What's this stuff about Lineage?

[RedSkaNite]

I just started Wing Tsun about two weeks ago. So far I am loving it! I see lots of instances on the general board about Wing Tsuners contantly fighting about "Lineage". Then I come over here and see none of it.

I am not even sure what they mean when they say this. Is there some big controversy? FYI, I believe the Grandmaster of my oraganization is named Leung Ting. At least I think that is who I bow to when class starts.

[PQS]

wellcome to WT I hope you continue to enjoy it
Regards
Peter

[Ng Mui]

Lineage, belts and sashes is often what one shows to prove his or her worth.
It should be skill.

[RedSkaNite]

I am just wondering what is going on, that's all.

[Savi]

Welcome RedSkaNite,
It was really a political debate that often times gets heated up due to misunderstandings and personal issues. I'm sure everyone has good intentions in some form or another, but this last debate really hit the bottom. Fortunately the moderators of this site came up with an excellent solution for everyone to abide by.

If I could make a recommendation, try and enjoy your training in the system first and ignore the political fighting between the families. That could ruin your interest in WT/WC/VT.

Happy training!

[zultan]

its pretty much who learned from this or that person.most of the wing chun in here comes from yip man,who taught lots of folks like william chueng,moy yat,hawkins cheung,leung ting, who went on to spread wing chun around.each of these people have their organizations and they all teach wing chun with their own flavor so you always have people who think that their lineage is best or they argue that this person didnt really learn from that person.its all politics and crap,if your teacher and school are good and your enjoying it thats all that matters.the forums are loaded with this stuff and i wouldnt take it seriously.with that said it isnt a bad thing to know some history about what your doing so go read some of leung tings books and also check out some other books too."COMPLETE WING CHUN" is a great book that will give you basic well rounded info on the art

[Ernie]

Lineage[/B] = marketing,pyrimid scams , and ego's
none of this is needed to learn and become a better fighter

[yuanfen]

Knowing who your teacher learned from and how long and how frequently and how competent was the training in wing chun
at those two levels- has nothing necessarily to do with pyramid schemes.

[Ernie]

skills talk
everything else is a history lesson , or hype , or there version of why theres is better .
teachers back grounds don't make them good and don't make you good unless your looking to be in some social club .
not everyone is a good teacher , some are better fighters ,or just technitions .
it's rare to find some one who has all three so if his [ or hers] skill is good , and they can express it to you , and they can teach it to you that is all that matters ,
the rest is crap.
unless your into the marketing and you want the certificate , the tee shirt , the tattoo etc...

the real background should be has this teacher ever had fight real experience, and does his teaching method produce good results

[kj]

Originally posted by Ernie
the real background should be has this teacher ever had fight real experience, and does his teaching method produce good results

Not a bad set of requirements, though as stated need not have anything at all to do with Wing Chun.

For those of us interested to practice and preserve Wing Chun other things may also matter. We don't all share values and reasons for practice in same degree.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Ernie]

kathyFor those of us interested to practice and preserve Wing Chun other things may also matter. We don't all share values and reasons for practice in same degree.
i guess the key word is preserve,vs progression
your right we all have our own reasons for training , what ever keeps people happy or from going postal.
but for me martial knowledge is for combat , or better put the skills one can develop to improve there odds in combat, so i keep things simple and use that as a filter.
also often times people get blinded by labels and logo's when there could be a common not flashy or well marketed teacher that has everything thing you might need but you wouldn't give him the time of day .
if a person can help you improve and understand , then that is criteia enough.
unless as you said kathy you are trying to preserve something .
then that has different requirements .
to each there own ,
i guess i should have saud if you want to learn how to fight find some one with fight experience,
if you wan't to learn how to practice and preseve wing chun find some one skilled at that
and if you find both then you are lucky.

[rubthebuddha]

redska -- the lineage arguments have taken place and aren't that common anymore. every now and then you'll see one pop up, but the references to them are more in jest than referring to an actual level of activity. about the only times we have them anymore is when rene makes a thread with academic interest in the possible histories of wing chun and someone finds it necessary to take a cheap shot at him or another contributor.

[Phil Redmond]

Are you Zultan from Hungary? If so send me an email. I tried to email you from here but wasn't allowed.
Phil

[reneritchie]

Those who said fighting has nothing to do with WCK are correct. Many great fighters don't know any WCK. WCK is just an approach to systematically improve fighting skill, or a way to spend some time moving around in a social setting, as you like it.

Preserving WCK for WCK's sake is like learning Apalachian folk pottery. It's obscure and not very socially redeeming (you could spend the same time at a food bank), but some people enjoy chess, quilting, medieval gaming, and other hobbies.

Compounding all this is the fact that you can have a great teacher and still su(k, or a su(ky teacher and turn out great.

No guarantees, and unfortunately, you typically only learn who to avoid by experiencing what should be avoided.

If you're really interested in a teacher, find out how well they teach, and whether or not they teach in a manner you find digestible (different teaching approaches suit different students needs). A good teacher should, ideally, be able to show, explain, analyze, and improve what you're doing in a reasonably expedient manner.

[RedSkaNite]

Oh no, I like my classes alot. I am having a blast. It got me interested in learning a bit more about Wing Tsun-the history and people of note. That is all.

[rubthebuddha]

red -- best i can suggest, particularly as one from the same family as you, is read what you see here, ignore the blather and anything insulting, pay attention when folks like rene, kj, yuanfen, hendrik, etc. talk about history, and try and count how many names have the word "whip" in them -- i think we're up to three now. ;)

on a side note, enjoy your wt training. i just got signed off on SG 10 and 11 on saturday after about 8½ of seminar-ly goodness with sifu lau ka sun. i have bruises on my bruises, and loved every minute of it.

[Savi]

I do not think that the combative competance of any particular person or lineage has anything to do with the validity of their family's fighting system. Reputation is different.

There is a huge difference between the fighting system and the individual using it.

[PQS]

Rubthebuddah
congratulations on SG10 & 11
I'm doing 3 trhis month,
you forgot to say pay attention to Ultimate Fighter, he is really missed lol
regards
Peter

[rubthebuddha]

pqs -- thanks for the congrats, and best wishes on your 3.