Went to the WKF championships last night.

[rogue]

Just some observations...

1) I have a lot of training to do...

2) Judging from the ice packs and severe limps on the winners, there has to be a better way to block low kicks.

3) Any sport where you have to block low kicks with your shins all night is nuts.:eek:

4) The Jaw Ga folks do very pretty forms, still can't tell if they can fight.

5) Don't do any forms where you wave a fan.

6) I hate demos with kids. There was a demo last night where the kids looked like mini Kobra Kai. They did a nunchuk kata that didn't have one actual chuk technique. Just lots of swinging and yelling. Afterwards they posed with the ring girls.

7) A side kick gives alot of bang for the buck. Watched a guy beat almost everyone of his opponents round kicks with a side kick. At least two of the kicks knocked the opponent on his butt and most knocked him back.

8)Heavyweights seem to resort more to brawling type tactics when winded.

9)Middleweights seem to have the best balance of technique and power.

10)Mike Moses did a very nice BJJ demo. I'll even go as far as to say it was smooth and beautiful. They were smiling and having fun in contrast to the serious looks of the kobra kai and Jaw ga kids.

11) The music they play during Muay Thai bouts is annoying.

12) I'm so tired of seeing a fighters crew, most of who do nothing, doing the Gracie train when coming to the ring.

13) 1) I have a lot of training to do...

[Watchman]

11) The music they play during Muay Thai bouts is annoying.

Blasphemer!!


5) Don't do any forms where you wave a fan.

*slowly puts fan away*


10)Mike Moses did a very nice BJJ demo.

How did he go about demoing BJJ?

[ZhouJiaQuan]

where was this tournament?


4) The Jaw Ga folks do very pretty forms, still can't tell if they can fight.

Blasphemer... its *Jow* Ga btw ;)

[Kristoffer]

"""6) I hate demos with kids. There was a demo last night where the kids looked like mini Kobra Kai. They did a nunchuk kata that didn't have one actual chuk technique. Just lots of swinging and yelling. Afterwards they posed with the ring girls."""

= ) Ring girls rules

""""7) A side kick gives alot of bang for the buck. Watched a guy beat almost everyone of his opponents round kicks with a side kick. At least two of the kicks knocked the opponent on his butt and most knocked him back."""

This, I have noticed aswell



11) The music they play during Muay Thai bouts is annoying.

What Watchman said ; )

[rogue]

ZhouJiaQuan, Richmond area, Deep Run High School. The Jow ga guy doing the fan form was pretty good and got a big pop when he did this flip off of his head, but every time he snapped open that fan and waved in front of his face like Scarlet O'Hara the comments were traded. I think given the venue a nice two man form would have gone over well. I won't take anything away from what he did as he must have trained his baxide off to do that form.


How did he go about demoing BJJ?By sticking his thumbs in his belt, sticking out his chin and proclaiming "BJJ Rules!" He then sewed 12 bad boy patches and a brazilian flag onto his kimono in 63 seconds. Very impressive. :D

Mike had a partner and they just kind of flowed from take down, to counter to counter to arm bar. Reminded me of flow drills Aikidoka do but this was mostly on the ground. As a parent, based on all the demos they had I'd pick the BJJ as they seemed to be having the most fun.

[ZhouJiaQuan]

ahh, i know who it was. that form is nice(very,very nothern set), he does work hard... there are some tough fighters from that school too :D

they also have tons of fun training, real nice school and people training there.

Peace

[rogue]

That's good to hear ZhouJiaQuan, one day I'll have to check them out. I don't think what they do is for me, but I always like to see new things. Props to the guy for doing some moves that very few in the building, myself especially, could dream of pulling off.

[truewrestler]

"Any sport where you have to block low kicks with your shins all night is nuts"

Come up with a better option and thousands of kickboxers over the last hundreds of years will be very thankful :p

[norther practitioner]

5) Don't do any forms where you wave a fan.
ehem... watch it buddy....lol


1) I have a lot of training to do...
Me too

[rogue]

Come up with a better option and thousands of kickboxers over the last hundreds of years will be very thankful OK, WTF/Olympic TKD. All the kicking you want without the shin damage. As a bonus you save money on hand wraps and gloves!:D


Don't do any forms where you wave a fan. I think the guys making the snide remarks were from a local TKD school. ;)

A someone into the martial arts I was disappointed in the turnout, especially it being championships. I've seen better draws at point tournaments and even belt testings. No one in my school knew about it and I didn't see a large showing from the local gyms that were fighting or even the schools of those who were demoing.
As an audience member it also got a bit boring after the first 9 fights or so. I was even hoping maybe some monks would do circus tricks or some guy would do an empty force demo. For $20 a ticket I thought they could have done better. A nice sanda or san shou exibition fight would have been real sweet.

[mysteri]

hey rogue, thanx for the post, hope u enjoyed the tournament. actually, most of the guys from the richmond jow ga school are pretty good fighters as well(a pretty much rare occurence). their sifu learned wushu and shaolinquan(among other things) before he learned jow ga, so he seems to know how to bring the elaborate side of the forms out well. although before that, he was already a pretty accomplished boxer and fighter. so those students have a not so common blend of a beautiful butterfly w/ the sting of a bee for a teacher.

so i take we can look foward to seein u @ the upcomin tournament in washington,DC? we'll all be attendin, and we'll be competin in beginner, intermediate, advanced and senior divisons, so u'll get a better idea of how we spar. then again, its only sparrin, so u might not get that good of an idea. hope to see u up there, better yet it'd be great to compete against ya. good luck.

[rogue]

mysteri, what kind of tourny in DC and what are the details? The next one I'm going to try to hit is the Excalibre one in August. But I'd love to see you guys in action.
Do you know of any reason why they didn't do something to really show the applications side of the style? To me forms and kata are just a series of moves without knowing the context of the techniques.


better yet it'd be great to compete against ya The way I'm going lately I couldn't compete against my granny. :D I need a hulluva lot more gym time, ring time and conditioning.

[GeneChing]

You need one of these (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/16-06.html) :D

[truewrestler]

Originally posted by rogue
[B] OK, WTF/Olympic TKD. All the kicking you want without the shin damage. As a bonus you save money on hand wraps and gloves!:D
I mean another defense for leg kicks :)

[rogue]

I mean another defense for leg kicks Taking up a sport where some guy is not trying to break your legs is a great defense!:D

LOL Gene.:)

[Fu-Pau]

I take it the "W" in WKF Championship stands for "World"?
Were there any competitors from outside the US?

[mysteri]

rogue

thanx for the reply. i hope ur not lookin for tiger claws and panther strikes, cuz of course its jus a tournament. the richmond sifu seems to favor a lot of the northern aspects so thats prolly how u will see them fight. of course i can't speak for everyone, and i don't expect that we'll simply SWEEP the tournament, but i can definitely say that we're not simply forms specialist. the kind of techniques u may see would be mainly san da type techniques.

about the tournament ( http://wongchineseboxing.com/2003tournament.html ). a tournament geared toward traditional styles. this will be my first year @ this particular tournament, though my school has competed in years past. though we've only managed to come in 2nd and 3rd as far as tournament rankin as a school. sifu yee chi wai definitely has some tough competitors(i've seen the video footage). so this year, i don't even really expect to place in forms. but i'll be happy to be in top 3, if not win my division. i think i'll play by the rules in this tournament. we'll jus see how much they **** me off :)

don't u study TKD or somethin? i wouldn't really expect to compete against u really. but i hope u enjoy the tournament if u come.

fu-pau,
hey bro, i see u study jow ga in australia. who's ur sifu? if u'd prefer, u can PM me and we can chat. good to see more jow/chow bros poppin up.

[Fu-Pau]

Originally posted by mysteri
fu-pau,
hey bro, i see u study jow ga in australia. who's ur sifu? if u'd prefer, u can PM me and we can chat. good to see more jow/chow bros poppin up.

Mysteri,

Good to see a fellow chow gar brother! :)

I can't PM you coz I'm at work and therefore don't have the PM option switched on.
As for my Sifu, since he is very traditional and I have so much respect for him, I made the conscious decision not to name him in public forums. The reason is that my opinions here are merely that, my opinions, and I do not want people to attribute anything that I may say to my Sifu, or more to the point for anything that I may say to reflect badly upon my Sifu.

If you don't mind saying whom your Sifu is I would be interested to know? If you don't wish to say, that's ok I understand.

I was curious though that you had used the quote of a CLF Sifu in your signature? Do you know Sifu Lacey?

[Merryprankster]

LIGHT contact sparring? 30 second rounds? Blood drawn is disqualification? No contact to the head, basically? WTF?!

WongChineseBoxing tournament sparring rules...

Why bother?

[Jowbacca]

Cuz last year we had too many people being taken out on stretchers and until we get insurance issues sorted out for full contact; we don't want to be known as "the bloodbath tournament".

[quiet man]

Originally posted by Fu-Pau
I take it the "W" in WKF Championship stands for "World"?
Were there any competitors from outside the US?

Outside the US? Where's that? :D

[Merryprankster]

Cuz last year we had too many people being taken out on stretchers and until we get insurance issues sorted out for full contact; we don't want to be known as "the bloodbath tournament".

A fair answer!!!

[rogue]

LIGHT contact sparring? 30 second rounds? Blood drawn is disqualification? No contact to the head, basically? WTF?! Exactly the kind of fighting I train for!


don't u study TKD or somethin? i wouldn't really expect to compete against u really. I smell fear!

Whoops never mind, it was just me. Whoa, one too many burritos! :eek:

BTW, I was at the WKA championships not the WKF

[Royal Dragon]

Cuz last year we had too many people being taken out on stretchers and until we get insurance issues sorted out for full contact; we don't want to be known as "the bloodbath tournament".

Reply]
See, Kung Fu is NOT too brutal for the ring!!! Seriously, STRETCHERS??? How many MMA guys get taken out on stretchers anyway?

[Merryprankster]

Oh, for god's sake it was funny before, but now it's just old!

[rogue]

Maybe he meant stretch limos. I watched 4 hours of kickboxing and except for one guy who was really gassed everyone walked or limped out on their own power.

He could be right Merry, if the fighters are not trained properly (mucho contact sparring, contact drills, learning how to take a hit and cardio) they may just leave themselves open enough to get hit with a lucky shot.

[mysteri]

Originally posted by Fu-Pau


Mysteri,

Good to see a fellow chow gar brother! :)

I can't PM you coz I'm at work and therefore don't have the PM option switched on.
As for my Sifu, since he is very traditional and I have so much respect for him, I made the conscious decision not to name him in public forums. The reason is that my opinions here are merely that, my opinions, and I do not want people to attribute anything that I may say to my Sifu, or more to the point for anything that I may say to reflect badly upon my Sifu.

If you don't mind saying whom your Sifu is I would be interested to know? If you don't wish to say, that's ok I understand.

I was curious though that you had used the quote of a CLF Sifu in your signature? Do you know Sifu Lacey?

tiger/cougar

i respect ur wish not to disclose any information about ur sifu, wise decision. as for myself, i believe that as long as i have frequented public forums, its jus been "understood" that all of my views and opinions r my own and do not reflect my school or teacher. if u would like to know, u can check my profile.

about sifu lacey, a lot of people have asked me if i know him. for the record, no i do not. i came upon that quote while visiting his website one day by chance. u know how some things jus seem to speak to ur heart? i think that it simply expresses my general opinion about my kung fu training.

now that we've met eachother's aquaintence, please do not be coy to contact me and stay in touch if u would like to chat. i think that there is a jow ga tournament comin up next year in germany. i'm hopin to be able to go. of course, it would be great to see all of the jow ga family together getting along (somethin most families aspire to do). i think that we r too young of an art to start tearin apart, really.

[mysteri]

Originally posted by rogue
Maybe he meant stretch limos. I watched 4 hours of kickboxing and except for one guy who was really gassed everyone walked or limped out on their own power.

He could be right Merry, if the fighters are not trained properly (mucho contact sparring, contact drills, learning how to take a hit and cardio) they may just leave themselves open enough to get hit with a lucky shot.

rogue, i agree. if most people trained properly then they would be "prepared" for these tournament situations. i think that solo drills, partner drills, sparring drills, free-sparring(eventually), etc... in addition to other condition methods would better prepare people to be able to use their kung fu applicably. there's a difference btwn ur gung fu bein practical and applicable. only U can make it applicable for urself through ur own training, struggle, progress(a constant cycle) and overall EXPERIENCE! otherwise, i think most people r simply foolin themselves.

btw- do u mind if i inquire about ur own trainin(maybe what style[s])? did u USED to train cuz i remember u said u were a lil outa shape :) its good to see some healthy constructive criticism on this forum for a change as opposed to ego-driven d**k-measurin contests used to fill someone's own need for security. more people should learn from ur example.<bow>

[rogue]

mysteri, took a "short" break which turned into a long break to handle family and a few injuries. I'm just easing back into training and doubt I'll hit the level I was at when I quit. And the training I did was no where near the level as guys like MerryPrankster, Oso, ST00, Sevenstar or many others here. But I'm back with my TKD instructor, hitting the gym and will be starting privates with a karate instructor soon. Just trying to make somekind of progress over time.


more people should learn from ur example See my "Can BJJ save Kung Fu" thread to dispell that opinion. :D

[mysteri]

good to hear that ur easin back into trainin. the first step is decidin that u want to start training(which we all do) the NEXT step is to actually start, and the last step is to stick with it. so see? ur already more than halfway there!!

i don't have to read ur other thread(about BJJ), we all have our opinions. its good that ur jus startin TKD and then startin private karate. its really the fact ur tryin to get back into the swing of trainin that counts.

but when ur ready for some REAL martial arts trainin, we'll be waitin in our kung fu kwoons! :D (see we're ALL opinionated!)

(p.s. jus stay away from the wushu gyms, find a nice traditional kung fu kwoon where real fighters are and challenge some of them jus to make sure the school's up to par ;) )

[Fu-Pau]

Mysteri

Thanks for the kind words

(BTW Fu Pau means tiger leopard from 'fu pau kuen' the Chow Gar tiger leopard form)

will try to stay in touch… but dunno about getting to Germany, could be a bit expensive!

Anyway gotta run
:)

[mysteri]

Originally posted by Fu-Pau
Mysteri

Thanks for the kind words

(BTW Fu Pau means tiger leopard from 'fu pau kuen' the Chow Gar tiger leopard form)

will try to stay in touch… but dunno about getting to Germany, could be a bit expensive!

Anyway gotta run
:)

thanx fu/pao. actually, the only reason i say that is b/c my sifu uses leopard/cougar/panther kinda interchangbly. when he wants to see the form, he says,"lemme see ur tiger/cougar." i don't know the form for myself as i'm still pretty new to jow ga, but hopefully one day i'll learn. i would think that it encompasses the essence of our system very well, but i'll learn soon enough. how do u feel about it? what form(s) do u prefer and what're ur thoughts of our system as a whole? if u want, u can e-mail me.(btw- i would recommend checkin out www.forumco.com/hungkuennet if ur interested in a less congested forum w/ good quality info and less BS)

[Fu-Pau]

Mysteri,

I haven't learned fu pau kuen yet either… I will one day though, but it is (I am told) the 'signature' set of Chow Gar.
My favourite sets are (in no apparent order) Seung Karp Tan (double and single ended staff), Siew Yeng Jow (young eagle claw), Maan Ji (10 thousand movements?) Kwan (staff), Seung Do (double sword), Ying Cheung (spear), Lohan Kuen, Gok Chi…and others… but then I don't not like any of them…

My views on Chow Gar are that it is an exceptionally well rounded and versatile style, which combines an almost perfect balance of close, medium, and long range techniques and principles as well as northern and southern kung fu.

The fact that it is (in my experience) rare for Chow Gar practitioners to be cross trainers with another external style (though many may do tai chi as well) speaks volumes for its completeness as a system.

I hope you get as much out of it as I have, and continue to do.

What sets have you learned so far and which is/are your favourite(s)?

[mysteri]

i agree, jow ga is the first chinese martial art i formally learned and i'm glad i found it. i think u said exactly what sums it up as bein a great system- its versatility. in my lineage(jow lung-->jow biu-->chan man cheung--> etc..) the southern aspects are more predominant as my sifu teaches it, but also noted are the northern aspects(u can see both of which in everyday practice). i personally like the footwork, stance/root trainin, and how we deal w/ incomin power and different ways we issue power. a really unique synthesis.

i only know a few empty hand forms, weapons, and two-man sets. i prefer to train more combat. but i know "sei ping kuen"(square horse fist),"sai fu fok"(subduing small tiger),"moi fa kuen"(one northern set, one southern), learning "siu hung kuen"(small hung fist),"fu mei dahn dao"(tigertail broadsword),"seurng dao gwan"(double head staff), "moi fa churn"(plum blossom spear), and some 2 man sets. i'm really tryin to jus take my time on learnin forms and spend more time now in sparrin trainin, drills, conditionin methods, etc.. to focus more inward.

i would like to learn tiger/crane, tiger/cougar, "sup ji kuen"(cross hands), and "sap ying kuen"(5 animals/5 elements). anything else along the way would be nice, but i'd like to know those forms at least.

[Jowbacca]

Dunno if that sarcasm was targeted at me, but as much as I hate continuous sparring; one thing that's no joke is the injuries.

When you got a situation like ShifuBinks was describing in another thread; ie: 35 year old father of 2 thinking he can try his stuff out in a safe manner; while a 23 year old young blood who's too skyeered for full contact decides he's gonna play Tank Abbot; then there's GOING to be injuries.

My memory's kinda fuzzy on exactly how many broken bones & how much blood was flowing last year, but it was more than a little.

If the rules seem any more strict this year; or any more emphasized, it's because we don't want that type of stuff to happen this year.

And RD... if that was sarcasm about us and our tournament; maybe you should ask your old sifu who we are. If you're seriously using the fact that full contact stresses "defend yourself at all times", which helps to avoid injuries common to medium contact events; as a selling point for medium contact, then you really are that big of an idiot.

[mysteri]

light-contact sparrin is jus what its intended to be, LIGHT CONTACT! the only reason it gets outa hand is when it becomes a d**k measuring contest. of course, u a VERY limited in techniques and power. but quite honestly, if u don't like the rules don't play the game. now me personally, this is simply one of the few opportunities through out the year that i have to be able to see an actual kung fu tournament and fight actual "kung fu" fighters, so i'll jus take what i can get. i would always encourage anyone who gripes about the format of a tournament to try and start their own and take the necessary steps to form it how they'd like. but until then...

p.s. jowbacca, this isn't any offense to ur tournament. i know it takes LOTS of money and LOTS of manpower to try and run an event like this, so kudo's to the WCBA for takin up such a task that many would not.

[Jowbacca]

thanx cous' :D

[Fu-Pau]

Mysteri/Jowbacca,

I was flicking through the websites of a couple of the Jow Ga schools in the US the other night (as you do) … and I couldn't help noticing a slight undertone of some politics creeping into the Jow Ga family in the US? Am I wrong or what is with that? Or is it best not to re-open old wounds? Probably…
I would hate to think that Chow Gar/Jow Ga in the US suffered from the unnecessary political rubbish that some other styles have suffered from in recent years.

Cheers
Fu Pau

[mysteri]

mr fu pau,

well sir, i'll put it this way- as long as there's more than one person in a family, there's eventually bound to be some disagreement among them. however, the family shouldn't air dirty laundary, and shouldn't allow that to break them apart. eventually, regardless of whatever quarrells there may be, we are all as said before, "one family!"

p.s. do u have e-mail? mine is jowmysteri@yahoo.com . u can shoot me ur e-mail through there if u'd prefer not to post it on here. thanx in advance.