View Full Version : Attn Wrestlers: Countering Penetration

11-16-2000, 02:44 AM
How do you counter a shot. What about crossface holds or stiff-arming the wrestler's shoulders as he shoots. Are these allowed in scholastic wrestling? I know there are penalties for stalling. Would stiff-arming instead of sprawling be considered a stall. Also Chris Clugston has a technique called the matador which is a fade and double-handed parry to the back of the shooters head and neck. Are wrestlers trained to deal with these defenses?

11-16-2000, 04:43 PM
do you know Clugston?
Just curious, I used to see him at Kenny Monday's wrestling school when it was still open. I use to take private wrestling lessons from Monday.
At the time Clugston was training to get into the UFC, he said, but I think it fell through and they never took him.

11-16-2000, 05:54 PM
Cool, the "matador" move you just described is one of American Kenpo's most heavily used moves against a shoot. (We call it Chargin Ram.) I've had some luck with against the Machado guys I roll with but no I can't get it to work against a partner of mine that studies Greco Roman style. When he shoot, he almost always goes for hand contact with my elbows first before going to my waist and around me. (He also has no neck.) Against him, I sprawl.


11-16-2000, 05:57 PM
I don't know him personally. I post on his board every once in a while. He usually answers. Problem is there's 5 or 6 people with my name so I doubt he knows who I am. I've got his 1st and 2nd sets of tapes and I enjoyed the hell out of them. Did they train you to deal with stiff-arms and cross-face holds or are those illegal techniques? BTW Are you the same JoJitsu that used to post on Mousel's? That guy posted some hilarious stuff.

11-16-2000, 05:59 PM
Thanks Jon!

How do you follow up after a sprawl?

11-20-2000, 06:43 PM
I do what I can to apply pressure down and in to the back of the neck of the opponent with my inside arm. If they aren't too far in, standing guilotine. I've always been surprised at how often I can get this in against the inexperienced. But far more often, I can get what Judoka call the "elevator" in. Hooking under the opponent's outside arm and pulling up and in while I continue the neck pressure. It's pretty basic, but I'm pretty basic with my wrestling. This technique does seem to turn most people or at least keep them from getting to my back. It really works against people who are trying to tackle or deep clinch without any real wrestling experience.

And I could use some advice here. I have no regular wresling teacher, just one class every couple of months on basics just to stay fresh, and some seminars. But I roll regularly. One of the guys I regularly roll with, now my uncle in law, is a much more experienced grappler than I am. My biggest problem with him is the suplex. Both front and rear. The second he gets a hold around my waist he's going for it. I'm having increasing success keeping him from my back, but Monday I took the front suplex (thank GOD for a soft mat!). Any advice on nixing it the front suplex from a more exprienced grappler that has about 40lbs of muscle on me?


11-20-2000, 09:08 PM
Thanks Jon

I can only speculate on how to deal with a suplex. If it's a belly to belly you might try a chin jab? I dont mean striking him with it just using your open palm uo under his chin to push his head up and back. You might also try using the "frame" from BJJ. Pu the boney part of the outside of your wrist up under his nose and grind away. I've always liked the way that Sumo wrestlers do a straight blast with open palm strikes to the body. That might force him to change levels before he could grab you.

Hope this helps.

11-20-2000, 09:46 PM
Thanks for the advice.

I just had lunch with a class mate.
His suggestion was to use another basic Kenpo technique, called Tripping Arrow. Basically, grab his shoulder and pull down with that side arm (I'd use my right hand to pull down his left shoulder) while stepping to the side you're pulling down on (in this case, my right. As you do this, push the head over with the opposite hand (left in this case) to the side your are pulling down (his left in this case). This should nullify any backward motion, as he must lean to his side. Also, it sets you up for a great leg sweep and throw.
However, I am worried about him just throwing his shoulder down and knocking me over.

I'll give this one a try in class with my friend tonight, and try it on my unlce next Monday.

I'll also try the frame, but I'm sceptical as his head and neck must go back quickly anyway to perform the suplex.


If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

11-26-2000, 06:02 PM
Well, the counter I mentioned above, Tripping Arrow, worked. But he fell weird and I didn't get out of the way. Result, my first broken bone of the year occured when his knee landed on my foot. And it also twisted the living sh!t out of my ankle.


If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV