How do you do this part of the SLT?

[whippinghand1]

In the last parts of the SLT, there is a part that has an "up down up" sequence. For example, some people do a tan sau to centre, then a jut sau to centre, then another tan sau to centre for this section, which is before the bong-tan section. As another example, others might do the tans to the shoulderline...

So how exactly do you do the "up down up" section?

[rubthebuddha]

you'll hear answers all over the map on this one, but the one i know is tan (fingers to shoulder-width)-jum-gwat-tok-huen-lower palm-huen-retract.

[yuanfen]

shoot out the tan to the center- down to gan sao-
up to tan. then huen... then dai jang palm angling a
bit downwards and in..straighten palm- close fist- bring it back to the side.

[PaulH]

WH1,

WSL has 2 tan sections. You described the 1st. Joy the 2nd. The tan aims for the center in form though it is not wrong to go to the shoulder line as they are used for dispersing force from many possible angles.

Regards,

[fa_jing]

Some video was up on the net not too long ago with WSL performing both sections as PaulH stated. He looked quite crisp. Also both sections are included in William Chueng's "Advanced SLT." IMHO why some practice one or the other, who made the extra section up and why, etc, are all unimportant. Both are sets of Wing Chun movements and will improve your study whether practiced within, or outside of SLT.

[reneritchie]

Twist the hand up along the meridian line, drop it down the meridian line, twist it back up, circle it back down, drive the palm-edge out along the meridian line, close the hand, withdraw the fist.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by reneritchie
Twist the hand up along the meridian line, drop it down the meridian line, twist it back up, circle it back down, drive the palm-edge out along the meridian line, close the hand, withdraw the fist.


Rene,

This is sam pan jeong in YKS?


Guys/Gals,

what is this sections trains for:D

[old jong]

I was going to ask the guy how he was thinking of getting away using a "sacred" KFO name!....:D

[Wingman]

This is how I do it:

Tan sao-->gan sao--> tan sao--> huen sao-->palm strike-->huen sao-->close fist & bring it back to the side.

Notes:

1. The second tan sao is different from the first because the hand angles upwards; while in the first, the hand is parallel to the ground.

2. The palm strike angles upwards because it is aimed at the jaw.

[Phenix]

1. The second tan sao is different from the first because the hand angles upwards; while in the first, the hand is parallel to the ground.............






Different Tan Sau .....
Yap.
Because.... there are something there... what is the application?
Why the first "tan Sau" there?
Is it a Tan Sau?
is the second a Tan sau?

or we have mixed things up...
mixed things might means losing things....

[Wingman]

Originally posted by Phenix
Different Tan Sau .....
Yap.
Because.... there are something there... what is the application?
Why the first "tan Sau" there?
Is it a Tan Sau?
is the second a Tan sau?

or we have mixed things up...
mixed things might means losing things....

Yes, the "second tan sao" may not be a tan sao because its application is different than a "regular" tan sao. I don't know the correct term; so I called it a tan sao for lack of a better word.

This is the application of the "second tan sao":

When the opponent executes a front kick, you counter with a gan sao. Then from the gan sao, you raise your hand up in order to scoop up the opponent's leg & make him loose his balance. Raising the hand up from the gan sao position is the movement of the "second tan sao".

From the application described above, the "second tan sao" is not a tan sao.

Phenix,
Do you know the correct term for the "second tan sao"?

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Wingman


Yes, the "second tan sao" ....

Phenix,
Do you know the correct term for the "second tan sao"?


for me , Even the first tan sao is not a tan sau.

The whole sequence of this section is dealling with 6 direction of incoming force and 4 changes for each joins.....

This is the inheritant of White CRane from Fujian.
The DNA. The part in SLT which show the big picture about potential and application.

Before this part is the snake.... meaning one activate every join..... to cultivating the Emei's snake enginee...



But, that might be just me dreaming.:D

Can be right , can be wrong.... hahaha
that is the beauty of life... we have gone a long way ... hahaha

[Phil Redmond]

for me , Even the first tan sao is not a tan sau. ,
You say that WC comes from white crane. My TCC teacher just moved here from China and he also teaches white crane. He uses the same names as WC for tan, bong, gan.
Phil

[Stevo]

As I've learnt it (WSL style). Rotating or flipping tan sau, then jum sau (tri-directional movement), tan sau, huen sau, retract. Then as above for garn sau, starting with flipping tan sau.

[reneritchie]

Hendrik,

No, Saam Pan Jeung, or Triangle Palms, covers inside, outside, up and down with the single bridge arm going through the cycle of Tan, Chang (close to Pak), and Po Jung (close to Chum). In this SLT section, we're going through Tun (which is different from Tan), Po Jung, Tun, Huen, Dai Jeung. A variation.

[yuanfen]

Hi Hendrik-
I can understand the search for linguistic purity but ordinary language is nowhere near precise as the substance of the motion.
In your example - at the drive in- if you are not alert to the substance you may end up with Pepsi rather than Coke.( A plague on both of those infernal drinks...).

The real tan is in the first section of the slt---after that you have different tan family motions rather than the seed tan.

Wingman may be using the "pau sao" a lifting motion for his second tan- rather than a tan.


There are motions within motions in that section and you are right about the multi directional forces to contend with.

[yylee]

IMHO, the first Tan, we put the palm in front of the lower abdomin and sort of "shuffle" up and shoot the Tan Sau forward. We call this "Bil Tan". The second Tan, since it follows the Gaan and it is in the opponent's Ngoi Mun (inside gate), so I guess it uses the "Jang Dai" (elbow bottom) to control the opponent; while the first Tan may put more emphasis on the Yin side of the arm.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Phil Redmond
,
You say that WC comes from white crane. My TCC teacher just moved here from China and he also teaches white crane. He uses the same names as WC for tan, bong, gan.
Phil


Phil,

This part of SLT in this discussion in very very important. IT is a signature of White CRane embeded in the SLT.


To all,

The first "TAn" or palm 45 outward tan....." is the "Commanding Sun potential DNA " of White Crane WCK of Fujian. This is where the concept of modern day term "Jong or bai jong sau / man sau" comes in. This is the hand which generate the potential which can cover 6 direction or changes and the rest of the sequence is training or examples how it changes to cover down, up, left, right, inward, and outward. That is the Sucking, Spiting, floating, sinking......



That is also the reason why I never belive in TAN SAU NG or Southern Shao LIn myths./ legends......
It also differentiate Chee Sim WCK from Wing Chun Kuen.

Since this part of SLT also teaches ---using silence to over come action. it is similar to a spide sitting in the center of it's web and waiting for its pray to come from any direction... it is a major platform for "lay lau hui song...." the kuit..

That is White Crane DNA and can be find only in White Crane of fujian. Now, the key left then is how does YJKYM generate the power for this potential and why not our ancestors using San Chin stance ? or shao lin wider horse stance..... See, this particular sequence hidden the key of WCK is not just a Branch of White Crane of Fujian as Yang Chin-Ming comments. In addition, this Sun potential is a classical "hand" of White Crane which in the modern day some white crane people not familiar. Ngo Cho has also adopted this hand . Since Ngo Cho or the 5 ancestors pick this hand up in 1850 era.

Certainly, after releasing this, people of other style can adopt it and claim they have it too or modified their his story....

however, this pice was written in classic writing which is older then 1900. So, unless people who tries to modify his-story show prio-art.. I don't see they have a case at all.
I have been waiting for the historians to bring this point up, to write in magazine article,.... . but, they have never.
So, here I open another card on the table.... just a tip of the ice berg....

the above is IMHO. certainly one can think and believe what one likes..... it is a free world.

-----------------------------------------------------------
The Sun is rising, the night is over soon...... --- the order of the phoenix.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by yylee
IMHO, the first Tan, we put the palm in front of the lower abdomin and sort of "shuffle" up and shoot the Tan Sau forward. We call this "Bil Tan". The second Tan, since it follows the Gaan and it is in the opponent's Ngoi Mun (inside gate), so I guess it uses the "Jang Dai" (elbow bottom) to control the opponent; while the first Tan may put more emphasis on the Yin side of the arm.

YY,

look at the sun and its position in the galaxy. don't miss the galaxy.:D

Certainly, it is difficult to know when to see the sun, when the galaxy, when to notice how the sun spin.....

Not easy at all....

[yylee]

Originally posted by Phenix


YY,

look at the sun and its position in the galaxy. don't miss the galaxy.:D

Certainly, it is difficult to know when to see the sun, when the galaxy, when to notice how the sun spin.....

Not easy at all....

guess I need one of these to find out! :D

[mun hung]

tan (fingertips to top of head, wrist in center, arm at about 120 degrees covering top of ribs to the entire head) - gong (wrist still on centerline) - tan (twisting forwards) - huen (drawing back at end of movement) - palm strike (to floating rib) - pak upwards (arm slightly bent) - heun - grab to closed fist - rechamber the fist.

If memory serves - my SiFu had mentioned that he had originally learned it as
tan - jum - tan - heun - palm strike - heun - grab - retract

Can't remember the sequence really well but I believe that was the way that Lok Yiu taught him. I was also told that Yip Man was the one who changed jum to gong.

Wingman - have you ever tried the front kick application you mentioned? IMO - sounds great in theory.

[Wingman]

Originally posted by mun hung
Wingman - have you ever tried the front kick application you mentioned? IMO - sounds great in theory.

Yes, I've tried it when I occasionally spar with my TKD friend. He loves to kick; and the application I mentioned is perfect against kicks from the waist up.

It is not as easy as I've described though. You have to have good timing, and you have to move forward when executing it. If you just stand there and execute gan sao & raise your arm; you might not be able to lift his leg. You'll find that his leg is too heavy to lift. That's why you have to move forward to make him loose his balance. When he is off-balanced, it is now easy to lift his leg.

[Stevo]

Originally posted by Stevo
As I've learnt it (WSL style). Rotating or flipping tan sau, then jum sau (tri-directional movement), tan sau, huen sau, retract. Then as above for garn sau, starting with flipping tan sau.

Opps, omitted a bit (in brackets)...

Rotating or flipping tan sau, then jum sau (tri-directional movement), short tan sau, huen sau, (...low side-palm strike, flip hand up, huen sau while raising arm, grab...), retract.