Wing Chun and JKD

[KingMonkey]

Just posted this in the JKD section, thought some people here might have some useful perspective on this also.........


I currently train WC but am seriously considering training JKD as well. Initially I intend to train both. My motivations for wanting to train JKD in no particular order are.

- more training in general
- I dislike the WC footwork and rightly or wrongly believe JKD teaches more fluid natural, boxing style footwork
- I think chi-sau is a useful drill teaching good skills but there is IMHO a massive over reliance on it in WC
- I want more sparring practice
- I want a more intense physical aspect to my training
- I think forms training (beyond the point where you're able to perform the techniques to a reasonable standard) is wasted time.

I'm interested in opinions on cross training the two styles and whether JKD is likely to address some of the above frustrations I have with WC.

Thanks

[kj]

Based on your requirements, it sounds like JKD is a better fit for you. Why even worry about cross training in Wing Chun?

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[PaulH]

Ernie can provide you good answer on this, but the two can be complementary as they deal with different aspects of combat. If the totality of combat is a wheel, then WC & JKD are just two spokes that support it. Just don't confuse what they are- separate but complementary to a whole. Many fine JKD instructors learn WC to balance their training.

Regards,

[Ernie]

KingMonkey

sounds like you want to express your individual self and have some fun:D

as there is really bad wing chun and good wing chun , there is also bad jkd and a few good

becarful were you go

if you want foot work and long range skills = stick and knife sparring no other way around it , boxing footwork by itself will leave your lead leg as a target . but boxing footwork adapted to someone tagging you with a kali stick in the shin will speed up your attributes and aliveness

this is a very deep and technical subject pm me if you want more information

i trained in both literaly from the same start date , just happened to meet two instructers that day . one wing chun and one jkd , i was lucky or cursed .

later they both conterdictad each other so much [ at least at my level of understanding at the time ] that i dropped jkd all together to dive deeper into wing chun .
no that i have become more natural with the wing chun they are both the same just different power sources and tools in respect to range .

no i only study wing chun but stike and knife spar once a week with my jkd friends .
they two seem to complement each other as long as your head is in the right place

the filipino concepts and the wing chun are like brother and sister
one can counter or help the other
the jkd drills will improve your balance and adaptability faster in the begining then wing chun but in the end it all comes down to your sensitivity

my formula is to play with jkd but to view it through a wing chun filter .
pm me if you want details

[Ultimatewingchun]

I've always believed that Traditional Wing Chun looks more like Jeet Kune Do than other forms of Wing Chun. Every reason for frustration that you listed in your first post is "covered" in TWC. Check out the Understanding TWC thread for the posts on theory, footwork, technique, etc. and judge for yourself.

Also check out the book written by William Cheung and Ted Wong together that is a comparison of TWC and JKD.

Chi sao is not overdone in TWC and Sparring drills and actual spontaneous contact sparring are given their due place as well.

[[Censored]]

I'm interested in opinions on cross training the two styles and whether JKD is likely to address some of the above frustrations I have with WC.

My opinion is that you have no frustrations with WC, you have frustrations with your current class and/or instructor. Which is fine, but let's call a duck a duck.

You say you don't like WC footwork. Please elaborate.

[foolinthedeck]

and while we are at it.
the 'drill' or chi sau is overused by WC. ok, so, why should that be and why is that a problem for you.

perhaps if u having difficulty spending alot of time developing sensitivity, relaxation, silent talk etc.

but then what is your goal? be clear what u want and all becomes clear

[Edmund]

King Monkey,

Sounds like you are reading off a brochure.

Go to the JKD school that you have in mind and see what it's like.
If it's what you are looking for, do it.

[KingMonkey]

Guys,

Thanks for all the useful comments,........... Ernie sage words as always here and in the JKD section..
Victor, no TWC school in my area, "Sparring drills and actual spontaneous contact sparring are given their due place" amen.

Censored

You are right to a certain extent, if I could find a WC school that trained the way I wanted I would be happy. But how common is this amongst WC schools ? There are 3 WC schools in my area and in my experience the problems I have are common to all of them. As for the footwork....... I think training 100% weight on the rear leg is unrealistic and obviously makes you slow, I think the forward fighting stance which lines up your front and rear legs makes you slower to sidestep and easier to off balance.

FoolID

"the 'drill' or chi sau is overused by WC. ok, so, why should that be and why is that a problem for you"

Why should this be, hmm good question I'll throw that one open to the floor, I think it's a lot to do with comfort zones....and people who train a martial art but for whom realistic fighting skills arent a primary goal but as for why it's a problem for me........

You can have the best chi-sao in the world and it doesnt mean sh*t if your first contact with an opponent is his fist hitting your chin because you never practiced watching an opponent move and reacting to this and training your WC against non WC attacks. My goal is clear, I want to learn to fight. If I wanted a hobby divorced from this I would have taken up pottery or something. Dont get me wrong I'm not discounting chi-sao as an exercise or the usefulness of the skills it aims to teach.

Edmund

You're right. My current impression of JKD is based on generalities and received wisdom hence me chucking this question out there in advance of going to a class later this week.

[foolinthedeck]

kingmonkey - thou art irrespressible!!!

even if the first contact you have in a fight is someones fist hitting your face, chi sao would be the best way to train for this. I dont know about how anyobne else does chi sao but for me i get whacked all the time and feel like rocky... no head gear or gloves, trains my face to react well to a punch, keep jaw closed etc. even if the first thing i feel is u fist, my chi sau allows me to strike back instantaneously without being shocked or having to think of a move, or set myself etc.. it just comes. thats why i fell that it is such a powerful tool

[Phil Redmond]

Kingmonkey,
I understand your frustration with WC footwork. I went through the same thing when I was full contact fighting. TWC footwork changed my mind in that regard. It is more adaptable to modern fighting styles. Also, I agree with the need to train to fight against other styles. From my 30+ years experience in WC, I have seen that "most" people only train against their WC classmates. I share space with a JKD Gym and I watch their training. The work on a lot of cardio so they are generally fit in comparision to lots of WC people who simply go to class and do forms and chi sau. Luckily for my students I emphasize fitness because of my kickboxing training. It seems that lots of WC people have as sense of invincibility. Because WC is "superior", until they are hurt by someone training in some "inferior" fighting system. Try this. Look at how fighters train and adapt you WC training to a similar regimen while maintaining WC principles. I don't see a problem with training in both systems either. I know the WC purists will slam me on this one. You can try your WC out against different types of fighters in a JKD gym. They do kickboxing, savate, thai boxing etc. My student in Toronto also shares space with a JKD gym so we both have a sense of what works against a non-cooperating opponent. Our students get the benefit.

[[Censored]]

As for the footwork....... I think training 100% weight on the rear leg is unrealistic and obviously makes you slow,

Shot in the dark...

1) You find a JKD cross step more "realistic" than a WC shuffle step (apples and oranges);
2) You have not learned the WC cross step.

Of course you don't need to find a flaw in WC, to justify training with "outsiders". But again, your criticisms thus far are of specific instructors and not of WC.

[fa_jing]

{Censored} and Ernie are correct. JKD to someone from a WC background, or any TMA background, shouldn't be much about new techniques or strategies - it's more like adding MSG to your meal, Emeril's Essence and BAM! kicking it up a few notches (:D) . A progressive or expert WC teacher could give you all of these things. My experience is that most JKD teachers have crappy WingChun, or mediocre technique in their base style. They are subject to the same downfalls of style popularity as WC, TKD, Krotty etc. McJKD, instructors with just a few years training, etc. Bandwagon riders gravitate towards JKD. But those who really know, are awesome teachers. You should pick based on who is the best teacher generally, and who YOU feel you can learn more from. If the JKD guy is legit, your Wing Chun will only improve under him/her. If your WC teacher is legit, your fighting skills will only improve under him/her.

Edit:
P.S. I studied both, from the same instructor, for over 3 years.