Shaolin monk videos question

[Ground Dragon]

What do you all think of the shaolin videotapes by Shi Guolin?
What about the shaolin ten famous boxing sets sold by Wing Lam?
Are they more for demo or do they break it down and go into depth?
Just curious, I'm thinking about getting one just to check it out. It would be cool if I could get something from it besides just a demo.

[Evad]

The videos by shi guolin are pretty neat but they don't break anything down for you. They show a monk performing the routine at full speed, then they show the same shot in slow motion so you can learn what he's doing. There's usually some extra 'bonus' material at the end of the video done in the same manner, full speed then slow motion. The particular one I have is of some of the drunken stuff, at the end of the video there's what I take to be some drunken 'training' manuevers that aren't in a routine, just various monks going through warm ups or something similiar.

As far as 'training' goes, there's no instruction, just some information about each monk performing. It's not like a virtual instructor or anything, all you have to go in learning the routine is the slow motion segments. The full speed segments will show you how the routine is 'supposed' to be performed. As far as the breathing involved with the set, the applications of the routine, or any training that may be necessary for some of the moves i.e. a head kip is not covered. Maybe there's a seperate tape that covers those things but that's beyond my experience.

They are good for reference and it's always cool to watch the monks in action.

[Evad]

I have no opinion or experience with the wing lam videos though, just an afterthought....

[GeneChing]

I worked on the Wing Lam Shaolin series. And I sell the Shi Guolin series and still work with him on his articles. In fact, you'll find Guolin's videos here (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/shaolinvideos.html).

[Lohan Fury]

The videos by Shi Goulin are pretty cool. I have 2 of them. From what I can tell it's about a 50/50 shot. Some of them are performance sets and others are fighting sets. The eagle claw video seems to be performance (don't have it but have seen clips from it). It is possible to pick the forms up, but it might take some time. The hardset part is the hands... As far as the drunken sets go- If you don't have a good foundation and a good instructor to teach you how to train the advanced moves Correctly then don't try to yourself and risk serious injury. I've seen somebody do that before...

I haven't seen the Wing Lam Shaolin sets, but I have seen some of his Hung Gar stuff. He has a lot of good material IMO, but he moves better in the southern stuff, at least from what I've seen in his intro video. I actually plan on getting one of his Shaolin videos sometime soon. I'll let you know what I think when I do.

Always have to give a friendly reminder that the best way to learn is to find a qualified instructor in the style of your interest. There are a lot of people on this forum, maybe one of them would be interested in a forms "trade"? As for me, if you got a unique weapon or something and are interested in Northern Mantis/ Tan Tui just drop a few lines... That goes for all of you out there. :D

[freedom76]

I have a few of the Shi Guolin tapes. They are very good, but they don't show application. After training for awhile, you'll be able to pull application out of movements. The Shi De Cheng 3 video series is, in my opinion, a lot better than any of the Shi Guolin produced videos I've seen. I'd recommend them over the Shi Guolin to begin with.
I have a couple of the Wing Lam videos from the Shaolin set, but they are weapons (broadsword and straight sword). I haven't seen any empty hand sets. These two videos are very good for learning from. I know the straight sword video has clear applications on it versus another sword. (easily transferable to other weapons). THese videos are very professionally done, very good work.
Hope this helps.

[Ground Dragon]

Thanks for the input.
Just a couple more questions, I guess mainly for Gene, but anyone that has input, please reply.
From what little I've read, it seems there really isn't a standard curriculum for the monks. But are there any forms that are more common for one of them to know? Any forms they place greater value on for the material they contain?
And, are the famous ten boxing sets as much of a core for the shaolin monks, as say, the ten hand sets of northern shaolin are for that particular style?

[GeneChing]

Well, the first thing about Shaolin that you need to understand is that there are thousands of instructors there. Thousands. That's one of the things that makes Shaolin really exciting - you can't find that much conectrated talent anywhere else in the world. Each school had it's own curriculam. As for the temple itself, each monk has his own focus, his own specialty. So for example, Shi Guolin specializes in Iron Body. His traditional Shaolin is excellent, especially his Yijinjing. My master, Shi Decheng, specialized in drunken style, mantis and chain whip. As a point of interest, I studied Dahongquan under both monks. I studied it under Decheng over a period of several weeks and under Guolin in a one-day seminar. Decheng is small and very very quick, so in his dahongquan stomping techniques, he used the stomp to ground and generate power. In contrast, Guolin is a huge man so his stomps were more to crush someone's foot. So even in the same form, you'll find great variation at Shaolin, not to mention overall curriculams. The best answer to your question is to start with Xiaohongquan or maybe Tongbi. That is typically the entry form for all Songshan Shaolin students. Then just see where it leads you.

[Ground Dragon]

Thanks for the advice. Do the books that are sold by Wing Lam, "Shaolin Gongfu - A Course in Traditional Forms - 5 volumes", cover these forms? And if so would they be helpful at some point in the future as an additional reference? Are they useful regardless?

[freedom76]

I used the first volume of that set for xiaohongchuan, tongbei, and lianhuanchuan. It was a great source for reference. I don't really have an opinion on the other four though. I believe the Taguo school put those out.
By the way, Tiger Claw sells those books as well. Nothing against wle, but Tiger Claw ALSO sells those. Hint, hint. :)
Here is the link for the books:
http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/bslx115.html

[Ground Dragon]

Thanks! Very helpful and I didn't realize those were sold elsewhere.

[GeneChing]

I actually was the first to bring back those books - I have first editions, autographed. :cool: I initially brought them back for WLE, now I've brought more back for www.MartialArtsMart.com (see freedom76's post above.)

GD, I'm afraid I misunderstood your initial question. I worked on Wing Lam's Northern Shaolin Ten hand forms, not the Ten Famous sets of Shaolin that WLE currently imports. I still haven't seen those videos, so I can't really comment on them.

[MoiFah]

Originally posted by freedom76
The Shi De Cheng 3 video series is, in my opinion, a lot better than any of the Shi Guolin produced videos I've seen. I'd recommend them over the Shi Guolin to begin with.


Does anyone know where to buy the Shi De Cheng video set online? I remember seeing in the Wing Lam catalog a couple years ago and by the time I was ready to purchase it, they were no longer stocking it. I've searched quite a few different sites as well as Ebay from time to time looking for it with no luck.

[GeneChing]

That was a funny one. Actually, if you check out my article on Decheng back in our 2000 Shaolin special (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=152), you'll note that he had two series done on him.

The first was for the 1995 anniversary tour. The tour was put on by Austiran promoters and ended on the west coast, at the Warfield in SF (http://www.thefillmore.com/warfield.asp), a venue that I do volunteer medical for. Since I was deeply connected to Bill Graham Presents back then, I did some promtional work for that tour and got all access to the shows. Many of the monks that I knew from the Wushuguan, Sugang, Xinghao, Xinghong, Wanheng, Fulin, Maniu, they were on the tour, but not my master Decheng. However, Decheng was one those videos. Since this was the only American leg of the tour, they had produced a bunch of those videos NTSC, not PAL, and the promoter was planning to put them in storage in LA. I proposed to buy them for WLE, and brought Wing Lam's ex-wife into the picture. Well, she had never been backstage at a show before and made just about every faux pas possible, short of running on stage. She kept saying Australia instead of Austria, which infuriated the promoter. It was difficult. Nevertheless, the deal was secured. After WLE sold out of that stock, I was constantly bugging those promoters for more, but it never materialized. Just goes to show, get 'em when you can. All is impermanent. That tour was the 2nd anniversary tour, which came through in 1998 - read here for more. (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=349)

As for the second series, which covers similar material - basics and a few forms, not quite as much, but a little more in depth, it was a french production. Produced by martial artists, I thought this was the more informative of the two series, at least from the standpoint of showing applications and such. I was working on trying to get the U.S. rights and translating it a few years back, but they were asking an exhorbitant sum, more than we knew we could recoup from our prior sale statistics. I beleive that is still available in Europe, but that's about all I know about it. It was called Entrainement traditionnel du temple Shaolin, Kung Fu par le moine Shi De Cheng, done in 1999.