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TenTigers
07-26-2003, 08:04 AM
We would like to add grappling-meaniing, takedown, sprawls, mounts, passing the guard and reversals, and some submissions and chokes-nothing too involved, just basics.
The problem arises when you have to teach women, and teens. Alot of people have difficulty with close hands on grappling,(and I would have a problem teaching it) there is always the chance of an "innapropriate touch?"or uncomfortable situation. How do you teach girls, women, and teens, while keeping it comfortable?
One possibility is separating them-but that excludes alot of realism, special heavy judo gis would help, but more is needed.

Ryu
07-26-2003, 09:11 AM
Well it can be a difficult subject depending on the person. I teach women, and I usually let them know ahead of time what is being offered in the lessons. Grappling and groundfighting is extremely important for self-defense (both men and women), but yes, it becomes and issue with those who want to make it an issue. Let the girls decide for themselves if they want to partake in the grappling course. I'm sure a lot will have no problem with it. Just let them know that the course IS close contact, and much of it will be on the floor. If you keep the teaching atmosphere fun, instructional, and focused on the technical and strategic aspects of groundfighting you should be okay.
Seperating the classes so that females will grapple with females is also a good idea. However, before you do any of this, it's important that you and your instructors have a very knowledable base in grappling. Teaching basics of grappling requires a thorough understanding of the whole art. You don't necessarily have to be a black belt in BJJ, but you should have spent more than two or three years actively grappling. :)

Hope that helps.
Take care,

Ryu

HuangKaiVun
07-28-2003, 08:57 AM
You're a big strong guy in the 6 foot range, TenTigers.

I'd recommend starting off by having you grapple the females exclusively, as you are the sifu and thus have their trust.

You need to explain to them that some accidental contact will take place. Students KNOW when contact is accidental or not.

After a while, you'll figure out which males will grapple and which males will grope.

Most of the folks on KFO fall into the "grope" category, unfortunately.

Merryprankster
07-28-2003, 09:20 AM
Most of the folks on KFO fall into the "grope" category, unfortunately.

And you base this unfounded assertion on what, precisely?

Anyway,

My advice--let the women only grapple each other at first, if that's what they want (if they don't care, cool), but warn them point blank that they will eventually have to grapple with men or they'll be short-changing themselves.

fragbot
07-28-2003, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by TenTigers
The problem arises when you have to teach women, and teens. Alot of people have difficulty with close hands on grappling,(and I would have a problem teaching it) there is always the chance of an "innapropriate touch?"or uncomfortable situation. How do you teach girls, women, and teens, while keeping it comfortable?


Well, I imagine some people (male or female) won't ever be comfortable with the close contact. We only have one female who works out with us and I know for a fact (she's a good friend of mine beyond training; I initially convinced her to workout with us) she's only felt uncomfortable with one person--a guy she couldn't stand personally. And yes, periodically, you *will* get an unintentional handful. I've never asked her, but I'd wager she'd be able to tell the difference between someone working hard and, er, someone working to get hard.

FWIW, it can work the other way as well. It's never happened to me, but one of the fellas I workout with was doing newaza with a female and she grabbed his package. He thought it was intentional.


One possibility is separating them-but that excludes alot of realism, special heavy judo gis would help, but more is needed.

I'm not sure how much judo gis will help, but if you use them, make sure everyone wears a t-shirt underneath. For a simple reason, it's nasty doing groundwork over someone's sweaty chest.

If it were me, I wouldn't separate them.

HuangKaiVun
07-28-2003, 11:15 AM
Your statements show that you've never had to grapple against anybody who'd cheap shot you, Merryprankster.

Anybody who really has fought knows who'll grope even by just talking to them. We've got a lot of jerks on KFO who'll cheap shot anybody, though I won't say that you fall into that category YET (you're getting DANGEROUSLY CLOSE though).

I teach women how to grapple 6 days a week. So I'm actually doing this for a living, unlike you. "Unfounded statement" my butt.

fragbot
07-28-2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by HuangKaiVun
Your statements show that you've never had to grapple against anybody who'd cheap shot you, Merryprankster.

Anybody who really has fought knows who'll grope even by just talking to them. We've got a lot of jerks on KFO who'll cheap shot anybody, though I won't say that you fall into that category YET (you're getting DANGEROUSLY CLOSE though).


Ummm, are you using grope in the context of fondling someone for sexual pleasure? I'm pretty certain much of the discussion focuses on this meaning as opposed to the "fumbling about wildly."



I teach women how to grapple 6 days a week. So I'm actually doing this for a living, unlike you. "Unfounded statement" my butt.

From what I can tell, you just accused the majority of the people on KFO as wanting to cop a feel on their training partner. If you're going to make that accusation, I'll hafta say you know something about our online compadres that I don't. Put another way, I think that's a wholly unreasonable and extraordinary claim to make.

HuangKaiVun
07-28-2003, 12:25 PM
I seriously doubt that you train in a school that has contact combat grappling between men and women, fragbot.

Do that enough and you'll SENSE people's intentions, especially after they cheapshot you a few times on the Net or in sparring. People show their true nature sooner or later.

By the way, you've just showed me yours.

Laughing Cow
07-28-2003, 04:32 PM
IMO, Ryu and MP had the best answers.

We often got a similar problem with Push hands and similar.

Merryprankster
07-29-2003, 02:47 AM
HKV,

Yes, you're right. You can tell everything about a person's intentions over the internet, minus body language, facial expresions and situational grasp, all of which are VITAL to that little *****ly feeling that tells you this ain't goin' so hot.

Secondly, we may be working with different language. Groping to me is illicit, unwanted, intentional sexual contact. Cheap shots are just that.

I've known plenty of scummy *******s who have the guts to grope people but wouldn't dare do anything violent. But your CMA training has not only taught you to fight, it's taught you both psychoanalysis and has granted you long distance ESP!

You called "most" of the people here on KFO sexual predators and you expect I won't call you on it. Please.

I forgot what an arrogant ***** you are.

That's about the only thing I really can't stand.

Good day.

yenhoi
07-29-2003, 10:49 AM
Just for the record I will cop a feel at any opporatunity.

and this isent KFO anymore, its kungfumagazine forums!

KFO is all about REALITY COMBAT!!!

:rolleyes:

HuangKaiVun
07-30-2003, 02:30 PM
You wouldn't dare call me an "arrogant *****" in real life, MerryPrankster.

That's because before you finished your sentence, I'd be chasing you up and down trying to get a piece of you.

See, you're the exact type of coward who hides behind an Internet identity and cheap shots others. If you'll do it to ME (who'd attack you the moment you did that), you'd do it to a lesser opponent. Don't even give me that BS that you wouldn't do it in person to a female who you felt that you'd go after.

We deal with people like you all the time in this line of business.

yenhoi
07-30-2003, 02:57 PM
No you wouldent HKV.

Nobody goes around randomly attacking people for half-sentances and stays on the streets legally for very long.

I doubt you deal with MP's type in real life often. His identity is all over the net, and unlike you, he has videos of himself in action, availiable on the net. But your right, he wouldent say that in real life, because he doesnt go around picking fights with randoms. Im sure. Most pagans dont.

Why do you dig so many holes? not all threads require you to challenge and threaten people.

Get over it you snob.

Ill be in phenix some day, and Ill come check your silly school out, and Ill make smart ass comments, and I doubt you will do anything of the sort, and Im sure you can show off your skill and boast and this and that, and touch hands and threaten, and kock people over, or throw them and all your other MA magic, but your all bark man. Ill even come bail you out of jail someday if you want. Just call me up.

:eek:

HuangKaiVun
07-30-2003, 03:03 PM
Your little butt will NEVER show up, yenhoi.

My experience shows that guys like you won't dare visit, no matter how bad you think my kung fu is. As I said, we get guys like you who think they're tougher than us visiting all the time.

I'd tell you to bring your SIFU to make yourself feel safer, but I won't bother because you won't come anyway. It doesn't matter that I'm virtually local to you.

Your likelihood of visiting? 0.000000000%.

shaolin kungfu
07-30-2003, 03:05 PM
You are the dumbest person I know of, Huang.

yenhoi
07-30-2003, 03:20 PM
Sure I will. Pheonix is not far from Reno, buddy.

..and I wont be there to fight you, or prove who is tuffer. Im sure after all your years you could handle me easily. Im just pointing out how much of a loud ass, all bark, mf'er you are. Thats all. You wont do anything. You'll just show me your school, maybe touch hands, talk a little, and be a nice person. I wont bring my sifu, I dont think he will enjoy the heat, and he rarely travels ****her then sacramento from here.

It doesn't matter that I'm virtually local to you.

Sure it does. I drive ****her to eat sometimes. Ill be the skinny white dude that makes smart ass comments. We've talked before, and your school as well as I think yuanfen's school are on my list of places to check out. You still wont do a thing, except the usual that all people do that have schools everywhere, except perhaps you have some kungfu and a loud keyboard.

:eek:

bark!

HuangKaiVun
07-30-2003, 03:21 PM
Well, I went to medical school for a while and even attended Juilliard as a musician.

What makes you intellectually qualified to call ME dumb, shaolin kungfu?

Tell us all so that we can appreciate the source from which your pithy statement arose.


Hey, that's cool yenhoi.

If you come, bring clothes that can get torn up a bit and wear closed toe sneakers. I'll invite you to try my class, hands on. It won't cost you a penny.

You can STILL feel the way you do afterwards, and you can even talk about it with my students.

When the time comes, PM me and I'll send you directions from wherever you're coming.

If I understand, you do Wing Chun. You can visit Master Loewenhagen's excellent "Meng's Martial Arts of AZ" too, which is virtually up the street from me.

yenhoi
07-30-2003, 03:24 PM
What makes you intellectually qualified to call ME dumb, shaolin kungfu?

I think its the way you pound randomness and all sorts of threats and challenges into your keyboard daily on some randomnass kungfu forum.

IMO.

:eek:

HuangKaiVun
07-30-2003, 03:27 PM
You should see me in REAL LIFE, yenhoi.

You grow up as a Chinese male in this country, you will learn to issue threats and ACT on them.

I'm a lot more aggressive in real life, actually.


And before you call me dumb, remember that it's "PhOenix" and not "Phenix" or "Pheonix".

shaolin kungfu
07-30-2003, 03:31 PM
I think its the way you pound randomness and all sorts of threats and challenges into your keyboard daily on some randomnass kungfu forum.

Bingo. That, and the fact that you claim to know what posters would do in real life, going so far as to call them sexual predators. You have never met these people, so the only way you could know this is esp. To claim you can tell peoples real life actions from their online personas is, IMO, dumb.

Merryprankster
07-31-2003, 03:09 AM
Yenhoi, settle down. Huang's right. I wouldn't call him an arrogant ***** to his face. There'd be no need to since he wouldn't walk around calling everybody he met a sexual predator. Although in my experience, real tough guys keep their mouths shut, so he just might say that after all.

LOL at chasing me around... Hard to chase somebody who doesn't run. I represent myself honestly and SEEK OUT competition--never refused a match yet, win or lose. Videos and pictures of me laying it on the line (something cowards don't do--after all, they might lose) are available on the internet. Heck, soon I'll be posting a video of me losing because it was one hell of a match! (also not something cowards do). I'm more proud of that loss in total than I am in any of my wins that day.

I open myself up to criticism, critique, injury and losing about 60-100 times each year depending on my competition schedule. And I'm getting called a coward? Cute.

Need your school's address Huang. Won't be there any time soon but I'll get out to Phoenix eventually. Feel free to beat the **** out of me when I get there. Maybe I'll post it on the internet.

Alternately, you can come find me, if you're ever on the east coast. My whereabouts are pretty widely available.

yenhoi
07-31-2003, 08:28 AM
I didnt call you dumb, I called you a snob.

Your still a snob.

And before you call me dumb, remember that it's "PhOenix" and not "Phenix" or "Pheonix".

:rolleyes:

I dont think so.

:eek:

Ryu
07-31-2003, 09:47 AM
MP, can you PM me and give me some links to your matches?

Thanks. :)

Ryu

Merryprankster
07-31-2003, 11:46 AM
They're here, under videos. These are all quite old. At least two years. I like to think I'm much better now, LOL!!

http://www.apoweyn.net/martialarts/index.htm

Shaolin-Do
07-31-2003, 12:07 PM
"I'm a lot more aggressive in real life, actually."

Excessively aggressive nature is blatant expression of the inability to cope with ones feelings, and to verbalize.

Not to troll... but....

Edit: I removed that comment(for those who may have read it). It was just too low. I have a conscience.

"You grow up as a Chinese male in this country, you will learn to issue threats and ACT on them. "

Im friends with a few "chinese males" in THIS country... They call themselves... "americans". Funny idea eh? Also....
Issueing threats and acting on them in this country is what we would like to call "illegal".

LEGEND
08-03-2003, 09:50 AM
WTF??? Someone issued a challenge to MERRYPRANKSTER...being a vietnamese male who grew up on the streets of baltimore...I was taught not to mess with someone alottttttttttttttttt bigger and more experienced in the grappling and striking arts...with the rep. of training with guys like LLOYD IRVIN and winning tourneys. **** those lessons in track and field came handy!

Merryprankster
08-03-2003, 11:21 AM
I'm good, but hardly invincible. On the other hand, thanks for the vote of confidence.

Yung Apprentice
08-03-2003, 02:08 PM
I have family in Baltimore, but I'm half mexican.


This thread has gotten off subject. Can't we all just get along?:( We are supposed to talk about kicking "OTHER" pplz @sses, not fellow martial artists!!!!!:D

TzuChan
08-04-2003, 04:19 AM
With pushing hands I slip away from female hands and push the boobies by accident, they don't mind I think lol, heck I don't do it on purpose, they shouldn't allow me to slip and push them there anyway =)

Dark Knight
08-07-2003, 12:39 PM
Yen, I just left Reno. Who do you study with?


MP, Im in NOVA (Actually work here live in WV), we will have to get together. I'm a FOG (F**k'n Old Guy) but love to work out.

(Also Army, but I'll still work out with you)

yenhoi
08-07-2003, 02:32 PM
Dave Mancinni

:eek:

SevenStar
08-09-2003, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Dark Knight
Yen, I just left Reno. Who do you study with?


MP, Im in NOVA (Actually work here live in WV), we will have to get together. I'm a FOG (F**k'n Old Guy) but love to work out.

(Also Army, but I'll still work out with you)


why did I think you were in south africa?