Mixed Martial Artists...

[monkey man]

What do you train in and why? How much time do you attribute to each one? Do you use particular arts to make up for (-subjectively perceived) deficiencies in others? Do you use other styles to answer questions/look for answers in your chosen or specialised art? What is the danger of becoming a 'jack of all trades, master of none' within cross-training? If you train in different internal martial arts, do things become more complicated (i.e. using different chi kung exercises that might have diametrically opposed(?)/uncomplimentary physical effects)?

Many thanks...





:)

[chen zhen]

If you train in different internal martial arts, do things become more complicated (i.e. using different chi kung exercises that might have diametrically opposed(?)/uncomplimentary physical effects)?

It is not a matter of the Qigong exercises (chi is chi, no matter what..;))
It's because the different IMA have their own unique ways of generating power, and techniques that goes against the principles of each other (like bagua=circular, deflecting, Xingyi=straght, direct, powerful).
But what makes the differences, can also at the same time compliment each other.:)

[CAMEL KILLER]

I find it naive and close minded for people to believe that one art is the end all to self defense. No one art will teach you everything you need to know in regards to fighting. Although, if you ask people from each individual art if their art lacks anything they will tell you no. So whos right?
Anyone that says their art encompasses every aspect of fighting is either A. Lieing B. Very naive.
i am a wrestler first and foremost. I have competed on the national and international level. I also boxed in the army and still train regularly. I also supliment my standup game with Muy Thai. I train in subs to supliment my wrestling skills.

I use boxing as my main standup game. There is no other standup art that can hold a candle to western boxing. The Muy Thai helps with leg attacks and elbows.

[Surferdude]

I find that TKD doesnt help at all with karate... but thats just me

[Shaolin-Do]

What about kuk sool won?
Tang soo doo?


:rolleyes:

[Surferdude]

Hmmm..........

[SevenStar]

TSD is closer to karate than TKD - why the roll eyes?

[Xebsball]

LSD has got nothing to do with karate, i dunno what your problem is, weirdo

[HuangKaiVun]

We train combat-abbreviated versions of Taiji, Bagua, HsingYi, Seng Men, Shaolin (North AND South), Drunken boxing, and my own "Huang Style" which features weapons like pens and books and boxes, etc . . .

Each one of these systems is a complete system in and of itself, but there's so much overlap between the styles that learning one of these methods well will contribute to easy learning of another method.

We regularly bring in people from other styles to talk about the training. Our students have been exposed to a wide range of arts ranging from Royce Gracie's BJJ to 8-step Praying Mantis to Shaolin Do (has its merits, really!) to sport TKD to urban ghetto brawling (an art in and of itself) to US military combat techniques. Often, I've co-taught classes with practitioners from these styles as a form of side-by-side comparison.

Most good combat styles have exercises that complement each other. We train those different styles because every scenario is slightly different and thus the student is better off being exposed to all sorts of stuff. Solo set practice is a means of unifying some of the concepts we teach, especially as it pertains to the simplicity needed for real fighting.

In my experience, the "jack of all trades" type FIGHTS BETTER than the "master of one". So far, this has been true 100% of the time in my short stint as a sifu.

[jmd161]

There is no other standup art that can hold a candle to western boxing.


:rolleyes:

It's funny that you say that because you also said this.


I find it naive and close minded for people to believe that one art is the end all to self defense.

So if it comes to a stand up fight boxing is the end all to self defense?

I have to laugh at this sort of stuff.No matter how many times it's said ppl still don't get it.

" It all comes down to the person and their heart "

Not no magical hidden art or their mixing boxing,muay thai,and wrestling together.There used to be a Tough Man Competiton that used to go around many yrs back.You know who usually won the tournament?

Streetfighters!

They usually wiped the floor with everyone else.

jeff:)

[CAMEL KILLER]

I'm sorry *******. I should have been more specific for the "mystical supermen" around here. I meant that no other striking art can hold a candle to western boxing. That does not include kicking and elbows.
So, *******, if you don't agree with me then where are all these other deadly strikers that can outstrike a boxer? And why aren't they making millions in the ring?
Please explain....

[CAMEL KILLER]

"Not no magical hidden art or their mixing boxing,muay thai,and wrestling together.There used to be a Tough Man Competiton that used to go around many yrs back.You know who usually won the tournament?

Streetfighters!

They usually wiped the floor with everyone else."

LMAO! typical of traditional martial artists. No proof just be vague.

Be more specific. What competition was this and who competed? I call bull/****e on this.

OH! was this the Super secret, kung Foo underground fight to the death tournaments? LMAO!

[HuangKaiVun]

Boxing works for CAMEL KILLER, enough that he feels no need to study any other striking style.

I applaud that. He's just speaking from experience, given that he has yet to face a truly skilled kung fu guy who knows how to hurt you by hitting or grappling you. Actually, CAMEL KILLER is the exact type of guy that trains at my traditional kung fu academy.

Nowadays, it's mainly boxing types that win the Toughman contests. The rules are set up for boxing to prevail, so it's not surprising that one HAS to have a strong background to win that competition.

I also disagree that it comes down to the person and the heart. I had all the heart and drive in the world, but it took specific training to unleash that potential in my case. If heart were the most important thing, why do experienced technicians routinely whip passionate folks who have no technique? And why practice at all, then?

Far more important than heart and drive is knowing the techniques to survive a street encounter - and training them regularly.


Oh yeah. Ring fighting is NOT THE SAME as all-out street fighting, and that's why kung fu's strikes are TOTALLY DIFFERENT from boxing and Muay Thai's.

I'd LOVE to meet you one day, CAMEL KILLER. I like your style.

[jmd161]

OH! was this the Super secret, kung Foo underground fight to the death tournaments? LMAO!

Did i say it was a kung fu tournament?

Lets check my post.


quote:
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There is no other standup art that can hold a candle to western boxing.
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:rolleyes:

It's funny that you say that because you also said this.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I find it naive and close minded for people to believe that one art is the end all to self defense.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So if it comes to a stand up fight boxing is the end all to self defense?

I have to laugh at this sort of stuff.No matter how many times it's said ppl still don't get it.

" It all comes down to the person and their heart "

Not no magical hidden art or their mixing boxing,muay thai,and wrestling together.There used to be a Tough Man Competiton that used to go around many yrs back.You know who usually won the tournament?

Streetfighters!

They usually wiped the floor with everyone else.

jeff:)



No i don't see where i said it was a kung fu tournament.The name of the competiton was "The Tough Man Competiton" it was about 10-15 yrs ago i don't know your age so you may not be familiar with it.

I don't see where i said kung fu did well either?

I said streetfighters won.That meant kung fu,karate,boxing,wrestling, all did poorly against the streetfighters.

Or did you take time to read what i wrote before trying to jump on my post?

jeff:)

[CAMEL KILLER]

I have work to do so I will check back another day. So everyone hold hands, chant and cheerleed and pretend you ran me off. I have to get back to work.

[jmd161]

Originally posted by CAMEL KILLER
I have work to do so I will check back another day. So everyone hold hands, chant and cheerleed and pretend you ran me off. I have to get back to work.

Is that supposed to be a victory for me?

I was'nt trying to get into a flame war with you if that's what you thought? I just pointed out that you were saying what seemed to be a contradiction.

What ever though.

I just thought this was a disscussion forum?


jeff:)

[CAMEL KILLER]

I stated that boxing was the best striking art. Striking is only one aspect of fighting so I don't see the contradiction.

[jmd161]

There is no other standup art that can hold a candle to western boxing.

I find it naive and close minded for people to believe that one art is the end all to self defense.


Maybe it's me but i thought that was a contradiction?


You're saying there's no one art to end all to self defense,but boxing is the end all of self defense in the stand up game.

Maybe i'm just reading that the wrong way?


jeff:)

[CAMEL KILLER]

Again, I meant boxing for strikes (excluding elbows and kicking or knees). If you want to learn to throw a punch would you choose to train with Manny steward or some kung Fu guy of your choice? Personally I would choose the boxer.

[HuangKaiVun]

I'd train with ME (a traditional kung fu sifu), but that's MY opinion!

Come and see how we throw punches, CAMEL KILLER.

We've got everything from orthodox Western boxing punches to side horse stance punches to Drunken punches to knockout jabs to to to . . . .

There are several ways of throwing punches, but showing people how and when to pull them off is how trainers (kung fu or boxing) make their money.

[jmd161]

What you are saying is boxing is king when it comes to just using hands or punching.

No other limbs used.

Ok my bad bro!


jeff:)

[Yung Apprentice]

LMAO!!!!!

[monkey man]

It's a shame that we can't talk about different styles without it degerating into mouth-boxing. :(

Has anyone else got anything constructive to add? How about the idea of learning techniques in different styles to cross-reference with their own, specialised style (especially recognising technique possibilities/interpretations in forms that you may not have considered or been taught otherwise)?

[Ray Pina]

Here's a try: All of my punches are delivered the same way as a western-style boxing upper cut. They can break off at any time to become a hook, overhand or a straight (curving in or out to biceps) but come from the same delivery system. I believe this motion/shape is more powerful than jab/reverse punch type deliveries and confuses the other guy.

My master has played with a lot of boxers, has studied Judo, TKD, a ton of CMA, before going the internal route. So while I study Hsing-I and Ba Gua, we also train grappling and boxing. The school has a MMA feel. We look for what works, not what is traditional. A 500 year old style is antique, last year's computer is already outdated.

PS

I lost a decision at a "kung fu" tournament a few months ago because I "looked like I was boxing." I took that as a compliment.

In the end though, find what you like and work it. Comparing the AK-47 to the M16 is OK. But what happened in Vietnam and what happened in Gulf War 1 and 2. Same weapons facing each other used differently = different result.

[Ray Pina]

I wouldn't know :)

I was expecting some wise guy to point out that our advantage in all those wars was not the M16 but the backing of air support and now the famous cruise missle ... of course completely missing the point a la Kung Fu forum style.

[MatT3T4]

Originally posted by monkey man

Has anyone else got anything constructive to add?

I think I do. I think that MMA is a godsend. Not that one art is better than the next, but most arts have things that they mainly focus on, and things that they don't. Being able to train in different arts, and focus in on all of these when summoned to, in my opinion, will put you in your best spot.

As for Western boxing, I would absolutely think that this would be the best hand striking art. That is what they focus on. That is what 110% of their practice is...therefore, those guys will probably end up winning a fight if it was boxing ONLY. Key word: ONLY. If it were knee strking and elbows ONLY, a Muay Thai fighter would probably prevail. That's not the point of MMA though, the point of MMA is to train for ALL aspects of it. I have trained in Tae Kwon Do, Muay Thai, American Kenpo, Shorin-ji Kajubo Kempo, and Kodokan Judo (a couple of classes) over the past 9 years. It has given me a pretty solid MMA background.

Right now, I am looking for a good Kung Fu school to go long term with. I want to settle down in one artform. But MMA, definitely a good thing.