pullups - triceps sore?

[fa_jing]

I'm noticing that the next day after my EDT pullup training, my triceps are usually sore. I know that there is some triceps involvement in the pullup, but enough to make them sore? I'm not doing any pushing on the pullup days. Is my form off, or is this normal?

[Becca]

Pull-ups don't work the biseps. They work the triseps. Chin-ups work the biseps better but it still focusses on the triseps. Use free weights and hand-stand push-ups to work biseps.


I'm not doing any pushing on the pullup days
Triceps don't push in this format, they help controll the pull. Your pectorals are actually doing most of the work.

Try doing some stretching afterward to keep them from aching too bad. If they hurt (read sharp or stabbing pain) stop doing them for a while 'cause you injured something.

[IronFist]

Pull-ups don't work the biseps. They work the triseps.

What??? The triceps extend the arm. They come into play when you must extend your arm under tension. Where in a pull up are you extending your arm under tension?

Chin-ups work the biseps better but it still focusses on the triseps.

Um, no, it doesn't focus on the triceps at all.

Use free weights and hand-stand push-ups to work biseps.

Wow, neither of those works the biceps.

Alright. Triceps are on the bottom (or back) of your upper arm. Biceps are on the top (or front, depending on how your arm is).

Pulling motions, like pullups or chinups, work the biceps and back. Pushing motions, like bench or hand stand pushups, work the triceps and pecs, although handstand pushups don't work the pecs too much, they hit the triceps and shoulders a lot.

IronFist

[Becca]

What??? The triceps extend the arm. They come into play when you must extend your arm under tension. Where in a pull up are you extending your arm under tension?

You are extending your arm under tention while lowering yourself. Assuming you are doing them correctly, that is. If you just let yourself fall back down you aren't, but you will hurt yourself doing this.

The pecs and shoulders are what propel you up, wether you kip or dead-hang. The biseps are only minimally used, hence my statment that pull-ups don't work them. Chin-ups change the way you are working your upper body a bit, and bring the bisep into play more, but the focus is still on the triseps and pecs.


Wow, neither of those works the biceps.

I take it you have never done arm curles with free weights? How about military press? Single arm extentions over the head? All of those, pluss many more, work the biseps very well.

Handstand push-ups work the biseps by the same principal that pull-up work the triseps. You are doing a controlled retraction of the arm under presure. This excersize is good for the whole upper body, in fact. It works every major muscle group and helps your ballence and stabalizers.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Becca


You are extending your arm under tention while lowering yourself. Assuming you are doing them correctly, that is. If you just let yourself fall back down you aren't, but you will hurt yourself doing this.



No, this doesn't hit the triceps primarily. It's eccentric contraction so it hits the same muscles as you use going up, with is primarily the biceps and the triceps help a bit.




I take it you have never done arm curles with free weights? How about military press? Single arm extentions over the head? All of those, pluss many more, work the biseps very well.


Yeah, an arm curl does. A military press works the triceps because it's extending the arm.



Handstand push-ups work the biseps by the same principal that pull-up work the triseps.


No, handstands work the triceps in the same way that the military press does.

There's more that's wrong but these are the main things, I think.

[abobo]

Grab a light weight and pull it toward your body with one arm. With your free hand, feel your bicep on the way up and down. Then feel the tricep.

It's not the exact same thing as a pullup, but it's still a pulling motion. And the point is, your bicep is still contracted on the way down.

[fa_jing]

I think that it doesn't have to do with extending your arm. I think that it has to do with pulling back like that exercise some people do were they lean over and do triceps extensions - only without the extension part. I've read that pullups do work one "head" of the triceps but I don't remember the reference. Obviously there is more stress on the biceps, lats, and forearms, although I think there is definitely pectoral involvement too. For instance if my pecs are already sore, the soreness increases after doing pullups.

PS I don't think that military press works the biceps hardly if at all.

[abobo]

Yeah, when doing pullovers I've gotten sore in the triceps nearer the armpit.

Which makes sense because keeping your arm extended over your body is an isometric exercise in itself.

The triceps play a part in stabilizing when you do pullups. Exrx agrees with me there, and I'm going to try to reason through it:

Depending on how fast the 'up' motion is, the triceps will activate as you come to a rest at the top, keeping you from overstretching at the elbow joint.

Also, I would guess that if your motion isn't an exact straight line, or if one side is pulling harder than the other, you exert a force on the bar to stabilize which could again activate the triceps.

Kind of like standing up on a bus and holding the bar for balance.

Anyway, these kinds of things would come into play more when you do more sets as in EDT.

[IronFist]

Becca said:

You are extending your arm under tention while lowering yourself. Assuming you are doing them correctly, that is. If you just let yourself fall back down you aren't, but you will hurt yourself doing this.


No, in lowering yourself under tension it is still the biceps that are resisting gravity's pull on your body.

The pecs and shoulders are what propel you up, wether you kip or dead-hang.

In pullups? Absolutely not.

The biseps are only minimally used, hence my statment that pull-ups don't work them.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Chin-ups change the way you are working your upper body a bit, and bring the bisep into play more, but the focus is still on the triseps and pecs.

Chin-ups don't work the triceps or pecs at all.

I take it you have never done arm curles with free weights? How about military press? Single arm extentions over the head? All of those, pluss many more, work the biseps very well.

Military press does not work the biceps at all.

Handstand push-ups work the biseps by the same principal that pull-up work the triseps. You are doing a controlled retraction of the arm under presure.

Yes, it is a controlled retraction of the arm under pressure. However, in a handstand pushup, even when you're going down the triceps is still working to resist gravity. Otherwise, you would fall down on your head.

Let me explain a basic anatomy principal here.

Muscles can contract concentrically and eccentrically.

Take a dumbell curl with a moderate amount of weight. Start with your arm straight. As you curl the weight up, your biceps is doing all the work (i know there are other muscles involved, like forearms, but ignore those for now). During this motion, the biceps is shortening, and it is therefore a concentric contraction.

Now, you're lowering the dumbell. The biceps is still doing 100% of the work. The triceps is not working, even though the arm is extending, because there is no force being applied against it (in other words, there is no force preventing the arm from extending). The biceps, extending as it is contracting, is performing an eccentric contraction.

This is based on gravity. Gravity is pulling the dumbell down, so your biceps has to fight against gravity in order to curl the weight upward. That same biceps has to fight gravity in order to lower the weight slowly, as well.

This is why bench press, for example, only works the pecs, triceps, and anterior (front) deltoids. It is also why pullups do not work the triceps or pecs.

If you have questions or need something cleared up feel free to ask.

There are reasons why your triceps might get sore doing back exercises and such, but let's not worry about them now. The key point is that pullups are primarily a back and biceps exercise, and, if done properly, will not engage the triceps or pecs at all, even if you go down as slowly as possible.

IronFist

[Serpent]

I agree with Ironfist almost completely. The only thing that I would add is that a chin-up does work the pecs a bit because it's hard to do a chin-up without isometrically contracting the pecs.

Just for clarity:

Concenctric contraction = muscle shortens while contracting
Eccentric contraction = muscle lengthens while contracting
Isometric contraction = muscle stays the same length while contracting

[IronFist]

Serpent, yeah, the pecs do isometrically contract when you do a pullup, but I didn't mention it because it doesn't help pull you up at all (I'm talking literally and basically here, I'm not talking about irridiation or whatever it's called).

IronFist

[Serpent]

Fair enough - I only mention it because people will feel it when doing chin ups (especially if they've recently worked their chest) so I wanted to clarify.

[IronFist]

Hmm, I've never felt it in my chest, but maybe it's cuz I try to pull my elbows down and back and not inward.

I dunno.

But man, we're awesome :D

IronFist

[Serpent]

We sure are.

:)

[rubthebuddha]

"and remember, on a scale of one to awesome, i'mmm super-great." :p

[fa_jing]

Right, I do pull my elbows in a bit when I do pullups. Also if you remain vertical, I think this is a natural tendency.

[Serpent]

BTW, just to confuse things a bit, a wide grip pull up with the palms facing away is actually targetting the brachialis more than the biceps (due to the pronated grip). Could this be causing some confusion?

Anyway, the topic's gone kinda dead, so maybe we'll just leave it there...

*shrug*