using the Qi circularly, closing into the opponent and using sticking and leaning.

[wujimon]

Out of those 2 styles, I would rather choose the chen, but that's b/c I've already trained in the PRC forms before and that I've always been interested in chen.

However, one thing is that with the chen, I think it really depends on what the lineage is. I trained under this one instructor who mostly taught the PRC competition sets, but I saw that later down the line, this instructor taught the chen sets. I knew that I would have to go thru all the PRC forms again to learn the chen sets so I was going to commit myself.

However, after seeing a demonstration of the chen set, I realized that the basic chen requirements were not there. I then found out that this instructor did mostly the PRC chen forms. While this is not bad, they are more of the xinjia variant and I wanted to get into the traditional laojia forms.

I realized then that if I want to train in chen, then it's best to find the right teacher first and not settle for anything less. Personally, I think it's easier to teach the basic requirements for the PRC based forms b/c they are (like LC noted) standardized sets meant for health and taught to the masses. However now that I've found a chen instructor from a good lineage, I'm just getting a taste of how hard it is to maintain the basic bodily requirements for chen over those from the PRC based forms.

Just my 2 cents.

HTH
w.

[Kevin Wallbridge]

I understand what you are getting at wujimon, but I'm going to take a shot at your terminology.

To say PRC sets is too vague, you mean state sponsored sports sets. After all, Chen vilage is PRC so the Laojia sets are PRC too.

I also have to say that Xinjia and the sports styles are not so closely related. What people call Xinjia (this is a village term) comes from Chen Fa-ke, and thats as good as Chen lineage gets. When Chen Zhaokui came back to Chenjiaguo what he was doing doing was new to the village, but it may not have been new to the family line. This at least is the stance taken by the disciples of Chen Zhaokui. However, both sides in the debate have political agendas to serve.

My personal feeling is that short forms suck, and learning them is a waste of time. Leave them for the grannies at the community centre.

[Laughing Cow]

The feeling I get from talking to other Chen practicioners is the following:

Xin-Jia = Lao-Jia forms Chen Fa-Ke style.

Within the village they only seem to differentiate between Lao Jia and Xiao Jia.

But maybe more educated minds have information that invalidates this.

Cheers.

[wujimon]

Thanks for the clarification, Kevin. I like your term of "state sponsored sport set". I tried to further identify them by pasting "competition" at the end. Anyhow, I like your terminology of the "state sponsored sport set".

As for the relation between xinjia and sport sets, I was under the assumption that most of the sport sets were derived from the xinjia set. I found reference to that on digidao (http://www.digidao.com/nmod.htm).

Anyhow, I like LC's little description of this too regarding xinjia components. However I've heard that within the village the differentiation is between da jia (big frame) and xiao jia (small frame) with the lao/xin jia sets part of the big frame.

In any case, to get back to SH's original question, I'd say do the chen curriculum.

:)
w.

ps. let me also add that I agree with Kevin's feelings regarding the short forms. :)