ernie and the boogyman

[flaco]

hey bro, your question is interesting
my boogie man, is a friend of mine, who is absolutely nuts, trained wrestling in high school, took roids, did kickboxing, trains bjj, and has never been tapped by anyone in training, although from what i heard, after an hour of rolling, renzo choked him unconciouss, but he would not tap.

he has been in many four on one fights, and always won, whetther he was knocked out for 5 minutes, left in a parking lot, went back inside to beat another bouncer, was tackled, beat up again, then went back in again,etc, to eventually nobody would touch him, they were slowly being dropped, the only way to beat him, is to kill him.
he has been to jail several times, and his last time in, he asked who was the boss on his cell block, well he went into the guys cell, and beat him down, and he became the boss. people like my friend only live for repect, and he has no problem dying fighting, its what he lives for anyway, and no doubt he would do well in ufc, if he stopped partying and tried it.

but in reality, can i train to fight him? no i cannot, because if i kick his ass, he will be back again, until one of us dies,or i just take a loss,(and he will kill me)so if i should train reality, i should train how to avoid a conflict, because 90 percent can be avoided.

i understand your mentality, and i had the same ideas a few years ago, before i got hurt, now when you have time away from that mindset, you sit back and look at how it easily develops paranoia, and a desire to train so hard for a situation that may never occur. i firmly believe in reality training, but people who live in different neighborhoods may not have the same constant threats, and in my hood, a gun usually decides a bad confrontation, and i really live in a middle class neighborhood.

when you train to fight, you want to fight, and alot of that energy brings trouble to you.(im not speaking of you personally) but its true.i agree with your training methods,and i was wondering if you have any good books or teachers for mind training, because to me, thats the key, and its an area i havent dove into deep enough.
my anger has gotten me into some fights in the last year, and my experience is that stamina is the most major concern, because my heart was racing like never before, but in reality, i should have avoided the fights. yesterday i read the paper, and two guys guys into an argument on the road, and the pulled over to fight, and one was stabbed and killed, is it worth it?
even if i took his knife away, should i kill him? if i dont, he will maybe come after me again,later, so best solution, dont pull over. my last fight was road rage thing, and looking back, yes i won, but i could have been shot, etc. would it be worth it? i feel it aint. i have a beautiful fiance, a great career ahead,etc, why did i even fight? because i had my ego tell me that i train martial arts, and this guys a *****, and i will kick his ass.
in reality, with your prison statements, the only way to prepeare for those things, is to be so sick of life, that all you have is pride, and you cannot lose that, or you have nothing. people that are that deadly in prison, is because all they have to live for, is repect, people on the outside, have family, girls, money, career,etc.
i have many friends in prison who fought alot in juvenille prison, but as adults, have had few fights in prison.

[Ernie]

ernie and the boogyman
is that like echo and the bunny man:)
flaco
that was a i posted to see what people thought there street would entail and if they felt there current training regiment was up to par ,
as i find many people train for reasons other then maximum effecientcy.
and yes i would defenitly be walking the streets paranoid if i took it all in like that condensed distorted version of reality .
but like your friend there are some serious real life monsters out there , and a drunk group of idiots can also wreck havoc on the human body.
but your right again why , go were the element is,and if you should get in that situation why be macho.
trust me when i say i love life and have know competitive ego
and from hour brief meeting , i hope you picked that up, but if i'm going to train in a martial art were killing some one is the end result i must honestly accept that as a goal. and i must train in the fahion which will produce that goal as effeciently as posible .
i got no problem with accepting wing chun or kali is desighned to murder someone / for the squemish depart some one from this earth.
do i want to kill someone hell no , i love people and respect life , hell i'm a vegitarien .
but i wont deney my training.
as for the mind thing it has alot to do with your character , i have a very calm spirit so i don't get all emotiona; about getting hit or bleeding . i've been in icu a few times in my life and i know what bad shape feels like .
but when i sparr or when a chi sau session gets silly i don't see it as a compitition i just relax ,breath and watch the dude turn into a spoiled child that must have his way , and when this happens i see him make mistakes ,
so i don't allow myself to get sucked into the punching fest or the who goes faster wins mentalitiy that often happens when two people trade blows .
i got no problem fadeing out of his range and letting him over commit . and zapping him at that time .
i don't think a book will help you , you have to place yourself in situations that overload your system, were you can't win no matter how hard you try and after the crazy emotional rush settles you just learn to ride it out .
the more you condition your emotional overload switch the easyier it will get to control .
like when your being choked out , you struggle and fight and get desperate and then your out .
subject your self to those extremes in multiple attacker situations were there are just to many and your going down , and after a while you will accept death per say and just relax and do your best the emotions wont run you they will simply give you fuel.
train until your completly fatigued , when you are huffing and puffing and your arms feel like lead , your legs like 100 pounds of sand , and then try and spar . this is similar to what the body goes through in a real fight when the heart starts racing and everything feels slugish.
i have quite a few emotional stress drills i can hook you up with but i don't want to bore the wing chun group .
'so hit me later

[PaulH]

The best stress drill that I ever had is when I as a refugee fugitive had to run across the Vietnamese sand beach and swam to the anchored boat nearby under hails of AK47 bullets. I did not zig zag like in the movies, just straight to the boat. It was a miracle that I still live!

Regards,

[flaco]

hey ernie, i met you, and instantly related to you, and i respect you and your ideas, i wasnt trying to make you out to be paranoid. i hope you didnt take it that way.

as usual, we are on the same page, problem is, i was in that overload stress drill for 5 years, and thats why i was messed up when we met. physically i can train the way you stated, but my system was overloaded badly by mental stress, 15 of my close friends died over a short number of years, my mother got ill, relationships were affected, etc, i got it from all angles mentally.

so for me, my goals are a little different than yours, but when i find my personal solution, i will train much harder again. now with tcm college, thats way stressful also, so im bogged down, it also made me realize how important the internal training is, it is basically leftb out of most schools, but is key, in combat, or everyday life, but from my past training, its very hard for me to really put down the time to meditate, and stance train, etc.

you see even great fighters like vunak, broke down, had ulcers,etc, i feel because of the lack of training the inside also, also look at tyson,etc, maybe it even killed bruce lee. we all train our asses off, roll over in bed, thinking of what we did wrong in sparring,etc, the mind just keeps going, and we train to the max, the end result,is usually burn out, or taking drugs for pain, or drugs for stress, etc. so for me, at this time, im not on top of my game, but im still above average here where i live, and im focussing on the mind aspect. its sad to see great fighters, or martial artist die early, i never got to train with sulite, or lucay lucay, but both those guys were young also, and either diet or stress probably played a role.

anyway, while your still at full force, enjoy it, and stay healthy.

[Ernie]

flaco
you are human and life often test our will , i am not as heathy as you may think , i have been through , bursted appendix,broken leg,broken back, ribs , and collar bone ,
but it was this down time that makes me cherish the ability to move and feel alive when all the parts are working.
but the most important thing is balance to me , i train hard but i play hard as well and i spend time travelling , laughing , and experiencing as many new things as possible .
i really don't hardcore like the old days , i just keep things moving in a forward direction , but i hate wasting time , one dead or static situations were you just keep repeating that which you already have , it's like reliving the same old life instead of moving on to the next stage .
perhaps on day i'll pick your brain on the internal stuff , but my vain self keeps working on the external:D
i didn't take what you said in any negitive content , and i your right i got a real good vibe when we hung out . i'm looking forward to compareing concepts and training approaches in the days ahead .
as a matter of fact don't forget to tell me when your in town , i want to pass on some materiel to you and there is some one i really want you to meet , he is by far the best martial artist i know or have ever seen , real humble cat from back east , but mad skills and really understands attribute development .
peace

[flaco]

shame i didnt get to you earlier, my teacher,(li tailiang) just did a week long seminar at saddleback college in ca, from what i read on the net, the people were awed, he is by far the deadliest guy i have ever met, i wish you would have been able to check him out. he is into the internal, but is the real deal, no mystic b.s, or any b.s, chi demos,etc. you just feel his power when he touches you, he hits like a mule, and of the internal arts, xing i, taiqi, and bagua, xing i is the most external, and most proven in battle.
it resembles wc so much, but has different energy, has high and low stances,etc.the animal forms are like one movement, no jumping around like an animal, just like the power of that animal, like the horse, in a basic explanation, has these downward punches, like a horse hits with his hoof, and the punches with basic footwork is the animal form. so they are very practical, and extremely cool. im only a puppy at this art, but my wc backround helps alot.
i was very surpried when we recently did a 5 element fist drill, and it was like a lop uppercut,and gum uppercut, pretty much like wc.this was the wter element fist, and its got a circular energy like water, so besides the element names,its just practical stuff.

as far as your injuries, god bless your living good now, i had two broken ankles, collarbone, dislocated shoulder, and 3 herniated discs, and recently the diaphram injury, all from grappling, i used to think it was cool, that 240 lb guys werent able to tap me at 155 lbs, but over time, joints just broke down, and so did i, so like i said, im in a different place now,

i will be out there i think july 26, i have to fly to arizona for my wc test under augustine fong, i wish i could have tested under gary, but he wanted me to stay there for like a month, and i couldnt do it.im trying to get certified under a real good wc guy, i dont want to give my old teacher any credit, because i was missing so many pieces. anyway, we'll talk soon.

[Ernie]

wow ,
you take your certification serious , gary offered me cetifications to teach 2 of his there '' levels '' and the knives and i said no .
rather use the cash towards general training ,
didn't think much about at the time . maybe i should rethink it. is really that big a deal to be certified.
i also got offered a first level instructership in pfs under one of vunaks insrtructers but , passed on it as well ,
figured i got time for that stuff later .
i'll be in town when you come around so give me a call i'll hook you up with some vcd's you will like .

[flaco]

certification is only important for business, not fighting. if you can get certified by gary, do it. because when your out to teach and make money, people will not know ERNIE, but if they hear wong sheung leung, then gary, then ernie, maybe you will get alot more calls, also for out of state seminars, people pay good bucks, and need to know your certified, unless your a fighter in ufc or something. so, think it over.
i will look you up, take it easy.

[kj]

Originally posted by flaco
certification is only important for business, not fighting. if you can get certified by gary, do it. because when your out to teach and make money, people will not know ERNIE, but if they hear wong sheung leung, then gary, then ernie, maybe you will get alot more calls, also for out of state seminars, people pay good bucks, and need to know your certified, unless your a fighter in ufc or something. so, think it over.
i will look you up, take it easy.

Maybe lineage has a modicum of significance in certain circumstances after all. ;)

Regards,
- kj

[[Censored]]

i wish you would have been able to check him out. he is into the internal, but is the real deal, no mystic b.s, or any b.s, chi demos,etc.

Did he tell you chi demos are BS, or is this strictly your own interpretation? When you say he is "into the internal" what exactly do you mean?

you just feel his power when he touches you, he hits like a mule, and of the internal arts, xing i, taiqi, and bagua, xing i is the most external, and most proven in battle.

What does "xing i is the most external" mean exactly? How do you know it is proven in battle?

And most importantly, who would win: Royce or Yue Fei? ;)

[Ernie]

kathy
Maybe lineage has a modicum of significance in certain circumstances after all.
i respect what flaco is saying , and i respect the offer's i have had from my teachers but i'm my own person , if i should one day be blessed enough to have the ability and willingness to teach . it will be my own interpetaion of what i know , my own experiences , it is the only honest way i know how to approach it .
i will always give respect to those that have shared there experiences and lessons with me and but i will not take credit for there work.
i really don't feel anyone has the right to teach a combative art if they have not been combative [ it tends to get watered down or over technical] when they don't apply what the learn.
but when you run across those that do and have fighting experience you see how similar things get . the reak key elements start to come out .
so until i have walked the walk i would never give information to another human that might endanger there life [ un tested material ]
but really that is just self measure and by no means how the rest of the world should be viewed .
i have just run across alot of empty people with big cridentials and i would not want myself to become one of them.
flaco
my be in time after i feel i have tested and grown i will then have your wisdom but fo now i'm just a selfish bast ard on a mission to improve:D
but i do here what you and kathy are saying i'm just singleminded sometimes:D

[kj]

Originally posted by Ernie
i have just run across alot of empty people with big cridentials and i would not want myself to become one of them.

Hi again Ernie. I highly respect your perspective, and understand where you are coming from.

The flip side of the coin is that we ought to be equally careful about truth in advertising in other respects. For example, teaching our personal versions of "what's worked best for me" is no guarantee at all of teaching Wing Chun.

You were so right when you wrote (in another thread) that we are lucky if we find someone who excels in Wing Chun and has a verifiable application track record combined. Of course even these standards are fraught with respective ambiguities in definition and criteria. There is inevitably some dilemma, and perfect balance is rarely as easy or as perfect as it sounds.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Ernie]

kathy
Hi again Ernie. I highly respect your perspective, and understand where you are coming from.
ditto
your right if i were looking fo a paticular line of wing chun i would research the individual before i spent my time and money.
if i were inclined to become a teacher of that particular system.

but , and here goes ernie with his ''but'' again
the true progressions i have seen in cross training , espeacially kali and wing chun have been incredible . i don't mean the entire filipino system but there are drills that really bring out wing chun attribiutes faster then i have seen in wing chun drills . the catch is you got to have a good foundation in wing chun to pick out the gems . training with light weapons and bladed weapons makes super charges your sensitivity and reflex .
seeing this improve people time and time again i couldn't just pass on one or the other , so the what works best for me , kind of suits me at this time .
i am also a conditioning freak so again i couldn't leave out this knowledge and be honest with myself ,
that's why i don't have interest in being under one flag and were i have seen many that do don't evolve into there full potential.
so when i see people talking about this way or that way or my way or the highway,
it sends a red flag out to me.
but in the same token i have seen guys that have a multitude of styles and are just empty , they never had a good enough foundation in any particular system to base and measure there growth.
fun chatting with ya ,
just right me off as one '' those '' people:p