Did Bush Lie? about 9/11

[Internal Boxer]

I don't have an opinion on this either way, its just food for thought and it would be interesting to see if the comments made by Bush are genuine and not mis-information. Anyway -enjoy


www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...0011204-17.html

"Bush was talking about what happened on September 11th and how he heard of the atrocities in New York. If you remember, Bush was at a school in Florida where he was taking part in a photo opportunity, which included reading a story about a pet goat to a class of children. The media around the world told us, from White House statements, that Bush heard of the twin tower attacks when his chief of staff, Andrew Card, spoke in his ear in the classroom as he addressed the children. There was the famous picture of Card leaning over Bush accompanied by headlines like: The Moment Bush Knew.

But Bush told the Florida town meeting a very different story. This is what he said about what happened that morning in answer to a question by someone named Jordan:

"Well, Jordan, you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my Chief of Staff, Andy Card -- actually, I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on. And I used to fly, myself, and I said, well, there's one terrible pilot. I said, it must have been a horrible accident. But I was whisked off there, I didn't have much time to think about it. And I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my Chief of Staff, who is sitting over here, walked in and said, "A second plane has hit the tower, America is under attack."

THIS IS STAGGERING - THERE WAS NO LIVE TELEVISION COVERAGE OF THE FIRST PLANE HITTING THE TOWER - HOW COULD THERE BE?? THE FOOTAGE OF THE FIRST CRASH WAS TAKEN BY ONLOOKERS AND SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS AND DID NOT AIR FOR HOURS AND DAYS AFTER IT HAPPENED. THERE WAS LIVE COVERAGE OF THE SECOND CRASH, OF COURSE, BUT NOT OF THE FIRST - SO HOW ON EARTH CAN THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES CLAIM TO A PUBLIC MEETING TO HAVE SEEN IT LIVE ON A TELEVISION OUTSIDE THE CLASSROOM WHERE HE WAS WAITING TO ADDRESS THOSE CHILDREN?? AND WHY HAS NO NEWS ORGANISATION OR "JOURNALIST" PICKED UP THIS FANTASTIC LIE?

And what about that statement about "there's one terrible pilot". What?? A passenger jet crashes into one of the twin towers full of people and all the President of the United States can say is "there's one terrible pilot"!! And then he walks into a classroom to read a story about a pet goat?? God help us. "There's one terrible pilot"? We are not talking a light plane flown by an amateur, but a commerical airliner and even if it had not been a terrorist outrage, it would still have been an enormous tragedy requiring the leadership of the US president. But of course none of this tissue of lies by Bush could have happened because he could not possibly have seen the first crash on live television because there was no live coverage."

[Internal Boxer]

In addition:


"As Associated Press reported on September 12th: "In Sarasota, Florida, Bush was reading to children in a classroom at 9:05 a.m. when his chief of staff, Andrew Card, whispered into his ear. The president briefly turned somber before he resumed reading. He addressed the tragedy about a half-hour later. "

"Briefly" remained somber?? He's just been told that the New York twin towers have been struck by commercial airliners. Death and destruction on a massive scale was already obvious and the President was "briefly somber" before continuing to read a children's story? Bush told the town meeting:

"But I knew I needed to act. I knew that if the nation's under attack, the role of the Commander-in-Chief is to respond forcefully to prevent other attacks from happening. And so, I've talked to the Secretary of Defense; one of the first acts I did was to put our military on alert."

BUT HE COULD NOT HAVE TALKED TO THE SECRETARY OF DEFENCE UNTIL HE FINISHED THE GOAT STORY AND LEFT THE CLASSROOM AND ONLY THEN DID HE PUT AMERICA ON ALERT. HOW MUCH CRUCIAL TIME WAS LOST THAT COULD HAVE PREVENTED, FOR INSTANCE, THE ATTACK ON THE PENTAGON, WHICH HAPPENED 40 MINUTES AFTER THE SECOND TOWER WAS HIT?"

[chen zhen]

U also posted this in the other thread?

It would also mean that bush already knew about the attack before entering the classroom, and that he only saw it as a big event when he heard it was an attack, not an accident.

And what tv? why would there be a tv on outside the classroom? other people would have seen it on tv other than him, and would have stopped Bush's speech before he would enter the classroom, seeing it as more important. Would'nt you think?
There's obviously something fishy with his statements.

[Internal Boxer]

"U also posted this in the other thread?" Sorry I did not know it was illegal. But to be honest I find the whole thing Bizarre, even if Bush did say what he said it does not make a conspiracy theory true, it just means what I have always thought he is a thick cu.nt, I can never work out why Yanks elect presidents with little intelligence, look at Ronald Reagan, the guy was senile!

[GLW]

Spin Control???

The link posted above comes up with a notice that the page has been removed....


Or just old news???

[MasterKiller]

I can never work out why Yanks elect presidents with little intelligence, look at Ronald Reagan, the guy was senile! Maybe, but he still made Margaret Thatcher his beyotch.

[Internal Boxer]

Mate no one could have made her their bi.tch, she simple was a bi.tch, she was not of this earth, and why would anybody want to anyway? lets say that he did, then there's all the proof you need of senility!!!;)

[Internal Boxer]

"Spin Control???

The link posted above comes up with a notice that the page has been removed....


Or just old news???"

What The Fu.ck. Sh.it man thats pretty scary, it was working when I posted it, now it ain't??? (I posted it about 2 hours ago)

Now I am not one for conspiracys and all that Bull s**** but that is fu.ckin weird.

[MasterKiller]

Mate no one could have made her their bi.tch, she simple was a bi.tch, she was not of this earth, and why would anybody want to anyway? lets say that he did, then there's all the proof you need of senility!!! I went to one of her speeches in 1994. She had a commanding presence. Afterward, I would have done her.;)

[chen zhen]

>"U also posted this in the other thread?" Sorry I did not know it was illegal.<

I just asked, because I remembered i had read your post before in the other thread. Just wanted to make sure, easy now.:)

[Merryprankster]

Internal Boxer--I was on a Counterterrorism watch floor when the first plane hit the WTC. The initial reports for about the first 15 minutes were that it was NOT a terrorist attack. Don't ask me why.

[Jowbacca]

MP

You give these wankers waaaay too much.

If they want to hate the US they're gonna.

You know any valid evidence provided, counter to their vitriol, will be considered "fake", a "gloss over", or a "conspiracy".

Next thing you know, they're calling you an untrustworthy person because you're part of the "system".

Evil Empire makes a better story than the intricacies of the reality.

Dark, smokey, back room conspiracies using an "idiot" as a puppet to dupe the world for it's own selfish goals appeals more to anger, distrust, and a penchant for the dramatic than what's really going on.

I often love reading your counterpoints, they're a breath of fresh air. Amazing how you juggle releasability. But to be honest; I don't see how you can waste so much energy on people who've already got their minds made up.

[MasterKiller]

Jowbacca,

You got spare change for a one? (http://freemasonwatch.freepress-freespeech.com/onedollarbill.html)














:D

[chen zhen]

Mr. T 4 president! (http://www.i-mockery.com/goodpics/11.asp)

:p

"I don't see how you can waste so much energy on people who've already got their minds made up."

Strangely enough, I feel the same way..:rolleyes:
I don't believe in conspiracies, only reality.

[Jowbacca]

Lemme guess...
you're one of them "Church of the Jedi" folks...
or maybe you speak Klingon...
seen any flyin saucers cletus?


Am I the only person here who remembers when it was just a game?!?
http://www.sjgames.com/illuminati/
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Illuminati/

:D

[rogue]

Internal Boxer--I was on a Counterterrorism watch floor when the first plane hit the WTC. The initial reports for about the first 15 minutes were that it was NOT a terrorist attack. Don't ask me why. Trying not to think about the unthinkable I guess. It was obvious that the pilot wasn't trying to miss the towers.
But of course none of this tissue of lies by Bush could have happened because he could not possibly have seen the first crash on live television because there was no live coverage. Well I walked away from the TV to make some quick calls, came back just in time to see the second one hit. I thought it was film of the first attack or a graphic until it registered. Bush could have seen the same thing.

[Internal Boxer]

Jowbacca

"You give these wankers waaaay too much.

If they want to hate the US they're gonna.

You know any valid evidence provided, counter to their vitriol, will be considered "fake", a "gloss over", or a "conspiracy".

Next thing you know, they're calling you an untrustworthy person because you're part of the "system".

Evil Empire makes a better story than the intricacies of the reality."

Awww bless mummy's little soldier!!

Mate I think youre somewhat confused. First I like the US and it s citizens. I saw that material on a web site and thought it would be interesting for others to read, sorry if it offends you, but chill out mate you may live longer.

But as I said before if you had actually bothered to read my post, I wrote "I don't have an opinion on this either way, its just food for thought and it would be interesting to see if the comments made by Bush are genuine and not mis-information. Anyway -enjoy "


Merry P


Thats interesting inside knowledge, can you offer anymore information of what went on in the counter terrorist floor while you were there on 9/11??

[chen zhen]

U should'nt bother yourself, Internal Boxer. Most of the people that will reply on a thread like, this are locked in a certain mode of thought, where they have to defend the US's foreign-political actions with insults and prejudist jokes, because they think the critique is especially pointed towards them.
Sorry dude, but you will waste a lot of precious time explaining things, because they just won't understand. I know I have wasted my time.

[MasterKiller]

I know I have wasted my time. Ditto. You wasted a lot of my time, too.

[chen zhen]

I guess we would be even, if you had just tried to explain your own viewpoints, instead of being an A-hole. At least I TRIED.

[David Jamieson]

a politician who lies? why i never....:rolleyes:

yes, they are all lying, coniving, deceptive and all that other bad stuff.

There are 0 honest politicians in the world, it is an innate trait of the politician to lie, misinform and disinform.

Bush is no different in that sense. Frankly, my own prime minister is one of the worst cases of liars!

scrap the gst my butt!

if people would just take responsibility for their own actions we wouldn't need these idiots in positions of power and we'd all have more money in our pockets.

cheers

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by chen zhen
I guess we would be even, if you had just tried to explain your own viewpoints, instead of being an A-hole. At least I TRIED.


Originally posted by chen zhen
It just shows that America may not be as great a country as they want it to look like. Can't even save it's own citizens, how can they then start saving other countries?
A paradox.

That's a real good, reasonable argument you started off there with, CZ. Before you start slinging mud, look in the mirror.

My point is that we have, on numerous occassions, saved plenty of lives in other countries. In fact, we probably saved a few Danish ones.

[Chang Style Novice]

The fact of lying isn't what's most important. It's what kind of lies that they tell.

[David Jamieson]

My point is that we have, on numerous occassions, saved plenty of lives in other countries. In fact, we probably saved a few Danish ones.

It is as valid that 'you' have taken as many or more lives than 'you' have saved.

I don't agree with the zionist ideal that america should be global policeman. It is not mature ideologically or from a world view enough to be able to do this effectively.

cheers

[MasterKiller]

It is as valid that 'you' have taken as many or more lives than 'you' have saved. Whatever.


I don't agree with the zionist ideal that america should be global policeman. It is not mature ideologically or from a world view enough to be able to do this effectively.I don't think we should either. But you guys bltch if we remain isolationist, then bltch when we come in to help. If you could help yourself, you would. You can't, so don't resent us when you call for help.

[chen zhen]

Read this, especially the last sentence. (http://henrikc.dk/militaryvehicles/ww2/ww2.htm), which is this: "Denmark was not accepted as one of the Allied countries by the end of the war. USA and United Kingdom did however in August 1944 inform the Soviet government that if their forces crossed the Danish border they would regard Denmark as an Allied nation."


And then an excerpt from this website:http://www.mydanishroots.com/history/history3.htm

And I quote:
"Most of Denmark was liberated by British troops May 5, 1945. The Island of Bornholm were 'liberated' a few days later, however the real liberation did not come before the Russian troops left the island in 1946."


We where liberated, but by the British, who where organisers of most of the resistance groups, which you may call "terrorists" in these pre-9/11 times.
American soldiers never sat their foot on Danish ground during WW2.
Know your history, before starting to use it as an argument.

[David Jamieson]

Whatever.

That is typical when confronted with the bitter reality.

Have you read the Bush doctrine by the way?

cheers

[chen zhen]

KL, beware of using the word "zionism" in this connection, this may start the outbreak of a flamewar, and will complicate things.

[Chang Style Novice]

Really. You don't want to attract all those nutty Matrix-obsessed yahoos into the mix!:D

[Laughing Cow]

MK.

Didn't George Washington say anything to the effect that the USA should stay out of conflicts with the "old" nations in europe?

As for you guys bailing us out always, looks like the US will soon come beging to NATO and the UN to help you guys out with your current probs in Iraq.

[MasterKiller]

We where liberated, but by the British, who where organisers of most of the resistance groups, which you may call "terrorists" in these pre-9/11 times.Sure, but you think if we would have stayed out of it that the Brits would have been able to help you?

I'm not saying we fought the whole war single-handed. But you were getting your @sses handed to you pretty firmly before we stepped in.

I'm absolutely no Bush supporter, and I would prefer a more isolationist role in world affairs. But for us to do that, other countries have to step up to the plate. Look how hard it was for China to put pressure N. Korea. N. Korea should not be our problem, but no one else would assume responsibility, so here we go again.


That is typical when confronted with the bitter reality.Also the same reaction when confronted by severe naïveté.

[Merryprankster]

Actually folks, there is a very real, and very simple difference between terrorists and freedom fighters.

Freedom fighters engage enemy forces and official targets. Civilian casualites are occasionally incurred but are not the actual target and usually they try to avoid killing civilians.

Terrorists intentionally target non-combatants.

[Jowbacca]

IB

Before I get misunderstood again and get sucked into contributing to anymore of these arguments, I was talking to MP. He's been posting double time to put some accurate info out there; connecting dots for people; all the while doing it with one hand tied behind his back.

Arguing with people who've already made up their minds is a fruitless endeavor and it's a shame to see him expend so much energy to share so much. But then again, a MMA guy who comes on a kung fu chat board is already familiar with such pursuits in the first place. :D

I could understand takin offense if I named you by name...

And why'd you have to go and bring my momz into this?

[Budokan]

It's very possible Shrub saw news coverage of the first plane that had hit the first tower. (And yes, Virginia, most schoolrooms now have televisions in them.) Many of the cable news programs interrupted with live shots of the smoking tower after the plane had hit (I was watching Imus in the Morning at the time), and from those shots it did look like only a small plane had hit in comparison to the huge size of the tower. Unfortunately, that angle that was shown was not from the initial impact point but around the corner of the building where the damage didn't look all that bad.

Then Shrub goes into the classroom to read a goat story to the kiddies. Naturally, the goat story had been translated into phonetically correct script so Shrub could actually read it without having to strain his second grade reading skills with tough words like "grass" "horns" and "sunshine".

And frankly, you seriously can't hammer Shrub for getting the context of the story wrong. I mean, c'mon. No one for a minute thinks this guy is a mental giant anyway so it's not out of the realm of possibility that while he's giving his answer to "Jordan" he messes up the entire story. You're expecting WAY too much from this guy. Give him a break. He's doing the best he can with his limited mental capacity. He serves well enough as a figurehead for the neo-con chicken-hawk cabal that holds the power in our government and that's all that is necessary. He's not supposed to solve tensor equations.

My lasting image of him with the kiddies is when he's told that America is under attack and we see his face. It's not a look of surprise that wipes away his "I'm-better-than-you" smirk, it's one of gut-wrenching realization that he'd been forewarned America could be attacked in a previous security meeting.

[norther practitioner]

There are 0 honest politicians in the world, it is an innate trait of the politician to lie, misinform and disinform.

Why don't you just get up on your soap box. I know personally, actually very personaly a few very, very honest political figures.




It is as valid that 'you' have taken as many or more lives than 'you' have saved.

There is no way to quantify that.

How do you know how many lives have been saved?

[Merryprankster]

IB,

The first 15-20 minutes were chaos. When people start spouting off their theories about conspiracy this and that, it just tells me they've never actually had to deal with a REAL crisis where lives are at stake and you are doing everything you can to make sure information gets to the right people in real time. A conspiracy theory would have to have so many people at so many different levels involved that it's just not feasible. It would have had to start, for instance, with the FAA flunky in Boston and extend linearly all the way to the President while sidelining into several other watchfloors at MANY different agencies. It would have literally involved hundreds of people in Washington DC alone. And while, even IF the top folks were involved (which I'm quite sure they weren't) the guys on the floor are dedicated people who feel duty bound to do their jobs.

I was called 5 minutes after the first plane hit and told that it wasn't a terrorist attack, but something else.

More random phone calls ensued, trying to keep people informed back and forth. We obviously knew it was intentional when the 2nd tower was hit--but by that time people were telling us it WAS most likely a terrorist attack at that point anyway. Then the Pentagon and the crash landing in Pennsylvania...

Anyway, my point is that there is so much information and so many people involved that a conspiracy theory is so improbable a cause as to be a ridiculous assertion.

[chen zhen]

Sure, but you think if we would have stayed out of it that the Brits would have been able to help you?

I'm not saying we fought the whole war single-handed. But you were getting your @sses handed to you pretty firmly before we stepped in.


We are a small country. We are located at a common border with Germany. We where invaded because our military was weak. What, do you think, should we have done? We are dependant on a bigger ally, who can protect us.
That seems like we are all the things that you expect the rest of the world to be. But we are'nt. The war was fought to stop Hitler. It was justified. People were saved.
But does that justify everything else your government have done in the last 50 years? NO. Does it proove a good argument towards any criticism? NO.




no one else would assume responsibility, so here we go again.

Oh, poor you. I don't see you have done anything reasonable to stop the threat from N. Korea in the time you where all babbling about your Iraq-nonsense.



Freedom fighters engage enemy forces and official targets. Civilian casualites are occasionally incurred but are not the actual target and usually they try to avoid killing civilians.

Of course there is a difference. A big distinction should be made, but the potential freedom-fighters of the world are now on the US' terrorist-list.

[chen zhen]

Has anyone been nuked by N. Korea? Then shut your pie hole.

No. Not yet. The threat is still there, it was before the tip of your nose all the time, whike you bombed Iraq. (and the so-called "nuclear threat" from Iraq has now been proven to be BS. And if no-one have been nuked by N.Korea, it's certainly not because of you.

edit: I see you deleted your statement. U apparently saw the stupidity of it, but not in time.

[Merryprankster]

Really? Name freedom fighters that are on the U.S. official terrorist list that shouldn't be there.

[chen zhen]

MP: I could mention the Kurdish organisations, which are trying to fight back the inhuman treatment from Turkey. The very same Kurds which where killed, in Bush's cliche: "Saddam gassed his own people"

[Merryprankster]

The PKK and other Kurdish parties have used improvised explosive deviced in public places several times. They have firebombed diplomatic and business offices, kidnapped tourists, used handgrenades against public targets and suicide bombers and attacked civilians--even their own Kurdish bretheren.

http://www.terrorismanswers.com/groups/kurdistan.html


They are hardly freedom fighters. This does NOT excuse the Turkish government from it's atrocious treatment of the Kurds.

[chen zhen]

It is not just the militant kurdish groups that have been added to the list. I'll find more info, and post it.

[Merryprankster]

Chen Zhen,

I don't think so. Here is the United States' State Department's list of official foreign terrorist organizations. This is it. I know for a fact that every single organization on here has targetted civilians.:

1. Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
2. Abu Sayyaf Group
3. Armed Islamic Group (GIA)
4. Aum Shinrikyo
5. Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)
6. Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group)
7. HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement)
8. Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)
9. Hizballah (Party of God)
10. Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
11. al-Jihad (Egyptian Islamic Jihad)
12. Kahane Chai (Kach)
13. Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK)
14. Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
15. Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK)
16. National Liberation Army (ELN)
17. Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
18. Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
19. Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
20. PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)
21. al-Qa'ida
22. Real IRA
23. Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
24. Revolutionary Nuclei (formerly ELA)
25. Revolutionary Organization 17 November
26. Revolutionary People's Liberation Army/Front (DHKP/C)
27. Shining Path (Sendero Luminoso, SL)
28. United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC)

The only groups based in Turkey that are on this list ar the PKK and the DHKP/C

[chen zhen]

Is that all? Then I may have been wrong. But then again, I don't know the background of every organisation.

[Merryprankster]

Yeah, that's it, I'm afraid.

But I'm a terrorism analyst. It's my job to know this stuff :p

Hey, I gotta run. I hope there are no hard feelings. I find you eminently reasonable.

Cheers!

James

[chen zhen]

But I'm a terrorism analyst. It's my job to know this stuff

i guess I should'nt have turned the discussion in that direction, then..:p

It's better to discuss with people who knows what they're talking about.

[Chang Style Novice]

What of the SLA?:D

[chen zhen]

Excuse me for my ignorance, but what is the SLA..?
:rolleyes::p

[Chang Style Novice]

I guess they probably didn't gain the fame in Denmark they got here. The SLA is (or was, at least) the Symbionese Liberation Army, which is a peculiar way of saying "the hippie nutjobs who kidnapped and brainwashed Patty Hearst back in the 70s."

SLA (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbionese_Liberation_Army)

Oh, my beloved Tania
How I long to see your face photographed in fifteen second intervals
In a bank in San Leandro
A Polaroid of you, Cinque
With a seven-headed dragon
In a house in Daly City

Don't be sad, my beloved Tania
They say your father never liked Stephen Weed anyway
Hired a detective
To follow him around

Oh, my beloved revolutionary sweetheart
I can see your newsprint face turn yellow in the gutter
It makes me sad
How I long for the days when you came to liberate us from boredom
From driving around
from the hours between five to seven in the evening
My beloved Tania,
We carry your gun deep within our hearts
For no better reason than our lives have no meaning
And we want to be on television

[chen zhen]

:eek:

We've had lotsa crazy hippies, but that really draws the line!
lol, in a way..:p

[Chang Style Novice]

Say what you will about 'em, the seven headed cobra symbol is wicked cool.

[Chang Style Novice]

On a more serious note, the thing I find most distressing about the official list of terrorist organizations that MP posted is there are no domestic US orgs on there. Like the Posse Comitatus, or Republic of Texas, for example.

[chen zhen]

At least Kach was on the list, about time.:eek:

[Chang Style Novice]

I had to look them up, but now that I see their affiliated with that pr!ck b@stard Meir Kahane (let his body rot) I have no problem with that.

And I'm half Jewish.

[Shaolin-Do]

"On a more serious note, the thing I find most distressing about the official list of terrorist organizations that MP posted is there are no domestic US orgs on there."

Like the NRA?

Wiat... terrorists... sorry. Mistook that for pig f*cking rednecks.

[chen zhen]

Yeah, like being muslim does'nt have to do with supporting Bin Laden..:(

have'nt Meir been called "a jewish hitler", in his viewpoints? (exagorrated, no doubt, but anyway..)

[Chang Style Novice]

Not exaggerated by much, from what I recall. I seem to remember he seriously believed Palestinians should all be killed.

[chen zhen]

The b@stards actually have their own website! (http://www.kahane.org/home.htm)

I don't recall any Islamic terror-groups have had this luxury. Think "Osama-chat", lol.

edit: They actually see the US as "pro-Palestinian"! :eek:

[David Jamieson]

hate=evil ,no matter who is spewing it.

cheers

[chen zhen]

Hey!
U deleted a whole page!:eek:

:rolleyes:


:p

[David Jamieson]

chen-

I only deleted the drivel.:p

seriously, that last page was messed up.

cheers

[Xebsball]

told ya this wuzssies delete everything

not only they delete stuff, but they also are some form collectors who cant fight

[chen zhen]

XB: :p

KL: ok, it was. but beware, we can do worse things..;):eek:

[tnwingtsun]

chen zhen


http://users.cybercity.dk/~cfs23121/ssfieldpost.htm


Good thing all Dans didn't go bad,they might had taught me how to goose step in boot camp.

In respone to our getting in other countries affaires

Major General - United States Marine Corps [Retired]

Smedley Butler had this to say in 1933,

I am not a fool as to believe that war is a thing of the past. I know the people do not want war, but there is no use in saying we cannot be pushed into another war.
Looking back, Woodrow Wilson was re-elected president in 1916 on a platform that he had "kept us out of war" and on the implied promise that he would "keep us out of war." Yet, five months later he asked Congress to declare war on Germany.
In that five-month interval the people had not been asked whether they had changed their minds. The 4,000,000 young men who put on uniforms and marched or sailed away were not asked whether they wanted to go forth to suffer and die.
Then what caused our government to change its mind so suddenly?
Money.
An allied commission, it may be recalled, came over shortly before the war declaration and called on the President. The President summoned a group of advisers. The head of the commission spoke. Stripped of its diplomatic language, this is what he told the President and his group:

"There is no use kidding ourselves any longer. The cause of the allies is lost. We now owe you (American bankers, American munitions makers, American manufacturers, American speculators, American exporters) five or six billion dollars.
If we lose (and without the help of the United States we must lose) we, England, France and Italy, cannot pay back this money...and Germany won't.
So..."
Had secrecy been outlawed as far as war negotiations were concerned, and had the press been invited to be present at that conference, or had radio been available to broadcast the proceedings, America never would have entered the World War. But this conference, like all war discussions, was shrouded in utmost secrecy. When our boys were sent off to war they were told it was a "war to make the world safe for democracy" and a "war to end all wars."
Well, eighteen years after, the world has less of democracy than it had then. Besides, what business is it of ours whether Russia or Germany or England or France or Italy or Austria live under democracies or monarchies? Whether they are Fascists or Communists? Our problem is to preserve our own democracy"

[chen zhen]

>chen zhen


http://users.cybercity.dk/~cfs23121/ssfieldpost.htm


Good thing all Dans didn't go bad,they might had taught me how to goose step in boot camp.<


What's your f*cking point?:mad:

I could as well show you volounteer letters from Rumania, Poland, Austria, France, Holland, Sweden, hell, even the USA. That would'nt proof sh!t, and you know that!

"Good thing not all danes did'nt go bad"
Yeah, 5 volounteer letters does not represent a population 5 million people strong..:rolleyes:
U could as well tell the Poles that they deserved being invaded, because some Poles volounteered in the SS, assisting in killing the jews. If u remember, Denmark is famous for saving people who where the prey of the nazis.

My grandfather was in prison during most of the occupation, because he helped the resistance groups in Denmark, by making false ID papers for them, as well as for jews, so that they could escape. Does that also proove what "all the danes where doing" during the war? no.

[Laughing Cow]

Chen Zhen.

Don't worry about those guys, they are just making random swipes in the hope to get a lucky strike.

I honestly doubt that they REALLY know what went on in Europe prior, during and after WW II, and how people felt and were treated.

All they really know is the propaganda and their version of the History as they were taught.

Cheers.

[chen zhen]

They will never know sh!t.
They only want to live in the happy ideal wonderland, that they are the world's good guys & saviours, and that they will always be right whatever they say.

F*UUUCKKKK!!!

It can make me so f*cking mad!!:mad::mad::eek:

[Laughing Cow]

Chen Zhen.

Like one guy I talked to, he said he mastered in European and WW II history.

Funny thing was he NEVER left the States and all he learned was regurgitated info from History books.

How can you claim to know the history of a place, when you never been there and researched/verified it in the local archives.

Cheers.

[chen zhen]

Originally posted by Laughing Cow
Chen Zhen.

Like one guy I talked to, he said he mastered in European and WW II history.

Funny thing was he NEVER left the States and all he learned was regurgitated info from History books.

How can you claim to know the history of a place, when you never been there and researched/verified it in the local archives.

Cheers.

But it can be a double-edged sword, 'cos they could say that to u as well. "How can you know the history of the US when you've never been there". U know?:(

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by chen zhen


But it can be a double-edged sword, 'cos they could say that to u as well. "How can you know the history of the US when you've never been there". U know?:(

True, OTOH, I never claim/ed to have a masters degree in US history.
:D

FWIW, been to the states and have plenty of friends that either lived there or moved there.

Cheers.

[chen zhen]

I have family over there. It does'nt mean that I'm not allowed to criticise the US' policy.

I just hate when ignorant people pulls something up to your face about your country's past, when they don't know sh!t.. I do that too, but at least I KNOW.

[dezhen2001]

I don't recall any Islamic terror-groups have had this luxury. Think "Osama-chat", lol. not exactly true man... there are some but best avoided :( Thankfully they tend to be monitored by the relevant government agencies - even i think probably islamic forums like this one as there are still a few whackos around :(


Yeah, like being muslim does'nt have to do with supporting Bin Laden.. as far as im a ware quite a lot of muslims died in the WTC too as there were some pakistani/asian people working in the lower jobs there. I have talked to a few muslims who had relatives working there and closeby. Some muslim leaders even say OBL's actions have put him and his "mujihadeen" outside the fold of Islam.

Merry P: must be a hard job, especially when all he|| breaks loose, take it easy :)

dawood

[chen zhen]

not exactly true man... there are some but best avoided Thankfully they tend to be monitored by the relevant government agencies - even i think probably islamic forums like this one as there are still a few whackos around

Yes, true. There's lotsa Islamic websites like Kahane's.:(


as far as im a ware quite a lot of muslims died in the WTC too as there were some pakistani/asian people working in the lower jobs there. I have talked to a few muslims who had relatives working there and closeby. Some muslim leaders even say OBL's actions have put him and his "mujihadeen" outside the fold of Islam.

Yes, but there's also (lots) of Muslim leaders who praise him, or at least defends him to a *certain* degree. Luckily, they are few.:(

btw Dawood, now when i've got your attention, take a look at this site (http://jews-for-allah.org/) , it might proove interesting for you. It points out the huge similarities between Islam and Judaism, and also other religions.:)

[David Jamieson]

told ya this wuzssies delete everything

not only they delete stuff, but they also are some form collectors who cant fight



yes, that's the sort of stuff that can be refrained from. :D


cheers

[tnwingtsun]

I'd e-mail ya some blood pressure meds if I could m8;)

I knew that might get a rise out of ya but I didn't expect to see smoke coming out of my moniter,lol

>I just hate when ignorant people pulls something up to your face about your country's past, when they don't know sh!t.. I do that too, but at least I KNOW.<

Really,how much do you know?
If you were talking about what I posted you may need to re-read it again,I said all Danes were not like that,just some.....


http://outrage.nabumedia.com/pressrelease.asp?ID=134
http://www.wssob.com/photos3.html
http://www.petertatchell.net/international/vaernetbook.htm
http://axis101.bizland.com/DanishLegion02.htm
http://www.henrikc.dk/militaryvehicles/ww2/atroceties.htm

Matter of fact chen zhen,that letter from the USMC General talked about how war is a racket for the most part and how England, France and Italy, cannot pay back this money...and Germany won't,so you guys across the pond have as much if not more(More if we do a head check) blood on your hands than we do,so forgeting the past and pointing the finger at us might work at the coffee shop with the more power to the people crowd but it don't get it in the house of what happened.

It all boils down to people that like to point the finger and sling mud when alot of times they really have no clue as to what their talking about or thay heard it on TV or on the "Ken and Barbee News" and take it to be facts.,these people remind me of the rednecks that won't call their french fries what they are because they don't know the **** things were grown in Georgia.

Of course I know for the most part Danes played a big role in WW2 against Nazi Germany,as much as your country could do being pinned down,many of your brave countrymen died fighting.

My grand mother's grandfather fought in the American Civil War
in General Lee's Army of Northern Virginia,even most of my own countrymen north of the Mason Dixon line don't have a clue as to the real reason why and most people from the South fought,I can hardly
expect you to know,sometimes history can be tainted by the victors(In Japanese school books the losers tainted it).

[Laughing Cow]

So you are telling us that American school books are NOT tainted when it comes to History?

Pull the other one.

[tnwingtsun]

"So you are telling us that American school books are NOT tainted when it comes to History?"

>even most of my own countrymen north of the Mason Dixon line don't have a clue as to the real reason why and most people from the South fought,I can hardly
expect you to know,sometimes history can be tainted by the victors<


American school history books ARE tainted,just read any book about the civil war.;)

[dezhen2001]

chen zhen: oh i have seen that site already :) i have 3 good friends who are actually Jewish and its interesting to talk about it.

dawood

[tnwingtsun]

Heya dezhen!

Did ya ever get that law passed in your country making it legal to sleep with goats in Jennifer nation??:D

[chen zhen]

tnw: I just expected another attack by ignorants, as I had been before that. But you seem to be more reasonable than I thought, so I forgive you;):)
What I meant with what I know, is that the US have made them selves very-well known across the globe, for obvious reasons, that means that many "Non-americans"(how I hate to use that word..) may know more about American (at least modern-) history, than americans might know about other countries history, for different reasons. U see?:)

I am a nice fellow, as long as I don't get stirred up..;)

[tnwingtsun]

I didn't mean to offend you by throwing that up in your face,frankly I felt kind of bad when I saw your response,I also laughed too and figured if you couldn't see that I was messing with ya the hell with you.

I guess what I was trying to say was that most people on this earth live in a country thats done very stupid things somewhere in its history,some more than others and my country at this moment in history is in a very bad situation,we're in a catch-22.

We're ****ed if we do and we're ****ed if we don't.

Right now more than ever we need a leader and a fixer,and IMO George just ain't it,us right-wingers ain't all bad,well,I consider myself more in the middle.

I just hope that we got some better ones running,Gepieheart shaw don't do it and never will in my book so I'll have to take a closer look at the other donkeys,maybe MP and CSN might give me some suggestions.

Getting back to the topic of this thread,I don't think that Bush knew about the attacks before they happened,theres just WAY too many people that would have to be involved and that many people can't keep a secret of that magitude.

Now back in 1941,I do belive that FDR knew that the Japanese
were going to attack,FDR was a good banker and England owed
us lots of money and he knew that if Germany won the war Hitler sure as hell wasen't going to pay,plus........

Hitler was a jerk,
Hitler was a jerk,
Mussolini bit his wenie now it doesen't work.

[dezhen2001]

Heya dezhen!

Did ya ever get that law passed in your country making it legal to sleep with goats in Jennifer nation?? i wondered what u meant for a while there LOL :D didnt log on for a while so i got erased :(

dawood

[chen zhen]

tnw:
I understand now, that you where'nt doing it to offend me. U could have used a smilie, or sumthin..:(.....;)

[chen zhen]

Dawood: But it was a good link anyhoo, was'nt it?:)

[tnwingtsun]

I got erased too:(

Maybe they will upgrade it in the future to something better(and keep it free),then we'll take over de vorld!

[dezhen2001]

tnwingtsun: fer shizzle man :D

chen zhen: judaism and islam are both monotheistic religions and have many close ties in scripture - so i think its interesting :)

dawood

[chen zhen]

All 3 monotheistic religions stem from the same source.. so, sure.;)

[Merryprankster]

CSN,

That list was the Designated Foreign Terrorist Group list.

A Domestic one would fall outside State Department's jurisdiction.