which is more challenging?

[foolinthedeck]

new topic.

which of these would be more challenging / difficult (also more rewarding etc) in your humble opinions??

1. going to a new wing chun class after having been at another for a fairly long period of time. Its still wing chun, but lets say that there are minor differences in the forms and techniques. This may be a problem as you feel that you cant unlearn what you already held to be 'correct', but your new sifu and fellow students tell you that you are doing it 'incorrectly'. Added to this, lets say that you dont get on with the sifu, its not that he is bad, but just that he doesnt suit you personally.

2. going to another Chinese Martial art class, lets say Taijiquan. The movements are new and different and there may be differences in footwork or concepts like the centreline which seem to go against the grain of what you have learned. Now the differences are greater, but at least the art is different too so you can differentiate the two. Added to this, lest say that the sifu is excellent and you get on well with him or her, and furthermore the sifu's teaching style suits you.

(can i just say that i am very happy with my present sifu for anyone who knows me, its just hypothetical)

[Phil Redmond]

To answer question #1.
I have experienced going from one WC style/version/lineage, whatever term is correct, after 13 years in the former. What I was told though was not forget what I'd previously learned but to compare the new information and to decide for myself. I get students from other WC schools and I simply show them how we do things and why. I don't get into telling people that what they learned before is wrong.

#2. I am presently learning Chen Tai Chi. The Sifu is more of a friend than Sifu. We talk openly about how some of the principles go against my WC training. For instance, he teaches that the wrist should be higher than the elbow, and the push hands leaves the centerline. I am able to keep the TCC separate from my WC though.
Phil

[S.Teebas]

For instance, he teaches that the wrist should be higher than the elbow,

What is the reason he gives for this?

[Atleastimnotyou]

Originally posted by S.Teebas


What is the reason he gives for this?


well, he is probably not teaching his own version of a bong sau. so, if you were to move your arm to where your elbow was high and your wrist was low, than that can break your connection or energy path. Unless you were to move your dan tien along with it. but then again, i don't know the situation he was talking about.

[Phil Redmond]

He studied White Crane in China before he learned Chen TC. We were discussing the similarities between WhtC and WC especially the bong sau which had the elbow higher than the wrist. He then mentioned that Chen teaches to keep the elbow below the wrist almost always. One reason he says it's easier to unbalance an opponent with the elbow down. He said there was another reason regarding chi. I am a complete beginner in Chen style TC so I'll ask him next class.

[Ernie]

good question
but the answer for me is simple i don't see any differnces in wing chun '' most of it is marketing and ego's ''
i look at it all through one filter [ does it work under pressure / will it work for me and my body type / is it worth taking the time to learn and develop vs. how often it may come up in a fight]
{simple }
as for other style
don't see other styles just body mechanics , you can talk to me all day and say this and that but when i see you move then i will see the truth.
{effective }
and even if the body mechanics are good are the effective in a street fight or are the just for show
{ direct }
this allows me to work out with many people of different walks of life develop friendships and not try and prove this or judge that .
it's all a matter of what i chose to do with the information.

[Marky]

Hi Foolinthedeck,

I'd go with option #3:

Work out on my own, practicing everything I learned, and being EXTREMELY self-critical (though that's a key to wing chun development anyway).

[foolinthedeck]

yeah,
i agree with you marky but i feel as if being so self critical may one day make me an arrogant and critical teacher - which has maybe happened to some present sifus, hence part of the question about choosing teachers.

the other thing is what i can afford which is nothing, so all i can do is post here for free and hope to catch some pearls of wisdom from the muddy waters of the wing chun forum.

[Marky]

Hi Foolinthedeck,

I've found that people are either arrogant or they aren't, whichever way they train. Generally, when you pick yourself apart each and every day, you develop some amount of humility, which will reduce arrogance. However, there are others that feel that their self-criticism can be halted when they become a "master" (if such a thing exists), and it's something to be proud of, and thus promotes arrogance. I'm not sure which is more of a common occurence.

Being self-critical will make you a more critical teacher, which is important (when the time comes). After a year or two of practice, a person should almost always be self-critical. As for those first one or two years, I've heard two schools of thought:

1. Don't be too critical, so that the student will not be bogged down by the semantics of the practice.

2. Start to teach critically after the first month or two. If the student is open to constant criticism, they'll make a good student. If they quit because they don't like having to go through the "boring" aspects of wing chun, then they'll probably quit in a year or two anyway (when the real challenges begin).

These are my opinions as a student.

[foolinthedeck]

very excellent opinions

quality.

i'm just an arrogant person so maybe i'd be a bad teacher, but then i know i'm so arrogant and will free admit it so maybe i'd be a good teacher.

also

i'm not as good as i think i am..

[yylee]

Many years ago I went visit an old WC master, he saw my forms and said to me that if I were to switch to his school, it would take me three years to correct my WC. At the time I didn't fully understand why he said this.

Years after that visit I did switch to a different WC lineage (but not the old master's). The amount of effort to unlearn and relearn WC is, I must say, enormous. Basically all forms are identical (well, 90% of them anyways), but the two underlying WC "engines" are very different from each other. Can't really go into details but the difference is really heaven and earth.

And it did take me more than 3 years to shake the old WC habbits. Not trying to put down my previous lineage here, but there truely are higher mountains above high mountains, higher heaven beyond heavens.

Is it rewarding? Definitely Yes, but the journey isn't easy.

[foolinthedeck]

yylee:
the problem is knowing at the time whether you will climb further towards heaven or follow a fake ridge that only leads downwards.

i mean, you could have spent 3 years unlearning and finding that the new school was worse couldnt you?

[yylee]

Originally posted by foolinthedeck
yylee:
the problem is knowing at the time whether you will climb further towards heaven or follow a fake ridge that only leads downwards.

i mean, you could have spent 3 years unlearning and finding that the new school was worse couldnt you?

ha ha, I guess I am not that stupid yet to have spent 3 years in the mountains but not knowing where I am. There are many GPS gadgets out there these days :) :) :)

If you learn WC long enough, you can tell heaven from earth with a single touch of hands. Thanks to the old WC master I mentioned before, he showed me that there are higher mountains out there.....

and the climb continues....

[foolinthedeck]

very true.

but then how often do you get to just touch hands with a sifu. some wont do this with every new student - and this could be interpreted as a bad sign or not.

also, some sifus have skill and so their hands will feel fine, but they cant actually teach it, and so that touch may mean nothing.

as for the mountains... if you walk with your eyes on you GPS acurate to the nearest 10 metres, you may still fall. The analogy again of not being blinkered in our wing chun

[yylee]

Originally posted by foolinthedeck
but then how often do you get to just touch hands with a sifu. some wont do this with every new student - and this could be interpreted as a bad sign or not.

these days, if newbies don't get enough hands-on with Sifu's, they won't stay.

It will be silly not to touch hands with new students, especially when idiot SiHing's like myself are around the kwoon talking nonsense, LOL!

[foolinthedeck]

very true again.
i bow to your wisdom

[yylee]

at ease :cool:

now practice your SNT, don't touch my hands till I say so ;)

[yuanfen]

yyes sir

blouse