View Full Version : Attn Wrestlers: Countering Penetration

11-17-2000, 01:51 AM
How do you counter a shot. What about crossface holds or stiff-arming the wrestler's shoulders as he shoots. Are these allowed in scholastic wrestling? I know there are penalties for stalling. Would stiff-arming instead of sprawling be considered a stall. Also Chris Clugston has a technique called the matador which is a fade and double-handed parry to the back of the shooters head and neck. Are wrestlers trained to deal with these defenses? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

11-17-2000, 02:49 AM
I would say yes, they are most likely prepared for those. I learned those techniques (or slight variations) from a couple of wrestlers as shot defenses along with the sprawl. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try them. They showed me those techniques because they worked when they used them, and for me to be aware of it if I shoot in.

Rolling Elbow
11-17-2000, 05:39 AM
Get ready to drive your thumbs into the neck,chest, and rib area of a wrestler and grappler. They have speed and power...might as well get dirty with a bit of technique on the street /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

REmember, the way they train and compete has become the way they fight.."fight like you train".. A friend of mine was an awesome wrestler..still is. His striking sucked though, and when he fought, I heard stories of him putting people inleg logs on the street haha...this guy is quick though and I have sen him bring down guys that out weighed him by 50 pounds

Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..

11-17-2000, 06:29 AM
I've wrestled for 30 years, and coached for 20. Perhaps I can answer your questions.

First, the most important defense to a leg shoot is stance. Most MA's have poor stances against wrestling attacks. Most wrestlers have a very strong offensive/defensive stance with knees, hips and shoulders in line. When one body part goes out of line, the stance is broken and the wrestler is vulnerable. If you stay in a proper stance, it is quite difficult to penetrate well for an effective shoot. If you are in a good stance, then you can counter with a strightarm type move.

If penetration occurs, however, a straight arm is useless. In that instance, your primary defense is to sprawl and cross face, overhook or tie up the far ankle, depending on whether the head is on the outside (crossface), head is on inside (overhookor ****zer as its sometimes called) or if it is very deep, ankle tie up. It is very hard to keep being offensive when a tight crossface or overhook is on, and a good ankle tie can bring you flat on your belly. Sometimes, if the shot is sloppy and the arms are spread, a double underhook (sometimes called a cowcatcher) will work. This flips the attacker onto his back.

In any event, once the offensive wrestler is stopped, you can counter attack with whatever method you choose.

I want to stress, however, that your stance is of utmost importance. Once a good wrestler gets an effective shoot on you, you are most likely going down. What happens after that is up for grabs.

11-17-2000, 10:06 PM
Thanks Guys! Law Dragon. 30 years! Wow! What draws you to a martial arts forum?

11-19-2000, 12:09 AM
What draws me to MA now? Perhaps a bit of midlife crisis.

I don't have the time or body to compete hard in wrestling anymore. I was a GR specialist and my body won't take it anymore. I'm 50 pounds heavier that I competed in the 70's and I can't train 6 hours a day like I did back then. I've coached wrestling ever since and sometimes it gets hard to be around tournaments and not compete, particularly since my son (he's 12) is about at the stage where he's ready to compete nationally in his age group. There are "masters" tournaments (35 and over) but they are in the big cities, not in my area.

I was chatting with a client one day and learned he ran a school focusing on a non-traditional style of king fu mixed with shoshin ryu and some other styles. My son wanted to try it so we gave it a shot. Actually, it has sparked me to start training a bit and get in shape to the point where my son and I are going to enter a multi-style tournament this winter.

By the way, any advice before a first tournament?

11-19-2000, 02:52 AM
Is it a point tournament? If it is then you might have to tolerate some biased judging.

On the other hand if it's a SanShou or KuoShu tournament then you should ask David Ross for his advice. His screen name is LKFMDC. He's a competitor and trainer. The only thoughts I can offer is to say that your wrestling experience should take you a long way in that format.

To make a good showing in point tournaments:
Concentrate on using your lead side. Throw alot of lead backfists, sidekicks and roundkicks. Kiai every time you throw a technique. It gets the judges' attention. Also get in the habit of slapping your body or leg every time you throw a technique. This will create the sound of impact. You may get points for blows that don't actually land. EX: When you throw a lead backfist slap your rear thigh with your rear hand. Lastly if you plan on actively competing try to build experience at the smaller tournaments. It will give you a chance to get to know some of the other fighters and judges.

Hope this helps and Good Luck!