Your job as part of your 'training'

[Weapon-Maker]

Does anyone take into consideration what your 'opponent' does for a living when sizing-up his potential as a fighter? Think about it;the toughest individuals that I have ever met,personally,in my 35 years,have all been hard-workin' blue-collar types.I was hired by National Gypsum 10-02-00 as their Team#2 'Paper-Handler'(I still program CNC's part-time),we make wall-board there,my paper-rolls weigh 3-3.5 tons each,I have to 'trim' them and roll them by hand.The 'trim' weighs 170-200+lbs,I constantly lift and walk with this heavy stuff all day while keeping 6 machines going also,I also climb ALOT of stairs and always get stuck shoveling stucco.Needless to say,my strength and stamina GREATLY improved,not to mention my tolerance to pain----:).And the guys who hang wall-board for a livin' got some strong arms,believe me.
Bottom line is : If the man busts his ass for a livin',he's strong as hell and regardless of 'fighting skill',can hurt ya, bad.I had lost a tremendous amount of strength and stamina doing machine work all these years,now the wall-board plant is fixin' that---:).
What are your thoughts on this subject?

[Celestial Amiboshi]

I think that may matter only some of the time. Blue collar workers as you described them may be very strong, but that does not necessarily equal the ability to fight effectively or to hurt you. It's easy to outwit people who greatly overestimate their own strength and underestimate yours.

Strength isn't everything. One glance at me and you'd expect me to be the last person who would participate in a martial art. I'm a university student and I have a very refined appearance about me. People are absolutely shocked when I tell them that I'm learning Kung Fu.

"Love is something which is never meant to last. It is but a flower that blooms and then withers away."

[old jong]

Sure, a strong person can defeat a weaker person and even a trained weaker person!It always depend on the circumstances.There is always a certain training involved in a physical job.You can get very powerfull arms or legs working and that can be usefull to you in many ways.

C'est la vie!

[rogue]

Anything is possible, and I'd rather fight a computer jockey than a long shoreman. But take a look at Toughman, there are some very strong powerful guys that have been dropped with a good shot up the middle.

http://www.fightingarts.com/magazine/graphics/goju-ryu08.jpg

[Weapon-Maker]

I agree that strength isn't everything,but it's **** nice to have on your side.I've fought guys that have TOTALLY over-powered me before,it's not a good thing when this happens,thank God they sucked at fighting,otherwise,I would still be in a coma. :).

[joedoe]

I guess the martial arts are often designed to help the smaller defeat the larger. Having said that, physical size and strength does often give you an advantage. The smaller or weaker fighter has to use speed, intelligence and agility to defeat a larger/stronger opponent.

-------------------------------------
You have no chance to survive - make your time.

[ansgenius1]

Something the smaller, seemingly weaker, person has on his side is the element of surprise. I am also a university student and I look like a nerd. My tolerance for pain is very high and I have a lot of repressed anger.

[Highlander]

It all depends on which age group you are talking about. Blue collar workers between the ages of 20 and about 35 can be very stong and formitable fighter. But the blue collar workers I know that are approaching or over 40 tend to be used up. They often have back and joint problem. They tend to have limitted range of motion and reduced speed. Of course this is a gross generalization. I also know older blue collar workers that are very healthy, but this is because they attend a gym or have other outside activities that help their health. Remember, stength gains occur during recovery, not activity and constant activity takes a toll

[rp]

You all talk about the strength and size of the body. Being of small stature myself it is unlikely I will attack someone.

In true fight we don't choose our opponent and we have little control of the circumstances. In these situations training and strength of MIND are important.

Think what you can do to the enemy not what he may do to you. Think of hurting them and do it. :D

[Weapon-Maker]

I'm 35,but this old man ain't over-the-hill yet. :)

[Highlander]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'm 35,but this old man ain't over-the-hill yet. [/quote]

Good for you. But I'll bet if you look arround you will see people that aren't so lucky. But then again, you haven't been doing that 5 or 6 days a week since you were 18 either. I have a neighbor that works framing houses and other construction 6 days a week and he is strong, but his overall health isn't good, back problems from lifting and shoulder problems from constant hammering. Also, his right side is much stronger than his left. He is 33. I have a brother in law that just turned 40. He has been hanging automatic garage doors since he was 18. And he is constantly saying "I don't know how much longer I can do this". Of course another common factor is they don't do anything other than their work. When the day is done it's Miller time and they just sit on their butts. So I think the key to longevity is a good fitness program, even if your job is very physical. My Sifu works construction, is in his late 40's and doesn't have these health problem, but he trains a lot.

Lastly, I'm not over the hill either. I can't be. Cause I've never been on top. ;)

[JWTAYLOR]

Welcome to class warfare.

People who work hard with thier bodies are much better fighters than people who do not. In general.

First, they are used to getting hit, falling, striking something, lifting, etc. They are used to using thier hands in different angles, they are used to bracing themselves to strike or lift harder. Getting hit will not surprise them, and hitting you will not greatly shock them either.

But there is allot more to it than that.
They are smarter.

People that work with thier hands are simply better thinkers than people who do not. They will be more likely to find a weapon, to get better position, to THINK about what they are going to do to you. They are problem solvers.

Here's a little reality test.

Which phrase would make you pause to fight,

"I'm a lumberjack", or "I program java"?

JW

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[Highlander]

ROFLMAO

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> People that work with thier hands are simply better thinkers than people who do not. [/quote]

Let me see if I got this. People that work with their hands are smarter than people that work with their minds. LOL

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>First, they are used to getting hit, falling, striking something, lifting, etc. They are used to using thier hands in different angles, they are used to bracing themselves to strike or lift harder. Getting hit will not surprise them, and hitting you will not greatly shock them either. [/quote]

Why would they be used to getting hit? I have never seen that in a job description. Job Description: Will be struck regularly. Why would they be used to falling?Job Description: No coordination required. And why would it not suprise them to strike other people.Job Description: Violent nature preferred.

None of these characteristics you have described have a direct relationship to the job. Blue collar workers are as diverse as any other group. There may be some that go out every Saturday night and look for a good brawl, but that is far from the majority. The vast majority are good hardworking people trying to raise families and improve their quality of life.

If you look at a group of brawlers, the number of blue collar workers may be high. But if you look at a group of blue collar workers, the number of brawlers is very low. The stereotype is wrong. :rolleyes:

[JWTAYLOR]

So you are saying that people who work with thier hands don't work with thier minds?
Tell that to a master mechanic, or an electrician. People who work with thier hands work with thier hands AND their minds. They have to manipulate objects in thier heads and work around real world problems while physically manipulating objects as well.

Ever work framing a house? Try it, you'll have nails fall on you, boards fall on you, dumba$ drop sheetrock on you head. You get struck on occassion. Compare this with someone who sits at a computer all day. Ever work fencing? Try pulling all of your weight on a bar to tighten the fence line when something breaks and you end up hard on your a$$ with allot of sharp metal comming at you fast. Or try working on a survey crew standing on a stump trying to ballance a 9 foot pole in your arms so the gun can get a good shot at the elevation. You fall. How often are you asked to do ANYTHING physical when you're a bank teller?

OH, and I never said they are more LIKELY fighters. I just said they would be better at it.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MO

[Highlander]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>you'll have nails fall on you, boards fall on you, dumba$ drop sheetrock on you head. [/quote]

Boards (and sheetrock) ........ Don't hit back. - Bruce Lee

Sorry, I really don't want to prolong this discussion, but I couldn't resist. :cool:

[JWTAYLOR]

:)

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[JerryLove]

I don't take into consideration my opponent's occupation because I don't know it.

That said, yes. I've met some very strong and very tough individuals just from their lifestyles. Manual laborers, cowboys. Heck, we've got WWF wrestles like Hogan and Savage around here (WWF may be fake, but the men themselves are big, powerful, and next to impossable to hurt).

[tnwingtsun]

"But the blue collar workers I know that are approaching or over 40 tend to be used up. They often have back and joint problem. They tend to have limitted range of motion and reduced speed."


True the nature of their job tends to break the
body down faster.

BUT.............

A good deal of the Boilermakers and Ironworkers
I've worked with are in the Vietnam Vet. age
and alot of them served.
Even the ones that didn't have a don't quit attitude,a high tolerance to pain and weather
and they don't react to fear and danger in the same manner as your average person.
(I know,theres other trades that have these
too)
Alot of thought and strengh go into their
jobs.
Take 5 MIT or UCLA students in their 20s and train them
in MAs for 2 years.
Now take 5 Boilermakers or Ironworkers in the 40-55 age
and train them the same way.
Put them against each other.
The students would assume room temperture
very fast.
Its a state of mind,dealing with danger on a daily
basics gives you an edge over.

[Highlander]

tnwingtsun ..... Good points, I agree completely.

[joedoe]

I understand what you are saying about blue collar workers being thinkers. I think you mean that they are more practical thinkers - they will react in the situation quicker and better than a white collar worker.

I think that all you can do is train hard, and hope that you have trained hard enough.

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You have no chance to survive - make your time.

[JWTAYLOR]

Amen brother.
JWT

[rogue]

To see how different people think on their feet check out Junk Yard Wars on TLC.

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

[JWTAYLOR]

Junk Yard Wars RULE!

I would so rule at that game. My friend and I made a potato gun that uses only an air compressor for propulsion. It can launch a potato well over 100 yards. At 20 yards it will will throw a 2' piece of rebar through a 3/4" plywood board.

Man, I'm a hick.


OH, and it's not even fair to put a boilermaker into the mix. Especially if you consider the guys that have to walk the beams as well. Tough, smart b@stards semingly impervious to pain.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MO

[This message was edited by Jon Wayne Taylor on 05-08-01 at 08:52 AM.]

[tnwingtsun]

Where can I find Junk Yard Wars ??????
I'm one of those sick boilermakers.


Tater guns???


drool.........

Sounds.........

funner than poping those sweet korean bar girls
in the arse with champane corks :D

[JWTAYLOR]

Pretty sure I caught it on ESPN2. Land of all the sports that require steel toed boots.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV