The argument to end all arguments

[Ghostface]

I've heard plenty of people say, "there is no superior martial art", "only superior martial artists." But that's b*******. I think that's something sifu's say to both protect their own art, and give credit to other arts in the process. There has to be a style of fighting that no matter how unskilled the practitioner....their odds of winning in a scuffle are at least even no matter who the opponent is. Truthfully(in your honest opinion)....what's the most dominant fighting style?

[truewrestler]

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu + Boxing + Wrestling + Judo + Muay Thai Kickboxing + San Shou + Sambo + SWAT + Fillipino Martial Arts (stick/knife) = the best martial art

anymore to add?

[Laughing Cow]

Ghostface.

Why do we have so many MA styles and not one that has all the answers?

Cheers.

[Ghostface]

quote: There has to be "a" style of fighting


"a" meaning one smarta** :)

[Ghostface]

Originally posted by Laughing Cow
Ghostface.

Why do we have so many MA styles and not one that has all the answers?

Cheers.

Good question.......


But I have the answer. We have so many MA styles because several people discovered how lucrative teaching MA could become. There may not be a style that has all the answers....but there is one that comes close to it....that's what I'm trying to figure out.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by Ghostface


Good question.......


But I have the answer. We have so many MA styles because several people discovered how lucrative teaching MA could become. There may not be a style that has all the answers....but there is one that comes close to it....that's what I'm trying to figure out.

For modern MA I would agree, but I don't think it holds true for MA that have been around for a few centuries.

[joedoe]

If there was a single art that guaranteed that for its practitioners, then it would be the only art that survived. Then, it would come down once again to the practitioner and not the art :)

[Ghostface]

Originally posted by Laughing Cow


For modern MA I would agree, but I don't think it holds true for MA that have been around for a few centuries.

Could be right......depends

[Laughing Cow]

Ghostface.

MA styles in general are NOT created to bet all opponents, but more to counter a thread that existed at that time.

Yes, they evolved and adapted to new opponents and in terms other arts evolved to counter them.

It is a chicken & egg situation.

I come up with a new style/counter/attack and someone will modify their art to counter it.

Thus I don't believe in the superiority of any art, but thing that they are more like snapshots of a given time & period.

For examples look at the UFC and how their competitors needed to adjust since it's inception.

Cheers.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Ghostface
There has to be a style of fighting that no matter how unskilled the practitioner....their odds of winning in a scuffle are at least even no matter who the opponent is. Truthfully(in your honest opinion)....what's the most dominant fighting style?

www.mindboxing.com

Like you had to ask...

[truewrestler]

http://www.wwillie.com/images/featured/gunfu1.jpg

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Ghostface
I've heard plenty of people say, "there is no superior martial art", "only superior martial artists." But that's b*******. I think that's something sifu's say to both protect their own art, and give credit to other arts in the process. There has to be a style of fighting that no matter how unskilled the practitioner....their odds of winning in a scuffle are at least even no matter who the opponent is. Truthfully(in your honest opinion)....what's the most dominant fighting style?

No. It isn't bullsh-t.

Why does there have to be "a style of fighting that no matter how unskilled the practitioner....their odds of winning in a scuffle are at least even no matter who the opponent is." What backing do you have for the idea that this is a certainty? Because to my mind, it's nothing of the sort.

I can't help thinking that you have no backing for believing this at all. You just want to believe it. And I can't really blame you for that. I suspect most of us go through that. Wanting to believe that there's one place that holds all the answers, if only we can find it. It's a very appealing idea.


Stuart B.

[norther practitioner]

Good post AP

I really truely believe it is how a person trains, not what a person trains... in our long fist classes we are training for a certain thing... long fist, in our fighting classes, we train to fight, in our weapons classes we learn weapons (traditional cma ones), sometimes we improvise, and try to pull out our concepts, we do some classes that are just technique driven. We do two man drills, etc... If I were to take out my long fist classes where I learn forms and my weapons classes, you'd find similarities to any mma, type thing. The reality of it is I really enjoy doing forms right now, they are fun to me... I do try to pull techs. right out of a form and use them, but I also understand that the forms are sensationalized, but still try to take that concept, make it mine...
Whether it on a bag, a willing person, a sparring partner, or whatever...

Now from what I understand.. you learn a punch in any ma... work it, etc... throws, do that.. don't always allow them, depends on who the sparring partner is... ground fighting, we don't do, that is the one thing I'd like to start again, but we did do some in my old cma school...

[Ghostface]

Originally posted by apoweyn


No. It isn't bullsh-t.

Why does there have to be "a style of fighting that no matter how unskilled the practitioner....their odds of winning in a scuffle are at least even no matter who the opponent is." What backing do you have for the idea that this is a certainty? Because to my mind, it's nothing of the sort.

I can't help thinking that you have no backing for believing this at all. You just want to believe it. And I can't really blame you for that. I suspect most of us go through that. Wanting to believe that there's one place that holds all the answers, if only we can find it. It's a very appealing idea.


Stuart B.

It really doesn't go that deep for me. I just believe that there is an art that's superior. What proof do you have that there isn't one?

[Ghostface]

Originally posted by norther practitioner


I really truely believe it is how a person trains, not what a person trains...

Seems sensible to me

[ShaolinTiger00]

http://www.realfighting.com/0702/danaherframe.html

[Marky]

"I just believe that there is an art that's superior. What proof do you have that there isn't one?"

The proof is in the fact that a xingyi guy can beat a BJJ guy, then the BJJ guy can beat a wing chun guy, then the wing chun guy can beat the xingyi guy.

[Ghostface]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
http://www.realfighting.com/0702/danaherframe.html

good s**t

[Ghostface]

Originally posted by Marky
"I just believe that there is an art that's superior. What proof do you have that there isn't one?"

The proof is in the fact that a xingyi guy can beat a BJJ guy, then the BJJ guy can beat a wing chun guy, then the wing chun guy can beat the xingyi guy.

That could simply be because none of those styles are superior to the other.

[Marky]

"That could simply be because none of those styles are superior to the other."

Then how does xingyi beat BJJ? How does BJJ beat wing chun? How does wing chun beat xingyi? You could say that it comes down to the martial artist and not the martial art, but that means there's no best martial art, because it comes down to the martial artist when all is said and done.

[Marky]

Ghostface, it's easy to prove that a best martial art doesn't exist by collecting every single martial art that exists (and ever will exist), and find a SINGLE CASE where it is beaten. However, you have the far more monumental task of proving that such an art DOES EXIST by finding a martial art that has never been beaten, and WILL NEVER BE BEATEN UNTIL THE END OF TIME. Which is, as we all know, an impossibility.

My point is, this is a silly discussion because it's unprovable. Let's just all think that the martial art we practice is the best and leave it at that.

[Ghostface]

Originally posted by Marky
"That could simply be because none of those styles are superior to the other."

Then how does xingyi beat BJJ? How does BJJ beat wing chun? How does wing chun beat xingyi? You could say that it comes down to the martial artist and not the martial art, but that means there's no best martial art, because it comes down to the martial artist when all is said and done.

Each style in that group was beaten by one of the other. I'm saying maybe the style that is the superior to all of them.....isn't listed in your explanation.

[norther practitioner]

The question really should be:
What is the best martial art for me?
or
What is the best martial art for what I'd like to use it for?
or
What is the best martial art for fighting in the UFC?
or
What is the best martial art to go to a competition and do well in a x or y forms event?


What do you want from the martial arts... we've done this before, but what the hey...

[ShaolinTiger00]

Ghostface,

If you liked that article, you'll probably like this one.

http://www.realfighting.com/0503/jdanaherframe.html

[Ghostface]

Originally posted by Marky
Ghostface, it's easy to prove that a best martial art doesn't exist by collecting every single martial art that exists (and ever will exist), and find a SINGLE CASE where it is beaten. However, you have the far more monumental task of proving that such an art DOES EXIST by finding a martial art that has never been beaten, and WILL NEVER BE BEATEN UNTIL THE END OF TIME. Which is, as we all know, an impossibility.

My point is, this is a silly discussion because it's unprovable. Let's just all think that the martial art we practice is the best and leave it at that.

You can't just say "leave it at that".....because there are people that would disagree.

But you have given your answer....your answer is that it's unprovable.....good. I disagree.

[Ghostface]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
Ghostface,

If you liked that article, you'll probably like this one.

http://www.realfighting.com/0503/jdanaherframe.html


good s**t in there too.

[Ghostface]

Originally posted by norther practitioner
The question really should be:
What is the best martial art for me?
or
What is the best martial art for what I'd like to use it for?
or
What is the best martial art for fighting in the UFC?
or
What is the best martial art to go to a competition and do well in a x or y forms event?


What do you want from the martial arts... we've done this before, but what the hey...

Im not saying this to answer my question......but what is the best art for fighting in UFC in your opinion?

[Marky]

Hi Ghostface,

"But you have given your answer....your answer is that it's unprovable.....good. I disagree."

Fair enough. But now I have to ask two things of you to take your position seriously:

1. Explain why you believe it's provable.
2. Prove it!

I explained through logic why I believe it's unprovable, so I want to know what logic you use to believe the "one best martial art" theory is provable. And if it IS provable, and you know how it's provable, then proving it is just a short step away.


"You can't just say "leave it at that".....because there are people that would disagree."

The reason I say "leave it at that" is because you're trying to prove something as universally true. Regretably, by that very definition, you can't have a discussion that doesn't deal with the entire universe! This is something a lot of people don't enjoy discussing, and often dismiss any evidence that pertains to it, particularly on a martial arts forum. So that when you say, "one martial art is better than all others," you're saying, "every fighting system in the entire universe (or we can say, in this case, on Earth) at any point in time has never, is not and will never be beaten by another fighting system." So technically, if you and I still existed after time ends and we could still talk, then we could look at every martial art and try to find one that was never defeated in combat, and you could say, "look, that's the best martial art!" And through this venue, we've found a course of logic so esoteric that even an internal martial arts master would not want to ponder it. And it's gotten us nowhere, because it's all speculation. Hence, I said "leave it at that."



And if you just want me to leave you alone, I can do that too. I'm not trying to get on your nerves, just debate.

[norther practitioner]

what is the best art for fighting in UFC in your opinion?
Depends... lol
If I were to try to prepare to fight in the UFC, I'd continue with my kung fu training, focusing on striking and throws via two man drills and sparring, then I'd add bjj most likely to learn more ground skills unless I found something more convincing elsewhere. So basically a mix..hmm maybe why that is mma... don't know..lol

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Ghostface


It really doesn't go that deep for me. I just believe that there is an art that's superior. What proof do you have that there isn't one?

Er, that in 18 years of training, I've never seen one style consistently beat all others. Now, there are plenty of people here with more experience than me. Poll them. I'm guessing you'll get similar results.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Ghostface
But you have given your answer....your answer is that it's unprovable.....good. I disagree.

Then prove it.

[Ghostface]

Originally posted by Marky
Hi Ghostface,

Fair enough. But now I have to ask two things of you to take your position seriously:

1. Explain why you believe it's provable.
2. Prove it!

I explained through logic why I believe it's unprovable, so I want to know what logic you use to believe the "one best martial art" theory is provable. And if it IS provable, and you know how it's provable, then proving it is just a short step away.



I can't prove it.

I'm not positive that it's true....but I'm not convinced that its completely false either.

When I made the topic I expected to get a consensus of what people here deemed the dominant art. I didn't know there would be this much resistance to the idea that one dominant art exists. Then I'd take the consensus.....compare it to other styles that I've chosen.....find out what I can about all of them.....and then reach a final decision.

After that process.....I'd give people the opportunity to find flaws in the style that I believe dominates all others.


And if you just want me to leave you alone, I can do that too. I'm not trying to get on your nerves, just debate.

Nah....it's cool man.....If I want to get the answer....I gotta listen to people that know more than I do.

[Ghostface]

Originally posted by apoweyn


Then prove it.

read above

[apoweyn]

Just did. And that's fair enough.

But given that you didn't get the answer you were expecting, and assuming that you think the answer you did get is worth anything, what's the plan now?


Stuart B.

[red5angel]

hmmm, I am completely unimpressed by the argument to end all arguments.


"Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even if you win, your still retarded." ;)

[Ghostface]

Originally posted by apoweyn
Just did. And that's fair enough.

But given that you didn't get the answer you were expecting, and assuming that you think the answer you did get is worth anything, what's the plan now?


Stuart B.

lol.......good question


Since it's hard to reach a consensus. I might have to reach a conclusion on my own.

[Shaolin-Do]

Yeah... Trying to find a perfect art form is like trying to find an alcoholic that doesnt drink.
...
:)

[Ghostface]

Originally posted by red5angel
hmmm, I am completely unimpressed by the argument to end all arguments.



It wasn't created to impress anyone

Do you have any input?

[Ghostface]

Originally posted by Shaolin-Do
Yeah... Trying to find a perfect art form is like trying to find an alcoholic that doesnt drink.
...
:)

lol

[Shaolin-Do]

Wow...
Been on the internet for 2 hours now with no one b!tching that Im supposed to be doing something.
If I woulda known it was going to take this long, I would have taken a nap!
:(
Oh well.
:)

[anton]

I believe very strongly in doing what is right for YOU.
As in life/career so in MAs... If you do something that is right for you, that you are passionate about, you will be successful.
If you do not feel any connection to hat you're doing, then you'll be whiling away your time, not training effectively, wasting potential and whole facets of natural ability that the system does not develop. Watch some training/sparring sessions try out a few systems until you find one that's right for you.

[joedoe]

If you ever determine a good answer to your question, be sure to let us all know ;)

[apoweyn]

Ghostface,


Originally posted by Ghostface


lol.......good question


Since it's hard to reach a consensus. I might have to reach a conclusion on my own.


Always a good plan, mate. :)

[red5angel]

I am just wondering abou tthe grand title and exclamation mark. I was expecting something that hadn't been discussed before, some new insight. Arguing that you believe there is one style out there somewhere that can beat all others doesn't seem to deserve that sort of attention. Any good fighter already knows that as common sense that the art is about 10% of the equation

[Ryu]

Originally posted by truewrestler
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu + Boxing + Wrestling + Judo + Muay Thai Kickboxing + San Shou + Sambo + SWAT + Fillipino Martial Arts (stick/knife) = the best martial art

anymore to add?


You mean JKD? Well I guess I'll agree with you... :(



:D

Ryu