Shuai Chiao and Aikido

[StickyHands]

Anyone noticed how similar they are in appearance than they are different? I am not sure how the principles work though or the training, but they both strive to be 'effortless' my guess. And they both use the opponent's body for execution, not gi.

[Chang Style Novice]

Shuai Chiao's spirit of competition as opposed to Aikido's spirit of cooperation subsumes whatever similarities may exist, in my view. Throwing an SC guy will be tougher than throwing an Aikidoka, because he's fighting to not be thrown. There's no such thing as uke and tori in SC, there's just the guy who stays up longest. This philisophical difference means the arts practice and hence appearance couldn't be more different, from what I've seen.

Also, I've never seen an Aikido throw that uses the feet to disrupt an opponents root structure balance, etc. (aka - sweep the ankle.) This technique is constantly present in Shuai Chiao.

[Shuul Vis]

As a current practitioner of Shuai Chiao and having studied Aikido for 3 years in the past, i can say that they are very different. In my opinion the only similarity is that they both utilize throws and similar locking techniques.

Shuai Chiao is very aggressive and involves direct attacks like diagonal striking and sweeps that are more like kicks than simple leg sweeps. Traditional Aikido has no real strikes with the exception of feints and is completely cooperative rather than competitive like Chang Style Novice stated. In Shuai Chiao you do seek to use the opponent's force against them as in aikido, but Shuai Chiao has no problem smashing into his opponent with force of its own.

[Liokault]

I've never seen an Aikido throw that uses the feet to disrupt an opponents root structure balance, etc.

I have never seen an Aikido throw against a guy who was not totaly willing and ready to be thrown. I have seen lots try, i have heard many aikidoka tell me how good they are and I have seen them all land on their arse, sometimes by against total beginers.


Any one know of any Shuai Chiao in the UK?

[Shuul Vis]

Its hard to train aikido without people willing to be thrown and the reason is this. Many of the techniques in aikido rely on the redirection of the opponent's attacking energy. The attack must come with full momentum or the throws wont work much at all.

Shuai Chiao is different in that, like i said earlier, it has no problem chopping your legs out from under you or push striking you to create that momentum for its throws.

[StickyHands]

So if Aikido really does require cooperation from the opponent without resistance, than why is it that's it a formidable practical form of self defense? And a lot of law enforcement officials train under it?

[Chang Style Novice]

You get some hardcore mofos teaching it, but also lots and lots of wimpy hippies.

[StickyHands]

*cough*Biased!*cough* :D

[Golden Arms]

I have used Aikido successfully against 2 larger and also on smaller opponent at different times in street/self defense situations....It works..but unlike some martial arts, it is much less forgiving. If you dont train hard, and have some talent or develop some, you will not be able to use it, or at least not very well unless the other person is not too aware of what is going on...I wouldnt discount it not working though..one of the guys I used it on, I later became friends with. He was a really good boxer that could bench 300+ at 155lbs. I was suprised how well it worked!

[rubthebuddha]

sticky hands -- it's can be used just fine in real-world stuff, because the techniques are going to have plenty of momentum (someone throwing a bunch and really wanting it to break your face). however, in class, most people don't throw full-power strikes due to the risks, so a defender may not have the real-life amount of energy to use.

comparing that to shuai chaio, which doesn't require momentum to toss someone ass over teakettle.

[Samurai Jack]

Practiced a leg sweep in class yesterday. It greatly resembled Judo's Osoto-gari for those familiar with it. It was sort of a pre-emptive move, a kind of Irimi wherein enter to the outside of Uke and palm strike (atemi) to his clavicle while simultaneously sweeping the foot from under him. The sweep was performed in a most unusual (for me) fashion wherein Nage basically gets himself into position for a basic forward stance and then slides his foot back as he drops his weight and lowers his stance. It required almost zero effort. Uber cool.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Liokault


I have never seen an Aikido throw against a guy who was not totaly willing and ready to be thrown.I have.
I have seen lots try, i have heard many aikidoka tell me how good they are and I have seen them all land on their arse, sometimes by against total beginers.
I have seen this with martial artists from many disciplines.
Golden Arms
I have used Aikido successfully against 2 larger and also on smaller opponent at different times in street/self defense situationsMe too. But then I'm just an anonymous internet lurker so what would I know!!!:rolleyes::D

[Mr Punch]

As for the topic, Shuul Vis nailed it.

[Former castleva]

"So if Aikido really does require cooperation from the opponent without resistance, than why is it that's it a formidable practical form of self defense? And a lot of law enforcement officials train under it?"

Wow.Well,would it be that way,it would be completely bunk.
I mean,there´s a difference between "cooperation"&" "cooperating" regardless of your will".It´s really you who sort of "gives in" to make them give it up.
Besides,you can go offensive to a degree.