Advice for a new student

[BeWater]

Hi!

I recently started studying Wing Chun -- I'm about six weeks into it. Two questions:

1. If you could go back, is there anything you'd do differently as a beginning WC student? Perhaps do more Siu Lim Tao, pay more attention to posture, etc. Any nuggets of wisdom are greatly appreciated!

2. Can you recommend any supplemental activities that have greatly enhanced your WC ability? And I don't (necessarily) mean things like BJJ which may enhance your overall combat effectiveness -- I'm wondering specificially about things that augment your WC. Perhaps Chi Kung exercises?

Thanks!

[PQS]

The thing I found the hardest was training at home by myself, I have been trainng a year or so and am just starting to realise that it is all in the forms
good luck in your studies and enjoy
Regards
Peter

[anerlich]

1. If you have any physical problems or injuries which prevent you training properly, get professional help for them.

Hasten slowly. Heaps of guys I have seen go for it full tilt, train six days a week, and burn out after a few months. Start out at a mderate pace and only ramp it up when you are sure body and mind can handle it.

Keep an open mind. Don't believe everything you hear without verifying it for yourself.

2. It is IMHO highly debatable whether qigong has any value for health cultivation. For combat effectiveness, IMO it is a complete waste of time, except *possibly* at elite levels, though from what I've seen most WC teachers only offer it to attract or keep students who don't like or can't handle hard WC training. I'm still waiting to be proved wrong.

Basic strength, flexibility and endurance training will help. Don't worry about learning other stuff like BJJ until you have a solid grounding in WC.

One more piece of advice - stay off WC internet forums. They're full of the weird, hopeless and depraved.

[yuanfen]

1. If you have a good teacher- pay close attention and practice.
((Hopefully you have done some homework and visitations before you began))

2, If you dont have a good teacher- run- find the best- in another art if necessary.

3. Dont be other directed - by net xxxx chat.

4. Work on improving yourself- dont be in awe of others.

[old jong]

Learn right away to keep that Wu Sau up there!
...Be patient. ;)

[Ernie]

be water,

this was very good advice so i'll put it up again
[Keep an open mind. Don't believe everything you hear without verifying it for yourself. ]

from the second you learn your first functional application test everything , lets say it's a pak sau , pak everything in sight ,every person that is willing to throw a punch at you '' especially non wing chun people '' find friendly people from other systems boxers , thai guys what ever and work out your concepts develop your ideas , get familier with diffferent lines of attack other then wing chun , in the begining you will suck and you will get frustrated but , that's the whole purpose , in time you gain experience and you learn to adapt and mold your concepts to a ever changing enviroment.

[rubthebuddha]

fantastic advice all around.

considering the only folks i teach with regularity at my kwoon are the newest of the new, i'll say the same thing here that i tell them:

build your foundation. a house cannot stand against weather with a weak base. by the same token, good kung fu starts from the ground up. work your feet, work your feet and work your feet some more. the hands will come in time. :)

[PaulH]

Learn to use your mind and feel more in your moves. Intuition and imagination have no limits.

The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them.
- Albert Einstein

Regards,

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by BeWater

1. If you could go back, is there anything you'd do differently as a beginning WC student? Perhaps do more Siu Lim Tao, pay more attention to posture, etc. Any nuggets of wisdom are greatly appreciated!
I would have started 30 years earlier than I did. :) Also, focus on good posture. Read and learn to apply the principles in these articles (http://www.wingchun.com/articles.shtml).


2. Can you recommend any supplemental activities that have greatly enhanced your WC ability?

Get plenty of sleep. Go easy on the sugar. Take a daily vitamin. Don't forget to breathe. :p

Regards,

[[Censored]]

1. If you could go back, is there anything you'd do differently as a beginning WC student?
I agree with Ernie's advice 100%.

I would also say that, whatever you are doing, you should see a definite significant result after 3 months of doing it. Whether it is a particular drill, stance work, chi sao, or whatever, it should produce a change. If not, modify what you are doing, or stop doing it, or find a new or better teacher.

2. It is IMHO highly debatable whether qigong has any value for health cultivation.
No it isn't.

For combat effectiveness, IMO it is a complete waste of time
After a few months, most people will be able to control their breathing. Breathing is important, in my silly opinion. No breath = no strength.

...though from what I've seen most WC teachers only offer it to attract or keep students who don't like or can't handle hard WC training.
You may be right about that.

[reneritchie]

Go slow. Take your time to thoroughly learn each and every point. The beginning is a wonderful time. You don't have much material to train yet so you can really focus on a few things and get them down pat, which will make it easier later (nothing sucks worse than being bad at 200+ moves - never enough time to devote to all of the them, much less catch up).

Every time you learn a new point, try to work it for its training value (specific attributes it tries to develop in you like flexibility, tendon changing, etc.), and its offensive and defensive use in combat. Each and every point should be applicable in several contexts and should embody and important concept. Learn each separately so that when you learn more, you can combine them in use.

Don't pay attention to what others further along are doing. It's just a distraction. And don't race to learn more. Enjoy the beginning.

Hei Gung (Qigong) is mostly BS when it comes to Southern arts like WCK. If you already know it, you can go back and hindsight engineer it in, but WCK like most real MA concentrates on Noi Gung (Neigong) or internal work, related but different, and part of the training you'll already get.

General fitness will help your WCK. It will prevent injuries and allow you to train with intensity for reasonable periods. If you have especially poor muscle tone or cardio, invest in bringing it up to par. General flexibility too. WCK doesn't require muscle or flexibility or any of that, but its better with it, with your health, and with your quality of life. Like any great engine, a great body is a benefit.

[TjD]

don't ignore your legs.

while in the beginning WC doesn't appear to do much with the legs, make sure you work your stance hard - don't cheat yourself by practicing a poor YGKYM!

[PaulH]

I found the quote of Mushashi from a Chen Zhen post. This should give you some help.

There is a sequence of phases in developing the practice of one's art. One begins by self-consciously practicing a certain technique. One proceeds slowly, deliberately, reflectively; but one keeps on practicing until the technique becomes internalized and one is no longer self-conscious when executing it. After a set of techniques has been thoroughly internalized, one begins to grasp the principles behind them. And finally, when one has understood and internalized the basic principles, one no longer responds mechanically to a given attack, but begins to use the art creatively and in a manner whereby one's individual style and insights can find expression.
-Miyamoto Musashi

Regards,

[BeWater]

Wow. Thank you ALL for the great advice -- even from the "weird, hopeless and depraved" people out there. ;)

Keep an open mind. Don't believe everything you hear without verifying it for yourself.
I absolutely agree. However, isn't there a certain amount of faith (I don't mean that in a religious way) in one's sifu and in the system itself that is required? I mean, how can I really know whether something I've been told is valid or not? Furthermore, does it even matter -- isn't it just as important that one has confidence in what they've learned?

[[Censored]]

However, isn't there a certain amount of faith (I don't mean that in a religious way) in one's sifu and in the system itself that is required?
Faith that they can help you to reach their level of ability, maybe. Determining what that level is, however, requires no faith whatsoever. As for faith in a system...your teacher IS your system, for better or for worse.

I mean, how can I really know whether something I've been told is valid or not?
You cannot.

Furthermore, does it even matter -- isn't it just as important that one has confidence in what they've learned?
"...surely it is the most blameworthy ignorance to believe that one knows what one does not." --Socrates (that blind squirrel found a few nuts, here and there)

[kj]

Originally posted by BeWater
I absolutely agree. However, isn't there a certain amount of faith (I don't mean that in a religious way) in one's sifu and in the system itself that is required? I mean, how can I really know whether something I've been told is valid or not?

Early on, it is difficult to know the wheat from chaff. The fact that a teacher can dominate students isn't in and of itself sufficient evidence of the quality of what is being taught, though often enough it's the benchmark applied. However, and especially very early in our work, it may be the only tangible evidence we have to go on. Over time, increasing exposure to others outside one's own school can help to provide a reality check, and keep us honest with ourselves.


Furthermore, does it even matter -- isn't it just as important that one has confidence in what they've learned?

Yes and no. False or misplaced confidence can be a liability and a hazard. It's also not much fun trying to undo improper habits built over years either, and well worth the trouble and patience to get off on the most solid start possible.

There is a lot of good "advice" in the preceding posts. I would also suggest "be sure you have found the right teacher for you." Again, time and exposure will tell. Unless one lucks into it, finding a great teacher is easier said than done. And back to your point, till we know enough to make some reasonable assessments for ourselves, we need rely on a certain amount of faith and trust. Hopefully not blind faith though. The best learning requires us to honestly question and perpetually evaluate.

Some thoughts, anyway. Best wishes in your training, and enjoy the journey.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

P.S. I am indeed hopeless, and more than likely depraved. Caveat emptor.

[yuanfen]

BeWater- judgement calls are inescable- including trusting your teacher after you have made the initial decisions to join.

Censored- yes- Socrates was known to be interested in nuts at times!

[Ernie]

kathy said
[increasing exposure to others outside one's own school can help to provide a reality check, and keep us honest with ourselves.]

well put , when in doubt test it . and all should be made clear , if it doesn't work take the problem back to your teacher if he can't give you a good answer or solution, find another teacher ,

teacher s all have different strengths and weaknesses most gravitate to what they feel works for them , i'm on my third wing chun teacher , and work out with a few other sifu's from time to time , i look at the universal truths across the board , and focus on those concepts .
the truth comes out when you test and question , your body and experience will tell you right from wrong . it's when you fail to question and tst everything that you can get lead astray.

[Alpha Dog]

Originally posted by BeWater
Hi!

I recently started studying Wing Chun -- I'm about six weeks into it. Two questions (sort of):

1. If you could go back, is there anything you'd do differently as a beginning WC student? Perhaps do more Siu Lim Tao, pay more attention to posture, etc. Any nuggets of wisdom are greatly appreciated!

2. Can you recommend any supplemental activities that have greatly enhanced your WC ability? And I don't (necessarily) mean things like BJJ which may enhance your overall combat effectiveness -- I'm wondering specificially about things that augment your WC. Perhaps Chi Kung exercises?

Thanks!

Watch Bruce Lee movies and chain punch incessantly till you black out! Then get up and do more, everyday. Work at looking tough in the mirror while doing this exercise as your video tapes rewind.

[Ernie]

my secret is out
Watch Bruce Lee movies and chain punch incessantly till you black out! Then get up and do more, everyday. Work at looking tough in the mirror while doing this exercise as your video tapes rewind.

[Alpha Dog]

Sorry dude, but sooner or later the truth about how to master Wing Chun had to be told. I'm just glad I was the one to do it.

Sincerely,

IconocastAlphaDog

[S.Teebas]

Practice(improve) your stance for 10 years.

[captain]

take inspiration from little triumphs.my first bong sau to
work [against a palm strike jab ] was bliss and ultra.

Russ.

[anerlich]

Breathing is important, in my silly opinion. No breath = no strength.

I agree breathing is important. I practice breathing drills myself from yoga and RMA.

But in *my* silly opinion:

* The benefits claimed for qigong go far beyond realistic efficiency and endurance during movement or exertion into the realms of the ridiculous.

* Nobody I've come across who teaches "Wing Chun Qigong", or pontificates about it on this forum, gives any real indication they know WTF they are going on about.

Thus IMO it is better left alone, lest students fall prey to the belief that alleged development of arcane abilities of unprovable veracity will somehow take the place of more mundane but more practical hard training in the basics, let alone provide a quicker path to real ability in fighting.

[[Censored]]

The benefits claimed for qigong go far beyond realistic efficiency and endurance during movement or exertion into the realms of the ridiculous.

High-level qigong is as realistic as high-level martial art skill. IOW everyone makes claims and few can back them up. This has everything to do with human nature, and nothing to do with any particular field of study.

Nobody I've come across who teaches "Wing Chun Qigong", or pontificates about it on this forum, gives any real indication they know WTF they are going on about.

I never suggested that anyone should join a qigong distance learning course on KFO. To contrast: do you think the average Wing Chun pracititioner on this Wing Chun forum knows WTF they are talking about?

Thus IMO it is better left alone, lest students fall prey to the belief that alleged development of arcane abilities of unprovable veracity will somehow take the place of more mundane but more practical hard training in the basics, let alone provide a quicker path to real ability in fighting.

Most people will achieve nothing in Wing Chun, regardless of any belief or allegation to the contrary. Perhaps they should avoid it altogether then?

[anerlich]

High-level qigong is as realistic as high-level martial art skill.

The second is demonstrable, unlike the first.


IOW everyone makes claims and few can back them up.

I don't make claims I can't back up.


I never suggested that anyone should join a qigong distance learning course on KFO.

Nor did I. I'd suggest that no one should bother with qigong (as opposed to correct breathing, they are not the same), be it via distance learning or anywhere else. IMO WC and qigong are unrelated, and thus a background a WC is unrelated to having a clue about qigong.


do you think the average Wing Chun pracititioner on this Wing Chun forum knows WTF they are talking about?

I've been willing to make that assumption about you so far. Am I wrong?


Most people will achieve nothing in Wing Chun, regardless of any belief or allegation to the contrary. Perhaps they should avoid it altogether then?

You seem to be struggling on against the overwhelming odds, apparently. I'm not in a position to forecast whether you will achieve anything. Good luck, you seem to feel every one of us here will need it.

[foolinthedeck]

RELAX

everything else is easy to change later on, if u start tense, u end up 3 years later like so many people i roll with, they are tensed up, fighting me, they think they are doing wing chun but they still arent. its sad and funny at the same time.

RELAX now when u only just begun and the way will be easier and more fruitful. once u relaxed u can always tense if need be. Tense people find it kind of hard to relax.

RELAX