8 Step and Best Mantis Training

[ChuanFa631987]

Hey Everyone this is my first thread.

I was wondering what you all thought of 8 Step Praying Mantis.
Do you think it's superior to other styles of Praying Mantis? I know the answer to that questions has a lot of variables, but what are your guys thoughts? It's seems to be a lot more complete and refined that other styles.

Also is there a difference between PM from Taiwan and China?
If I wanted the best training would going to Taiwan or China be a good choice?

Later

[GOT'EM]

If it is superior then why are there other stlyes of mantis?Taiwan and China have different stlyes of mantis.So why train over there if 8step is more complete?Each style of mantis brings something to the table that the other styles do not.It does'nt make any better or worse.A practitoner can be superior to another,but it does'nt make the stlye superior.

[ursa major]

Welcome to the board ChuanFa631987.

8 Step, Shiny Board, 7 Star, 6 Harmony, etc, etc... these are different roads leading to the same place. IMO 8 Step is not superior and not inferior, it is Praying Mantis, enough said.

Are you currently training in PM ?

regards,
UM.

[Tainan Mantis]

Here is an old pic of Su Yuzhang doing a kick from one of the 8 Step Jai Yao forms.

This is unique to 8 Step

[ursa major]

Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
Here is an old pic of Su Yuzhang doing a kick from one of the 8 Step Jai Yao forms.

This is unique to 8 Step

Hello Tainan that is amazing athletics in that pic. Did you or do you know this person ? Also, is he kicking downwards with the inside of the ankle targeting the brachial region or is he kicking upwards like a vertical side kick ?

thx,
UM.

[Tainan Mantis]

UM,
I have never met him. He is in his 60's now.

I don't think it is effective as a sidekick since all the weight is on the wrist.
More likely is that it is a way to do a takedown.

[count]

Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
UM,
I have never met him. He is in his 60's now.

I don't think it is effective as a sidekick since all the weight is on the wrist.
More likely is that it is a way to do a takedown.
I have met him several times. That's a great pic BTW. Even in his sixties he hasn't lost a beat. Master Su is still the fastest man on the planet.:cool: I tend to agree, it's probably a take down.
A current pic (http://www.privacyplease.net/chikungintl.com/images/duo.jpg)

[argentino]

FYI. That black and white picture of shifu Su Yu Zhang was taken by a friend of mine in Venezuela in the early 80's.

Best regards

Fernando

[count]

Found this picture (http://crane.50megs.com/mantis6.jpg) online and I thought I'd post it. It's an application for the pic Tainan Mantis posted. :D

[Oso]

Tainan,

fwiw, I have that 'kick' in one of the forms I've been taught as a mantis form and the application was taught as a takedown. I think I have found an old clip of SYC doing Lian Jie(sp?) where he does that at the end of the set. Anyone else seen this?

[Youngmantis]

There is a difference between taiwain and china, when China was taken over by communists, they forced the people not to train in traditional kung fu, so they had to train in wushu, which is more of just exhibition kung fu. So many instructors left to taiwain so they could still practice their kung fu without being arrested. Thats why Wu Tan if any of you heard of it, are schools that mix in a bunch of kung fu styles to preserve each and every one.

[CaptinPickAxe]

anyone know of any mantis in the denver area?

[Stacey]

Denver has great JMA schools. A very good Aikido school.

About 8 step. I used to train in it religiously and still do in my spare time. I moved away and can only come by once a year when I get time off from work. Anyways I'm no expert, but I'll try to answer based on your questions. For answers from an expert go to info@8step.com

8 step is like a the United States, you can look at one part like California, Alaska, Miami, Texas or NYC and think you know what its like, but in reality your only seeing bits of it and every part seems like another entity of its own, but each would be little on its own, the entire infrastructure is what makes it effective.

It is better than other mantis styles? Is America better than Europe? Depends on where you go and what your looking for.

As for Grandmaster Shyun. I read an interview by him and he said that he was a strong believer in forms and two man forms changed at random to train students effectively.

Taiwanese Mantis, Chinese Mantis or American Mantis are the same, the question is how compitent is the teacher and how good is the student.

For me, 8 step techniques have takes me far beyond my personal ability and intelligence to defeat people I probably shouldn't have.

[Tainan Mantis]

Oso,
Didn't you say you thought that what you learned was Mimen PM?

Some of these ground fighting techniques are in that 7th Zhai Yao.

Also, I have just seen a valuable manuscript from Song Zide's student which includes these kicks in it's 7th Zhai Yao.

The Luanjie form you mention does not have this kick at the end.
Many years ago Su Yuzhang performed Luanjie with some other similar type kicks at the end.

My Shrfu said those where from 7th Zhai Yao, but Su may have added them from Ditang Chuen.

Someone will have to ask Su himself.

Argentino and Count,
Thanks for the info.

[Oso]

Tainan: Yes, that's what I was told. The form this kick/takedown is in was taught to me simply as "monkey". It is characterized by very, very low stances, several takedowns/throws, rolling for evasion & rolling with kicks to downed opponents.

I work for a school (educational type) and the summer has ben hella crazy. I will hopefully get to catch up with you soon. Thanks.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Sifu Eric Bernsdorf has a Wah Lum school in Denver.
www.wahlumdenver.com
info@wahlumdenver.com
Phone: 303.799.9888

[Stacey]

oso- Its called "monkey" because many of Jiang Hua Long's ground techniques were taken from monkey style ground fighting.

Lots of leg breaking from what I can see.

[Oso]

stacey -- sure, that makes sense. but, I havn't run across any other listing of mantis forms that are simply titled ''monkey''.

I've had no traditional chinese nomenclature with any of the mantis I've learned. That's what I get from learning mantis in the southern Appalachian's I guess.;) And my 'line' stops dead two caucasians back w/ no known connection to any known line of secret door or 8 step.(as seen at the mantis cave). hence the search...

and, yea, there are two moves in the set that are specifically leg traps to knee breaking takedowns.