the true staff?

[German Bai Lung]

Does anyone know of that guan-form?

http://www.chinwoomen.com/download/VIDEO/CHIUCHIMAN/tmtong.rm

It was called the real Chiu Chi Man "Fok Fu Kuan Yoeng Guan" ....???

[CLFNole]

So is that form a 7-Star Praying Mantis form or a Jing Mo form?

Or is it a 7-Star form that was incorporated into the Jing Mo sets?

Peace

[German Bai Lung]

The Form is a seven Star Mantis Form and integrated in the chin Woo Set.
Thats my information!

I´m playing the 7* PM from Lee kam Wing, Hong Kong. And the Form I´ve learned (with the same name) is slightly different.
Looks for me, like someone created here the best of seven star Staff Forms (Techniques of Lok Hap guan and Ng Long Ba Gua Guan are very well to find...).

[Shaolinlueb]

i like that. it was a nice form and performed well. It was kinda long for the forms im used to.

[tanglang]

so how come that in LKW- lineage we find three staff-forms(as there are 1. the Fok Fu Kuan Youeng Guan we were talking about allready, 2. the Ng Long Ba Gua Guan and 3. the Lok Hap Guan) and in the jing woo-form Shifu Kai- Uwe Pel is talking about we find elements of all the three above mentioned? Was the form parted into three maybe or were three forms put together in one ?Does anyone else except Shifu Pel have an I idea about it - just want to collect several opinions..don't get me wrong Shifu Pel..:)

[yingching]

There does appear to be some elements of some other Mantis Staff sets mixed in there. Looks nice, but a few moved too many...:)

[tanglang]

Right, also elements of a spear-form from our style..This is what makes me wonder according to what Shifu Pel wrote about this form..

[GARRA DE TIGRE]

hello


in the panther videos series of raul ortiz ( lee kam wing lineage ) he show the law gar kwun ( law family staff ) a form that come from the southern law gar system , hung gar have the same staff from from law gar . i am asking this because in the web page of gran master lee kam wing no one of the raul ortiz forms names appear in his list of the mantis forms . anyone knows why ?

[tanglang]

Could you post a link to sifu Ortiz' homepage? Then I can have a look and tell you more.. didn't find his page..:)

[GARRA DE TIGRE]

helloo tang lang


i don't remember the link , buy you could look in google writing : }}

ortiz chinese boxing academy


but the forms of his panther series don't apperar in the web page .

the forms of the praying mantis panther series are :

- sau bo tong long
- bung bo
- ching fu kuen
- dai yat lo
- dai yeet lo
- dai sam lo
- lung jau sao
- law gar kwun
- mei jiu lo hon sword
- tong long hei gung

[Crushing Step]

http://www.ortizacademy.com

The forms in the panther series are not what he teaches. They contain the same concepts, that's all.

_J

[German Bai Lung]

So here is the Form, how we like it to play:

http://www.bailung.de/langstock.mov

[tanglang]

Come on, don't start the same**** we had in the german martialarts-board allready! It's just a pupil showing the form , so sure it won't be perfect! Tell me why you allways have the need to affront people of the LKW- lineage? Maybe because Lee Kam Wing didn't want you to teach in his name anymore? Still angry and stumping like a little child with the foot on the ground? For me it seems so....:confused:

[GermanMantis]

the second form rather reminds to PM than the first. is the first realy praying mantis? or is it just typical wushu with gong fu influence?

[Brad]

I don't entirely understand the question, but if you're asking if it's a standardized wushu form, then no it's defenitely not. :confused: Eitherway, I thought the first one looked closer to what I've seen considered "traditional" than the second one in how it's performed, but thats from seeing non-pm styles. I don't know any pm, except part of a sword form.

[GermanMantis]

i don't ment that it's a stadardized wushu-form, but a gong-fu form with wushu-elements. i know the "traditional"-form and this looks very much like the second one. by the way, which jian-form do you know?
greetings!

[Brad]

What do you mean by wushu elements? The jian form I learned was the one created by Yu Chenghui http://www.wahlum.com/images/dbgim.gif

[GermanMantis]

What's that pic? LOL!! Sorry;-)
O.K. Back to the basics.
Well i mean this elements that are much more fashionable, or how can i say, impressive, spectaculare.
Hmmm ... well i think i remember the wrong form, sorry!
This one was the"special one" (http://www.chinwoomen.com/download/VIDEO/CHIUCHIMAN/cslee1.rm).
But, refering to the staff form, it's still not the original, or do you think so?

[Brad]

Well, I think the visual flair is more the natural result of using lower stances and more power/intent in the movements, both of which seem to be pretty common in a lot of good traditional styles(I know some do use higher stances though).

I can't call up the dead master that created praying mantis staff so I can't really say if that's exactly how it was originally intended, but using low stances is a perfectly legitimate training methods in longfist(what I'm mostly familiar with).

Oh, that pic was the only one of Yu Chenghui that I could find on short notice, lol ;)

[tanglang]

Maybe we agree in that..the staff-form posted by Kai-Uwe-Pel is a show-form,traditional and the only authentic one, as HE says, performed for an audience, the form we see in the link of german bailung is a traditional staff-form like it's performed in the lineage of LKW. Though the stances are really not the best , the girl is not "grounded", you can see differences: for those who know the other LKW-staff-forms also, they soon will be reminded on the second or third staff-form , too, while whatching the authentic staff-form of Kai-Uwe-Pel.. Authentic or not- for me a discussion without an end- let's say: both forms come from different lieages and differ because of that - sure everyone want's to point out, that HIS style is the only, the best, the most authentic one- so what..? I'm really tired about this kind of I'm- better-than you-discussions..:rolleyes:

[CLFNole]

Didn't the first video come from Ching Woo/Jing Mo? If it did then it would make sense that it might be slightly different than say from a straight lineage of Praying Mantis. Ching Woo/Jing Mo contains a variety of styles and some have likely influenced others.

In any case so what? I mean Buk Sil Lum has the Pek Kwar Dan Do form and it is slightly different than the version from the Tai Sing Pek Kwar style. Does this matter? No. What matters is the overall integrity is there. I mean forms from the same lineage will typical change slightly as they are passed from generation to generation as each sifu will have his or her own interpretation.

Obviously the 1st performer is much better than the second as the primer is a sifu I believe. That being said is the "form" itself any better it would be an exercise in futility to debate.

Peace.

[tanglang]

Yeah, the man understood what I tried to explain the whole time and why this discussion starts to get on my nerves more and more..:) :) :) :)
Though: It doesn't seem to be just a variation, obviously two or three traditional forms were combined ( You can recognize whole lines of the second and third staff-form nearly)- maybe because of show-reasons, or seen from another perspective, were parted into three- what I don't believe.
But what's wrong in taking the essence of all three staff-forms and put them in one form to show the effectiveness of 7*-staff? And if he learned the form like this from his master, the form is allready traditional also,because it's "traditioned" from one generation to another allready.. I'm just angry about this We-are -more-traditional-and-authentic-than-you-****, that Shifu Kai-Uwe allways tries to start- in the german discussion-board also- and about these numerous p.m.'s I get saying that the victory of the true mantis-lineage is near and things like: put warm clothings on, I will fight and win the lawsuit...- whitch lawsuit- against whome? Who is the lawer in this online-court, Mister Kai-Uwe-Pel? God, or the wholy mantis, or who? I have no longer the impression of a serious discussion- partner then, though you are well informed and very engaged in the field of Praying- mantis-kungfu and though you have much more experience than we have..:confused:

[Crushing Step]

GBL-

WHat empty hand form is this?

_J

[tanglang]

Which empty hand form do you mean?

[German Bai Lung]

Originally posted by German Bai Lung
Does anyone know of that guan-form?

http://www.chinwoomen.com/download/VIDEO/CHIUCHIMAN/tmtong.rm

It was called the real Chiu Chi Man "Fok Fu Kuan Yoeng Guan" ....???

Okay, that was the Origin... I always wanted to know, if someone who practise PM knows the Form!
No Answer!
So I posted a form I used to know ...
I didn´t say: thats the best or the only lonely true...

Kai Uwe Pel is still trying to get a good reputation by discrediting others. Very sad.

But back to topic did anyone know the form and it´s different tryouts?

@JJMantis: the form is the dai fu ngan (great Tigergoose Form!).

[Tieh]

I'd be interested on that too as I learned the "Fok Fu Kuan Yoeng Guan" the way German Bai Lung knows it. So what about all the WHF lineage students here on the board? How do you learn the Fok Fu Kuan Yoeng Guan?

Best Regards

[BeiTangLang]

Guys, please stop with the personal attacks as well as the lineage attacks. Incinuated or flat out, they degrade the intent of this board.
Thank you,
BTL

[tanglang]

So as for me it wasn't the interest to degrade the intent of this board, take my excuse for the rough tone I took answering to the post of Kai-Uwe-Pel - writing while beeing angry is not the best way .. I agree...:)