View Full Version : Is this true...

01-20-2001, 02:34 AM
Is it really true that people who have taken martial arts seem to get into more fights because of thier sub-conscious aggression and also because we most likely win and we think were better than them anyway. I mean I have taken four years of Wing Chun and Shao-Lin and I have been in more fights in these four years than in Mike Tysons whole career. I mean I have never actually started a fight unless aggrevated for some reason (like stupid people messing with my girlfriend,stupid drunk people who try to fight,stupid muggers who tried to robb me,and even stupid stupid people) I am proud to say that I have always fought for a good cause,but I have fought so much I think there is something wrong. Maybe people like messing around with snakes until they get bit.Maybe people underesitmate our power or maybe we have underestimated our own power. I just want some other trainers opinions.Or am I just to agressive.

01-20-2001, 06:43 AM
Liquid Juaguar,

Since you like to fight for a good cause, maybe you should put on a cape and becaome a super hero.

That way, no one can underestimate your power and you may finally attract some worthy super villians that match your skill.

All the best Liquid Juaguar. Up Up and away!!!

Ego Maximize!

01-20-2001, 08:01 AM
I have one friend who is a heck of a lot better MA than I am. I've had about 6 fights and a bunch of very minor skirmishes, while he's had zero, nada, zip. He just avoids places where he might get into trouble.

01-20-2001, 09:06 AM
Neat name Liquid Jaguar! No, Martial Artists are not prone to violence as a rule. I know of no one who mustfight on a continual basis. Usually, people who reapeatedly find themselves in violent confrontations are somehow responsible for them. Insanity can be defined as repeating the same behavior, and expecting different results.
Do you attempt to find solutions to your disagreements without resorting to violence? Do you put yourself in dangerous situations as a matter of course? Do you hang around people who are violence advocates, or places where violence occurs often (seedy bars, inner-city areas after dark etc.)?
I got the feeling from the tone of your post, that you may feel that these incidents could be handled diffrently. Answering the above questions honestly will help you to determine how responsible you are for the situations you have been involved in.
In my work as a Crisis Counselor at a Mental Health facility, violence is a daily occurance. Psychotics often can't control thier own behavior and react impulsively during crisis situations. I have restrained individuals who were trying to hurt themselves or others but I have yet to meet someone who cannot be talked out of violent acting out.
I was recently faced with a schizophrenic who was attempting to cut me with a shank he had made with a piece of broken glass. Granted, I am trained to descalate people who are in crisis, but this was a situation I had not dealt with before. I admit, I was scared. I was by myself and had only my CMA training to fall back on if he attacked. Instead, I chose to talk with him, and eventually got him to hand over the weapon.
My point is this, if I could talk down an out of control schizophrenic who actually wanted to kill me, maybe you could talk down an unskilled drunk who is looking for a fight. On the other hand, if violence is your prefered method for dealing with your anger, you have limited your options down to "kill or be killed". Believe me, you don't want to wait until you're facing a real Pro on the streets, to decide on alternative ways to handle disagreements. Please think on these things before you reallyhurt someone else...or worse yet, yourself. :(

"The essence of life is struggle and it's goal is domination. There are higher goals and deeper meanings, but they exist only within the minds of men. The reality of life is war."

01-21-2001, 10:08 PM
You train kung fu, LiquidJaguar, so you know that it's not as simple as a matter of training.

Where one lives, what one does, when one does what he does, who he does it with, and how he does it all play a part.

We don't know enough about you or your life circumstances to know if your amount of fighting is typical, above, or below that of somebody in your life's position.

02-05-2001, 06:06 PM
I'm new to this bbs and decided to post because I think your statement is correct...to a point, and touches a very interesting topic. People mostly undertake MA training with the intention of being able to defend themselves and others in a fight, not being intimidated, wrighting wrongs, and other such wholesome reasons. The problem is that these good intentions often translate to actually engaging in more fights (due to the new-found confidence, and desire for "justice"), when without MA they probably would have avoided the confrontation place etc. and generally kept themselves out of danger to begin with.
So, in that context, people that do MA seem to me as more prone to be involved in fights as they become less careful, more confrontational, less prone to backing down, less safety concious, as they rely and are bolstered by the MA.
What these people fail to see is that they have not learned the very principles of the art they practice. Firstly, the moment you fight you have already lost. We should always remember that avoidance is always preferable; nothing is safer than not fighting at all, so be willing to ignore confrontational people, avoid unsafe places, and primarily perceive and defuse a danger even before it becomes one. Fighting is truly the last resort.
I have not been in a single combat situation outside the training hall in the past 8 years; I've avoided, defused, and at times ignored, even if it meant apparently losing face. Should I care if an arrogant shallow man in a bar thinks I am a coward because I choose to walk away? Should I even want to be in a place frequented by such people?
I don't need him to know that he poses no threat to me, for to prove so I'd have to touch him, and I've learned a long time ago that if you touch chances are you'll end up smelling too ;)


02-05-2001, 06:27 PM
Challenge matches are different. Both parties know how to fight, take a hit and it's a contest of skill and pecking order, not rage and malice.

Like Master Sun says, "When you know what fighting is, you'll never want to do it."

02-06-2001, 08:21 AM
Practicing avoidance and humility are an integral part of the life of a martial artist. Sounds to me like you're not doing so hot on the "avoidance" part.

Do better. 'Nuff said.

K. Mark Hoover

02-10-2001, 04:53 AM
I've trained for over 10 years in kung fu and have not thrown a punch in anger the whole time (this obviously doesn't include tournaments). Ironically, I used to fight a lot more before I started training 8-).

I guess it is possible that because you have learned some martial arts, you are more willing to get into a fight because you feel you can handle it better now? Don't know, just speculating.

unclaimed effort
06-04-2001, 04:51 AM
Not a martial artists fault, unless you have shown anybody that you know some form of martial arts. Because, they probably want to test you by beating you up(or trying). If you fight back though this will only lead you to many more series of fights. Someone that is good at martial arts, can usually take hits or gain it from practice,in fact i consider this to be my trademark, with that skill just take what they got, put on a small monkey act and say you don't know how to fight or something. Don't make a big thing out of it. Fighting in martial arts was only used in life or death situations. This works some of the times only though, but in my encounters it works well. (of course, talking to them is important too, sometimes it stops there and sometimes it doesn't you can't rely on everybody not to be aggressive enough not to take it further) :)

If two tigers fight, the result will be one injured tiger.

Stillness in stillness is not real stillness. Stillness in motion is real stillness.

06-04-2001, 09:58 PM
Well, it seems you have proven to yourself that you can handle a scuffle. Now, can you become so good that you don't even need to fight? Can you understand the mind of the aggressor, intercept his intent, and neutralize it without even having to strike? That is the greater challange.

06-04-2001, 10:25 PM
Make sure others see your cause as equally benevolent.

Some people exude "tension" once they begin training. Bruce Lee called it the Warrior's Intention. You have to learn to "turn it off" when outside the school. That doesnt mean to be inattentive but dont walk around with the eyes of a fighter. Chicks dont like that anyways. Soften them up a bit. =p Maybe thats why the fighting monks were celibate? =p Hehe. I know what you are talking about tho.

unclaimed effort
06-06-2001, 01:21 AM
I agree with you. I learned this also but it's not that simple a challenge to overcome. In the streets, when you encounter a challenge usually the opponent is blinded with anger or fighting rage. In this case, i have to remind myself of the quote: 100 victories in a 100 battles is not the greatest challenge, subduing your opponent without fighting is the greatest challenge. :)

If two tigers fight, the result will be one injured tiger.

Stillness in stillness is not real stillness. Stillness in motion is real stillness.

06-11-2001, 02:32 PM
Sounds like we have a true vigilante here,anyone who has the balls to defend themselves or others is all right by me.Good work Liquid Jaguar,look out for the repercussions of 'pay-back'.

06-16-2001, 12:52 AM
be prepared for *pay back* as it were.

Not only for you but your family. I live in a bit of a dodgy area. I'm not so worried about myself. But my brothers and the house and the family. They can easily harass my dad or worse my mum :(.

Then that will be bad. So just watch out for that. Its nothing you can do but they can attack the people you love.

"Bye 4 now; not 4 ever"

06-30-2001, 02:35 AM
I would suspect that you enjoy partying. Clubbin', parties, what not. Well the more uncontrolled and unfamiliar an environ is the more chance there is for chaos to occur. If you want to party make sure it's in a controlled atmosphere with people that you know and have mutual respect for. FizUCK the clubs. If you wanna dance or drink have the get together at your house or girlfriend's house (I'm assumuing you have one) and party with her. You have the entire dancefloor to yourself, plus the boudoir is close-by!

Plus, the final level of MA training is mental control of yourself and/or adversary. To alleviate the adversary variable, don't be where the knuckleheads frequent! Liability is also a problem with multiple altercations, so be cool, and careful.

Until Satan's **** (alcohol) is outlawed (never!), these are but a few of the ways you can solve this perplexing dilemma. Bruh', I feel you 'cause I've been a DJ since 1982 and have seen my share of idiots refusing to act like human beings (especially in the Philippines). I think you'll do tha' right thang...Peace-a-Hut!!!

06-30-2001, 11:04 PM
In my experience. Many beginners (1-2 years training) tend to be a little more agressive, as they somehow wants to prove their abilities to themselves. But this usually blows over.
You will notice that at some point or another you get the mental surplus from knowing that most likely the guy next to you will stand no change in a real fight.
take me for instance. When I was a Wee lad :), I use to live by the rule "take him out, before he takes you out". This meant that whenever I was in a potentially hostile situation, I would react very quickly and violently.
Now I find that I am able to keep calm and often smiling in these situations. This has diffused a lot of tensions, and I have not been in a real fight for the last 6-7 years.

07-01-2001, 12:18 AM
Aviod stupid places and people.
You'll save yourself money and skin.

07-22-2001, 04:30 AM
LiquidJaguar, Martial Arts is not for showing off, it's for defending yourself when times are worse, self discipline, excercising, and even healing. The only people who take martial arts and show it off are people who are very untrained. It's best that you should show off your skills at the right times. I am a martial artist and people despise me because they think I am not good at fighting back

Come, visit me and my floating island of serenity.. the Kingdom of the Winds..

07-22-2001, 02:06 PM
I can accept that most of you guys have trained to such a level that you can overcome any attack (verbal or physical) on you personally.

But what about your loved ones? The ones that can't defend themselves.

If something terrible happened to them as a result of some idiot's actions, what then?

Be honest people, there are SOME situations where you guys would strike out. It's only human.

"My twa boab"

07-23-2001, 01:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I can accept that most of you guys have trained to such a level that you can overcome any attack (verbal or physical) on you personally.
But what about your loved ones? The ones that can't defend themselves.

If something terrible happened to them as a result of some idiot's actions, what then?

Be honest people, there are SOME situations where you guys would strike out. It's only human.

"My twa boab"


Of course you'd have to do that, but that's not showing off your "skills", would it? It'd be USING your skills.

Come, visit me and my floating island of serenity.. the Kingdom of the Winds..