Does Kung Fu really work on the street?

[Vince D.]

From the experiences I have had out on the street,which has been a lot, I have noticed that when faced with a situation the martial artist or "Kung fu man" usually tends to freeze not knowing what to do because he/she has never been faced with a real combat situation like that before. The first couple of times, when learning Kung fu, that I have faced a situation like this I found myself feeling very helpless. After studying for a while with my Sigung he started getting into it more and more. See, you have to learn not to think about who wins or loses, and you cant be afraid of getting hurt, cause yea, it happens. Instead you must realize that the fear and all that adrenaline that you are feeling is a good thing, and you must use that to your advantage. The next time I found myself getting in a fight on the street, since I have had some experience before, I was more relaxed I mean yea I was still afraid but I knew deep down inside that I could take this guy out. All of a sudden he attacked but since I was more relaxed,not caring what the outcome was, I found myself just flowing right in there putting a quick end to my opponent. It seemed that it was all of my basic instinct along with control because I hardly remember what I did but I was still standing. So I think that as long as you gain experience and learn to use fear and adrenaline to your advantage,and also have a very calm attitude towards this, your Kung fu training or any for that matter will come in handy. WHAT DO YOU THINK? /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif dewald_vincent@hotmail.com

Vincent Paul DeWald

[MonkeySlap Too]

I've never known a properly trained Kung Fu man to 'freeze'.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[Water Dragon]

Key phrase being "properly trained" /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Although there are many styles, they all depend on the strong beating the weak and the slow falling to the quick. These are not related to the power that must be learned -- Taiji Classics

[jojitsu27]

The first fight I got into after about a year of Wing Chun.....I got creamed. I fought this big 18 year old kid who outweighed me by 70lbs.
I basically tried to stand there and mount a simultaneious attack/defense without knowing any advanced footwork and he creamed me with mere boxing hooks.
Eventually, I learned over the years to make my Wing Chun alive and combat effective, and learning the advanced footwork helped.
A kung fu style is going to give you what you are willing to put into it. If you want to research what really works and see if your style can offer it to you, then you will have a combat effective Kung Fu style.
-jojitsu27

[Vince D.]

That is so true! That is what I learned after getting torn up in a fight on the street. My art of Kajukenbo is very good for the street though. That is why it is called the perfected art of dirty streetfighting. Because in a streetfight you do whatever you can to get out of there alive!

Vincent Paul DeWald

[Rolling Elbow]

My only contribution here is to think MOVEMENT ALL THE TIME...hit while you move and in transit to another hit...a moving target is hard to hit...people get creamed in part when they freeze up and stop moving or move away from everything...be strong in your movement and have your balance where you want it..if you get ko'd along the way- it isn't like it wasn;t going to happen anyway when you stood there and froze lol.

Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..

[Tekarius]

Speaking of street fighting, do you guys train muscle memory training? For example: for about half an hour, you and your partner punch and block.

[reemul]

What I want to know is, what kind of kung fu have you experienced "on the street" Shaolin(most likely not) or one of the many hundreds of styles of kung fu, or someone who just says they know kung fu. when I spar with other styles like JKD or other so called reality hybrids I tend to have an advantage, based on their lack of understanding
of what Shaolin Kung fu systems consist of. Most of the time I am likened to contemporary Wushu and greatly underated, thus the advantage. Even after their initial shock and they step it up a notch, I find myself more than adequently trained to deal with it.

So in the end, as it has been said so many times,
it is not the system that is at fault, it is the practioners inability to apply it.BigGrin

[JerryLove]

"After studying for a while with my Sigung he started getting into it more and more."

So you stopped studying under your teacher to study under *his* teacher?

[Vince D.]

IN MY ART WHICH IS KAJUKENBO, ONCE YOU HAVE REACHED 9TH DEGREE, YOU ARE QUALIFIED AS A SIGUNG.

Vincent Paul DeWald

[T]

Bottom line guys, if you want to be a good fighter - it's simple - FIGHT. Do not spend endless time on techniques, speed drills etc. - "FIGHT". However, being a long term martial artist with boxing skills and real street experience, fighting should not be the sole reason as to why we all study the arts - but we all know this.

[nickle]

i want to know what you people think about "fighting" firstly do you mean sparring? (ie a controlled enviroment) or actual street fighting?

secondly im going to assume you mean sparring, since getting into as many fights as possible will just give you a disfigured face. do you think that there should be a progressive approach to sparring (one hand... no feet... only feet... various ranges... etc) or should you start out on a chaos theory basis? also what do you think of using gear to spar... like gloves and pads and stuff...
ciao

-specialization is for ants-

[T]

First of all my post was intended to be somewhat facetious. Secondly, my point was, if you want to obtain better skills in a particular area whether that being sparring, forms or the real thing you should do just that. They all require very different experience and training, therefore we should never compare our sparring skills to the real thing or vise versa. Speaking from paest experience not handed down knowledge

[realkungfubrasil]

Hi fellows,
Yeah I believe so. At leaste, real traditional kung-fu, teached as a martial art not as one more silly combat-sport. What we practice here in our kwoon (Choy Li Fut + Xing-Yi) is very effective and all the movements have been teste in the reality of Rio in the last 20 years (I'm not joking). Unhappylessly the majority of the kung-fu schools in Brasil (90% of them have false si-fus, mother-****ers that bought their title in Hong Kong paying 5000 US$) don't know real kung-fu, so they peach katÃ*s (forms) and "fight"like ina kick-boxing ring tournament. This is ridiculous. Our styles means effectiveness + stances + hands-free (no gloves, urgh!!!) + traditions + a code of honour and sense of justice. I've been in several real situations and I'm still talking with you. I hope all the kung-fu students becomes again kung-fu fighters and keeps rise and up the traditional kwoons and styles.
Tahnks for the attention,
Long Live for our brave History!
Bruno

[HuangKaiVun]

I've never had to get into a streetfight, and kung fu is a big reason why.

Knowing how to avoid trouble altogether is the most important lesson of kung fu - and the ultimate means of "self defense".

[Rolling Elbow]

Kungfu and all arts only work on the street if YOU WANT THEM TO AND AREN'T AFRAID TO MAKE THEM WORK. If you rely on statements like "kajukenbo, kempo, taijutsu etc.. are often called the arts of refined street fighting" etc., it doesn't mean ****. If you back peddle in the street you are toast, if you move in and manipulate the attack with an offensive defense then you are making your system work for you and yes it does work on the street.Elbows,punches,knees and sound tactics are the same all across the board

Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..

[Knifefighter]

realkungfubrasil:
Being from Rio and having fought in the streets, I would assume you guys have run into a few battles against BJJ guys. How do these usually go down?

[yamato_damashii]

Freezing when confronted with violence has nothing to do with how much training of what type you've had in what style. It simply has to do with how mentally prepared you are for violence.

I think that everyone freezes the first time they are confronted with someone else initiating violence. For some, it happens when they are three years old, in a fight over a toy (or, in some cases, something more serious)--but the later it happens, the worse the freeze. And the more times it will take NOT to freeze.

One of the few nice things that I have to say about martial "sports" like judo randori and kickboxing is, at least they indoctrinate you to violence.

Jason C. Diederich

Co-Founder, Yiu Dai S'uun Ancient Martial Arts
10,316th generation Dai Soke in an unbroken line of NHB Shaolin Ninja Marine successors
<A HREF="http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/rightway/yamato_damashii/" TARGET="_blank">http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/rightway/yamato_damashii/</A>

[Knifefighter]

Speaking of freezing, here’s an interesting story about the time freezing up saved my butt. I was walking down the street pretty much minding my own business when a car screeched to a stop next to me. A ****ed off looking guy jumped out of the passenger side of the car and came right at me. My mind was screaming "Slam the door on him before he gets out of the car," but I froze and didn’t seem to be able to do anything except stand there. He started to come right at me, but still I couldn’t do anything. Just as I was sure he was going to nail me, he walked right past me and into the building behind me. About 10 seconds later, a police car drove up.

I was absolutely sure this guy was coming after me and, theoretically, I should have slammed the door on him as soon as he started to get out to come after me. I’ve often wondered what would have happened if I wouldn’t have frozen up in that instant.

[LEGEND]

KNIFEFIGHTER...you would have beat the **** out of him LOL!!! I had frozen up before in real fights to striking techs...when I was younger...I didn't know how to deal with haymakers...got tag...blocked it with my face...nowadays I train on it to make it instinctive in my ENTRY GRAPPLING attacks...my sparring partner with boxing gloves would throw jabs, crosses, hooks while I attempt to clinch or shoot in...after working on it many many times...you will in PRACTICE and in the STREET attack accordingly!!! Be sure to wear a face headgear while training...the first few times will sting!

A

[Knifefighter]

Yeah, that would have been great. Beating the crap out of some guy who probably didn’t even know I was there and having the police drive up just as I was doing so.
I can just see my trial now:
Judge to me: Had you ever seen the victim before in your life?
Me: No
Judge: What made you think that the victim was going to assault you?
Me: He got out of the car really fast and ran in my direction.
Judge to victim: Had you ever seen the defendant before?
Victim: No, never, your honor.
Judge: Did you get out of the car and quickly head in the defendant’s direction?
Victim: Yes, your honor, I was headed for a meeting and I was very late.
Judge to me: Are you a trained martial artist?
Me: Well, um, sort of.
Judge: You are sentenced to one year in the state penitentiary and five years probation.

[iamaloser]

The best fighter is one who can walk away unscathed.

[soy]

I havent even started my training in kung-fu, but I've been in a good number of street fights.. Mainly it was just lash out until the other person gives up.. I never won any of them though, so you shouldent take my word for it... I think any guidance as to technique would be helpful though..

[samoanheadbutt]

Have you ever thought about going to Carlsons or Barra Gracie?Pele Landis is one of the toughest fighters on the planet and his style is chute-boxe.I believe it is some type of luta livre.Anyhow you should go roll with the hundreds of schools in Brazil to diversify your fighting skillz.Rio is the mecca!

[samoanheadbutt]

ttt

[Laine Nakachi]

It does although,I myself never did get into any fight,yet in the streets.I've always prepared myself for it.It can happen any where and at any time.You just got to be prepared for it.If you can negotiate with the attacker , then do so.But if he just attacks you,then you're really going to do,what you don't want to do,hurt the attacker.

That's why, when ever you're alone and training in your own martial arts.Regardless of what it is,imagine yourself at anyplace,whether your at a bus stop , sitting down on a bench,sitting down or standing up in the bus.Or where ever you are.We all have to visualize this situations or circumstances in our minds.And from there figure out what techniques from your own martial arts system or style,you can really use in that situation.And from there practice the techniques from there , and be creative with your techniques.The more you prepare yourself, the better off you'll be in the streets.Condition your body and yourself,so just incase you happening to take on some tough,big,small attackers.Other than that you'll never know who your attacker will be,so be prepared for it.Take Care .

Sil Lum Kuen

[Abstract]

provided you're WILLING to throw down FOR REAL the instant the chips fall down. I've been in a few fights...once took some clown out who was much larger than me, but only 'cause I was ready when he wasn't. He threw a haymaker & his whole body lunged forward, I sidestepped & broke my hand on his head(literally)....knocked him straight OUT though....had to run before NYPD showed up...ended up getting sugery to fix my metacarpal bone....pins put in my hand, really sucked..but that's what i'm sayin, if i just stepped aside & let him recover, he woulda pummeled the MESS outta me. I'm far from Bruce Lee, but I WILL put the hurt on when push comes to shove. To echo what's already been said, you have to be WILLING to fight. If not, run, or u may get hurt real bad. a REAL fight is not fun....specially when u don't know this cat & he's trying to kill u. That junk sucks & can be a bit scary, but u gotta be ready to face that & willing to dish it out when the situation calls for it.

[peehoo]

Have you ever come across Hubudlibud (hubud)
Its a repetative drill that comes from fillapeno arts, one of the participants can change the basic drill at anytime and launch an attack, this tends to cause a change in feeling and promts a reactive defence. We do locks from it, basic entry, traps, counter punches. It works, sometimes i won't even know how the attack started but i get to the end result. It works out of the drill too. I had a friend who threw a light punch to test me ,it was unexpected i took it outside with my left and trapped him at the shoulder(he over extended), i suprised myself.
would you say this is muscle memory?

do without doing

[walkthecircle]

I think that if you are training in traditional kung fu your school has muscle memory built in. But few have the time/patience to train properly. 30 mins per technique everyday until it just happens.

Meaning that unless your technique "just happens" yo u have not trained enough.

[The Willow Sword]

the fights that i have been in on the street(not that many) i have forgotten my kung-fu training,just stared at the guy and then i blast his freakin groin and leg with these freakish stupid kicks and i just start punching his face and head and body over and over again calling him every name in the book..in the end i get hurt he gets hurt,,because i aggressed at him with blitzkrieg mentality he gets blodied up and is lying there trung to breath...man i donr play around when it comes to fighting,,in sparring its one thing but in a fight i am all buisiness,,,most of em were just rufflin thier feathers ,,but i committed to what they wanted.
later on i would cry and cry and sob like a girl and regret everything i had done to this person. thats why i do not go out on the street anymore,,im not 18 anymore and surley not a club hopper anymore either(former bouncer). peace love and flowers man!

[walkthecircle]

Only when your art is so ingrained into your subconscious that when you "freak out" only your style comes out is when you are beginning to master it.

If you study monkey or tiger or hsing yi you respond like that style. Without thought...it just happens.

If you don't...and respond the same as you have before training...you and your art have not become one yet.

Few people in modern times are willing to put in the time to truly become their art.

This is why the decline of kung fu has happened. It's not the art that's defective it's the practioners that only practice 2-3 times a week for fun. Even 2 hours a day every day is pale to the masters of old dedicating 8 hours to their practice daily.

[Scott]

Yes

"Life is hard, but so am I." -- The Eels.

[Losttrak]

Here's an example of my brother and I when we were young. My brother was a natural fighter before he ever took martial arts. I was a red-headed stepchild. His natural reaction to surprise was to strike. Mine was to scream like a little wuss. Over time I soon gained a certain calm with the unexpected, but that was the result of training. Deep down it has to do with our core values and personality. Another variable is how your mood is. There are literally times when I wish something would happen. Its really useless to dwell on how you will react or what you will do. If you train hard, and do your best I think street fighting ends up being a little less dramatic as you may expect. Usually its with some drunk guy who goes down after one punch since he can barely walk anyways. Or its some guy who was simply showing off by trying to beat you down. Watch out for the occasional professional ass beater who is looking for a notch in his belt. Best to avoid those since most experienced fighters would rather get hospitalized than live with an excruciating defeat.

[Armbreaker]

NO!!!!!!!!!!HAHAHA what a joke