Black Tiger Cross

[mantis108]

I think it was Bungda07 who asked about this 7 Stars intermediate form? I think there are 2 books that have this form. One of these books is Sifu Lee Kam Wing's "Secret of Seven-Star Mantis Style". There is also one version of the same form listed in Sifu Lam Wing Kit's "Shandong Tanglang Quanshu" p.64-p.65 but there is no picture available. The entire form on LKW's book is on page 168-174 (including pictures). Some applications are shown on p. 175-178 (also included pictures). In Lee's version the form totals at 33 moves while Lam's version version totals at 37 moves. By compare LKW and LWK's versions, there is a very interesting difference between the Beng Chui and Di Puchan sequence up to the lower and upper Zuo Zhang (filing palm). In Lam's version there is a technique that is called Shaui Lu Liang Fun, which is also one of the 8 hards of PM. It seems to me that Lee's version, on the other hand, has a hammer fist in 7* stance instead. Lee's verison goes into a mo pan zhang (mill stone palm) before the Beng chui and kick while Lam's version is right hiking stance elbow, beng chui, and low puchan before the kick. Other similar yet different details are found in the two versions as well. Personally, 2 versions are definitely the same form but with slight variants of techniques in certain sections making the form seem more interesting than meets the eyes.

Technique wise, there is no doubt that both versions have something to offer. Looking at Lam's version, I have a feeling that it is quite likely a ling side oriented form. On the other hand, Lee's version's would be harder to do as a ling form (not that it can't be done). Regarding the applications that Lee showed, I would prefer some different angles of attack so that the readers can get a broader veiw of how to counter various angle with the same techniques. For example, The claping with chest-piercing kick, I feel would be much more interest if it is shown with preceeding move - the Gwai Tung chui in 7* stance. This way we can a better picture of how the moves flows together. Of course, this is just my opinion and is by no means a critcism. I think our community is fortunate to have Sifu Lee Kam Wing to share his knowledge openly. BTW, it seems to me that the Black Tiger Cross form is among Sifu Lee's favorites. I happen to like that form too yet I would be more inclined to work with Lam Wing Kit's version since there might be a full length ling side possibility.

I hope that more of the 7 Stars folks here would contribute your thoughts.

Mantis108

PS the Zuo Zhang Fan Che sequence is also my favorite.

[Young Mantis]

Mantis108,

There is also a book by Master Yuen Man Kai, student of WHF, on this form. I believe he calls it Black Tiger Intersectional Boxing. I do not have any of the books in front of me at the moment but I have seen Sifu Lee Kam Wing's version and it is different from the WHF version. For the movement you describe as:

Lee's verison goes into a mo pan zhang (mill stone palm) before the Beng chui and kick while Lam's version is right hiking stance elbow, beng chui, and low puchan before the kick.
Ours is the way you describe for Lam's version. I will comment further when I have all the materials in front of me to compare.

YM

[German Bai Lung]

Hi there,

the Applikation of the "Ha Fu Gau Tsa Kuen" does work in any angle! And thats a must be! But to show any Applikation in any angle would fill more than one book, I think! ;)

But it doesn´t matter, if your opponent attacks with left or right and so on. Sifu Lee always shows applikations more than one time, and never with the same attacking technique!

For naming the "Ha Fu Gau Tsa Kuen" sifu Lee´s favourite: no, it is not! It´s the Form he teaches most (because he teaches it in the children class!) but not prefered! He prefers: Tong Long Chot Dung Kuen and Sam Tzit Guan Doi Choeng (Three sectional Staff against Speer).

To my disappointment I got no Book of Wong Fan Hungs or Lam Wing Kit´s "Black Tiger Cross" so I can´t write anything to the Diffrences.. maybe someone is so kind to send me one? ;)

[NPM]

I learned the Hahk Fu Gow Tsah Form a long time ago and before Sifu Lee Kam Wing published his book. Later one of my students showed me his book and told me that Hahk Fu Gow Tsah was shown within it but I did not go over it in detail. I had never heard until tonight while I was reading KFO, that this form had different versions within the Law, Gwong Yook lineage.

So tonight, by curiosity, I went over my archives and found a Hong Kong magazine from 1975 showing this form. The article was written by Lee, Gwok Sing who was a student of Wong, Gum Hung. Wong, Gum Hung, who taught in Penang, Malaysia, was a disciple of Law, Gwong Yook and a si-hing to Wong, Hon Funn. Photos of Sifu Lee performing the form accompanied the article.

Hahk Fu Gow Tsah as shown by Lee, Gwok Sing is the same as the version I learned from my Sifu. This form has a logical sequence and has a ling form that accompanies it just like Bung Bo, Daw Ghong, Sup Baht Sao, Tsahp Tchoy, etc. I am surprised that there is a different version within the LGY lineage.

NPM

[mantis108]

Hi Young Mantis,

Thanks for the input. I understand there is another Book on this form and I believe it would be the one that you mentioned. Do you have it in your archives? It is similar to Lam's Quanpu or more like Lee's? Anyway, I am looking forward for your further input. :) Thanks

Hi German Bai Lung,

Thank you for the interesting information. I find it interesting that Sifu Lee Kam Wing teaches this form most to the children class. It wound be nice to know the rationale behind teaching this form. I am sure the book or any documentation be it video or what not could possibly represent a master's skill let along teaching skills. I have very high respect for his work.

Hi NPM,

Wow, I am very glad that another article about this form existed. Also, a ling form is available with this form sounds to me logical. Are these information available on that article? Is there a background story to this form? I appreciate any input and insight on this form. Thank you. :)

Hi Sifu Cottrell,

Thanks for the clarification. I agreed that evolution is natural. Ages ago, people don't have the technology and/or means to allow information exchange freely. Time wasn't kind neither. It caused a lot of problem and fueled lineage wars. That's why I believe we need to have transparency within our PM community in order to create a tighter bond among various systems. The growth of Praying Mantis Kung Fu would be quite phenomenal if we can achieve that. I don't want to sound like a sale pitch but seriously, I believe Mantis Quarterly is a perfect aide in this matter. Anyway, keep up the great work. My friend. :)

Warm regards

Mantis108

[NPM]

Originally posted by mantis108
Hi NPM,

Wow, I am very glad that another article about this form existed. Also, a ling form is available with this form sounds to me logical. Are these information available on that article? Is there a background story to this form? I appreciate any input and insight on this form. Thank you. :)


Mantis108,

The article in the Hong Kong magazine I have does not come with much of an explanation of the form. It only introduces Sifu Lee, Gwok Sing as a student of Wong, Gum Hung. It includes the photos for the enitre form. There is not much information.

NPM